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Birthright citizenship - Yrump strikes again Options
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 3:20:50 PM
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Trump has said that he considers birthright citizenship ridiculous, and iss looking into abolishing it

For once, I agree with Trump that birthright citizenship is ridiculous. Why a baby born to a woman who just happens to be in a country that is not her own should automatically have a right to citizenship of that country seem bizarre.

However, Trump seems to have overlooked the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, states clearly "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside". There is nothing the President of the USA can do to change this, though the amendment can legally repealed (not by the President).
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 3:55:41 PM

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-tourism-brings-russian-baby-boom-miami-n836121



The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
L.Rai
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 6:21:05 PM

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I believe the US is the ONLY country that grants citizenship to someone born on US soil. Let's not forget that the 14th amendment was specific, and really should be appealed because it no longer applies to the situation for which it was enacted or the people it was meant to protect. I do not believe that more than 100 years ago when that amendment was passed anyone foresaw how it would be abused.

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
thar
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 10:26:20 PM

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There was a similar problem in the Republic of Ireland. Because of the complexities of the relationship with Northern Ireland, the rule was made that if you were born "on the island of Ireland" you had citizenship in the Republic. It was intended as a 'right of return' for Catholics in Northern Ireland, but much later it got spotted and exploited. Which resulted in Nigerians (and others with no relationship to Ireland) getting on planes when they were too pregnant to deport, turning up in Ireland, having a baby and claiming Irish citizenship for the baby, giving them the right to remain. Then use their EU rights to move to the UK or elsewhere. God knows how many babies died or had health complications because their mothers flew late in pregnancy, hiding it until they got to Ireland, all because if the citizenship attractor.

Quote:
Dramatic increase in the number of babies born to non-nationals

IN THE past six months, more than 1,200 asylum-seekers have been granted permission to stay in Ireland following the birth of children here more than twice the rate of last year, new Department of Justice figures reveal.

The dramatic increase in the numbers of non-nationals more than 40 per cent of them from Nigeria having babies born within the State this year comes as Minister for Justice John O'Donoghue signed a controversial "readmission" deal with the Nigerian government that will speed up deportations of failed asylum-seekers.

Refugee lobby groups accused the Government of "bribery" and linked the success of the agreement with Lagos to the offer of an Irish aid package worth more than £8m to Nigeria. The Government rejected the criticism as unfounded.

The new figures emerged as immigration authorities were accused of treating asylum-seekers as "subhuman" by the Irish Anti-Racism Campaign after a heavily pregnant Nigerian woman was put on a ferry back to Britain just hours after she was discharged from a maternity hospital on Friday.

The woman travelled from Nigeria without documentation via Britain to Dun Laoghaire and told officials that her waters had broken and she was in labour. She was given a Garda escort to Holles Street Hospital, where after medical examination it was discovered she was not in labour, and she was discharged. She was immediately brought back to Dun Laoghaire and placed on the return ferry.

Last year, 1,515 foreign nationals, more than 900 of them asylum-seekers, were granted permission to stay in Ireland because of the birth of children. This appears to support claims that many asylum-seekers are taking advantage of Ireland's status as the only country in the EU which gives automatic citizenship to children born here. The follow-on from that constitutional right is that the child born here also has the right to the care of its parents. Because the child has the right to stay in its country of birth, so do its mother and father. The numbers have increased substantially and look likely to more than double in 2001, with 1,252 asylum-seekers granted permission to stay in the first six months of this year because of the "birth" clause.

Between 1995 and 2000, nearly 9,000 people from Nigeria applied for asylum in Ireland. So far just 45 have been granted refugee status while 3,200 have been refused. About 500 have been served with deportation orders.

The remainder are either still having their applications processed, have left the jurisdiction, disappeared from the system or their circumstances have changed because they had babies here.

Campaigners for the rights of refugees and asylum-seekers point out that many of those arriving in Ireland are in their mid-20s, the age when most women give birth, and that many have been in Ireland for years waiting for their applications to be decided.

