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Essay number 10 Options
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:56:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
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Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
I'd appreciate it if you could point out some of the mistakes I made.

N.B. It's not homework.

Bungee jumping is an extreme sport in which some people attach one side of an elastic cord to themselves via a harness and the other side to a platform of high altitude, like a bridge. It is indeed extreme as it appears to be a sort of suicide attempt at first glance.

Humans have long been interested in sports and athletic activities. The Olympic Games actually date back to Ancient Greece in 776 B.C. That means we are intrinsically into sports and being challenged. Health improvement seems to be just one benefit of sports. They in fact provide entertainment, job opportunities, and a fertile ground for the prosperity of those who are highly talented at sports.

But over the past two or three decades, a new set of sports have gained currency: extreme sports. They have actually been developed to push the participants to extreme and dangerous levels. But why are some people attracted to such dangerous activities? Mark Musgrave, an extreme windsurfer says that it’s not a question of the activity per se; it’s a question of attitude. “Such sports don’t attract the masses,” he explains “and that in itself appeals to the minority who take up these sports.” According to Musgrave, in extreme sports you not confined by any rule; there is not right or wrong, and you’re never crowded by people.

Most extreme sports seem to have been built upon ordinary sports. For example, a biker can go extreme if he rushes down a steep rocky mountain path piloting his bike. Some of them have also been developed from scratch, like sky surfing.

Some people are, however, against such sports and argue they are too dangerous and believe extreme-sport people should be protected against themselves. On