But the dramatic increase in births has led to growing pressures on the country's maternity hospitals, particularly in Dublin where the problem has been compounded by a shortage of midwives.


Tragically, pregnant women who are seeking asylum or refugee status have a rate of perinatal mortality more than three times higher than the general population. A major contributory factor to this figure is the number of non-nationals giving birth in Irish maternity hospitals within hours of arriving in the jurisdiction, which means they have had no ante-natal care where possible complications might have been spotted.




Quote:
The Maternity Care Needs of Refugee and Asylum Seeking Women in Ireland
Patricia Kennedy, Jo Murphy-Lawless First Published April 1, 2003 Research Article

Abstract
This article presents some of the findings from the original research carried out with asylum seeking and refugee women in Ireland who were pregnant or who had recently given birth. The explosion in numbers in Ireland from 1998 onwards has been such that this group now comprises more than one in five of every birth in the country's three major maternity hospitals, all based in Dublin. The article explores the background reasons for the major increase in recent years of this group of women. It discusses the difficult circumstances encountered by women who must engage with a system of maternity care unused to such complex needs, amidst a general policy climate of uncertainty and even hostility towards asylum seekers. The research findings contribute to the feminist literature on maternity and challenge us to examine the way in which globalization is impacting on women as mothers and the need for challenging Western states anew on the development of a more coherent model of maternity care in response to the needs of such women.


In 2004 the Irish public voted to remove that automatic rightby birth because it was being abused, causing suffering and overloading maternity services with complex cases.

ROI has generous heritage citizenship rights anyway it is probably no problem for someone from NI to prove their right to it.

Following some high profile deportations, there is now a move to restore certain rights if a baby is born there and lives there for three years. But the government is against it because it fears illegal immigrants in Britain will move to Northern Ireland for three years to get Republic of Ireland cutizenship !

Quote:
Should it be enacted, the proposed law would grant the right to citizenship to any person who is born in Ireland and subsequently lives in the country for three years, regardless of the parents’ citizenship or residency status. It would largely reverse the effect of 2004 referendum in which 79 percent of voters supported the removal of a constitutional provision granting citizenship to anyone born in Ireland.

L.Rai
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 1:16:14 AM

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Thar:

Thanks and I thought only the US had this stupid rule...The Chinese women who give birth in the US or Canada (which I believe also does this) call the child an "anchor baby" because it will later provide an "anchor" for the "family" to return to the US or Canada when the child chooses to attend college.

The other problem is they use resourced that citizens rightfully should get. So an anchor baby can attend college in the US as a citizen and they won't pay non-resident fees. Often they are not fluent in the language (English)so they require ESL courses plus they can qualify for resident tuition grants like PELL grants. NONE of these things (other than ESL courses) are available to Chinese students who were born in China.

I could go on for days why this is stupid and was NEVER part of the intent behind the 14th amendment...nor the law in Ireland, these loop holes need to be closed and other means developed to help people who wish to migrate and claim other citizenship.

Lastly, when my grandparents came to the US they did so legally, then spent 25 years working and contributing to their new country and finally they became "naturalized" citizens. Yes, they had two children born in the US, but both spoke English, were raised to work, and not ask for handouts. They did not develop an entitlement attitude that seems to permeate the culture today.

I will now get off my soapbox! Whistle

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
BobShilling
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 2:54:44 AM
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L.Rai wrote:
I believe the US is the ONLY country that grants citizenship to someone born on US soil.

True, but a lot of countries grant citizenship to people born on their soil. Whistle

There's a list here.
L.Rai
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:23:14 PM

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Dear Bob:

Thank you...but the link was wonky for me, so here is the list for anyone that cares:

• Antigua and Barbuda • El Salvador • Paraguay
• Argentina • Fiji • Peru
• Barbados • Grenada • Saint Kits and Nevis
• Belize • Guatemala • Saint Lucia
• Bolivia • Guyana • St Vincent / Grenadines
• Brazil • Honduras • Tanzania
• Canada • Jamaica • Trinidad and Tobago
• Chile • Lesotho • Tuvalu
• Costa Rica • Mexico • United States
• Cuba • Nicaragua • Uruguay
• Dominica • Pakistan
• Ecuador • Panama


So 34 countries have this type of "law" but if you look closely only a couple are "anchor baby" magnets. I have yet to see anyone rushing to Argentina or Pakistan to claim citizenship.

Once again...this loop hole had its purpose way back when...it no longer applies, we need to close the loop hole.

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:26:50 PM

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I agree, L.Rai. Change the rules.

It also bugs me when people meet all the rules to become a Canadian citizen but have no intention of living in Canada. They go back to their real home to live after attaining CDN citizenship. But then if anything happens where they are living they expect Canada to send planes to rescue them. This has happened and they bitched that Canada was not fast enough to suit them.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
thar
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 3:34:52 AM

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I know this is the politics section, all serious, but if I may add a bit of a lighter note.
It works the other way, too.
Cricket is very big in Yorkshire. The cricket system is you come up through your village teams, then a bigger team, then the county - but only Yorkshire had a rule that you had to be born in Yorkshire to play for them.
There are stories of cricket-mad fathers driving their pregnant wives back to Yorkshire to make sure they gave birth there! (It is only a county, the only border is a roadsign.)
As cricket became more professional and big-money, they had to relax it to get the best players. It was relaxed to having been educated in Yorkshire, then removed altogether. It was seen as a betrayal by some, losing the proud tradition of the county.

Quote:
Yorkshire put themselves at a disadvantage from 1968 until 1992 by insisting that all its players must have been born within the historic county boundaries of Yorkshire while all the other county teams strengthened themselves by signing overseas Test players. In 1992, the birth qualification rule was first modified to include those educated within the county, a dispensation that allowed Michael Vaughan to play; and was then abandoned altogether. Yorkshire's first overseas player that season was 19-year-old Sachin Tendulkar.[79]



But people do see the funny side. How ridiculous it is to mix up heritage with geography.
The date (and time) is the giveaway in this article, for anyone wondering why it was written. Whistle

The Yorkshire Post
Quote:
Tyke that – Fiery Fred's revealed as Lancashire's most famous son
Published: 23:29
Monday 31 March 2003

FREDDIE Trueman, one of the world's most famous Yorkshiremen, was "in shock" last night after discovering he was actually born in Lancashire.
Friends of the cricket legend said he was left "dismayed and depressed" at the alarming truth about his birthplace.

Now the former England fast bowler, known throughout the game as "fiery Fred", is taking legal advice after discovering he should never have been allowed to play for his beloved Yorkshire.

Mr Trueman, aged 72, has believed all his life that he was born in the tiny village of Stainton, near Doncaster, as well as brought up there. His late mother and father Ethel and Allan Trueman always told him he was born in the family's back bedroom.

But his world fell apart last week after he discovered his long-lost birth certificate wedged at the back of his underwear drawer.

Former Prime Minister Harold Wilson may have called him the greatest living Yorkshireman; but the certificate showed his place of birth as the Pennine township of Rawtenstall, five miles the wrong side of the Lancashire border.

Only after questioning relatives did he uncover the dark secret the Trueman family had kept since the night the infant Freddie was smuggled into their house just a few hours old.

England's greatest-ever fast bowler had in fact been born on the day of the annual charabanc trip from Stainton to Blackpool.

Apparently, the excitement of seeing the Illuminations for the first time sent Mrs Trueman into labour a few days early and an attempted dash back across the Pennines to ensure a Yorkshire birth proved futile. Bad weather in Todmorden forced the bus to turn back and the baby was delivered by a GP at his surgery in Rawtenstall.

Yorkshire County Cricket Club only relaxed its qualification rules in the early 1990s and until then followed a strict tradition that only players born within the old county boundaries could play.

Now there are fears that die-hard Yorkshire supporters could try to claim back the 9,000 raised for the star in his 1962 benefit.

A despondent Mr Trueman said last night: "I'm completely devastated. Err, I mean, what is going off? My mother and father were proud Yorkshire people and didn't want their son growing up knowing he was a Lancastrian.

"When I came to the attention of coaches at Headingley in my teens it was too late to change tack and they just kept up the story.

"I'd always wondered where my birth certificate was. Then last week I saw this bit of paper wedged behind a string vest at the back the old Chesterfield my parents left me. When I unfolded it and read what it said it was like a smack in the mouth.

"This is a terrible shock and if you don't mind now I need to be alone with my family."

Frederick Sewards Trueman was the first England bowler to take 300 wickets in his international career and took 1,745 wickets in 459 matches for Yorkshire.

A family friend Rolf Palio said Mr Trueman would be seeking expert counselling and possibly a course of "county realignment therapy".

"It will start with them getting him to eat a little hotpot and listen to Gracie Fields records," he said. "Later they'll move onto more difficult things like seeing the other fellow's point of view and declining a free drink."

Mr Trueman's former Yorkshire team mate Bob Platt, formerly Yorkshire County Cricket Club's cricket chairman, said: "We are very disappointed. It means, of course, that Fred's name will have to be expunged from the all the club's records. It will be as though he never played. Some of us did have our suspicions even in his playing days. We thought there was something wrong when we saw him in the showers."

A spokesman for the club said: "Our thoughts are with Fred and his family at this difficult time".

His wife Veronica is standing by him.





L.Rai
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:33:58 PM

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Hope:

China has put an end to it...if you hold dual citizenship (which China doesn't recognize) and you enter on your Chinese passport when you come, then your "other" passport will not be valid.

Embassies of dual countries have been informed of this and the US sent out a warning to dual passport holders (Chinese) warning them that if they enter China on their Chinese passport and later get into trouble...too bad.

You can't play it both ways...sorry.


Thar:

Sad story for the poor old man...hope he gets help...

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 11:57:52 PM

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Thanks for the info, L. Rai. So if they go into China using their CDN passport then they must no longer be Chinese citizens if China doesn't recognize dual citizenship. China makes them choose. Good. Canada's Liberals are too soft sometimes.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
L.Rai
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:15:27 PM

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Hope:

China has told it's "Citizens" if you enter China on your China passport and then get into trouble, you are Chinese and don't ask your "other" country to bail you out. The US agrees and has told "dual" holders that ONLY if they enter China using their US passport can they ask for US help. It's sort of made people think twice about playing the "dual" game.

LR

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
Romany
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2019 5:28:59 PM
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L. Rai,

I'm curious. As you may remember, I used to live in China too, so I'm curious about why, in your response to Hope you put the word "citizen" in inverted commas?
L.Rai
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 1:27:23 AM

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Romany:

I did that because the people who "play" this game want to be Chinese when it is a benefit to them and then claim the other country when that benefits them. The Chinese government has decided to put an end to this game.

Therefore "citizen" hmmm, which country? I know what I mean by that term. I am a US Citizen who lives abroad at the mercy of my host country who can kick me out without any reason and without warning. I will go back to the US at that point but I am not now or ever will be a Chinese citizen. Even if China were to grant me "resident" green card status, I will not be a citizen and I have NO citizen rights.

It's humorous, I do pay taxes here, but I get No benefits. However in the US illegals pay no taxes and can access many benefits that should be given to citizens only. I am not by any means saying this to be hurtful...just truthful. If the US took a page from China in regards to non-citizens maybe things back home would calm down. Again, just my 2 cents.

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 5:54:42 AM
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Thank you L.Rai - now I understand where you're coming from and what you meant.
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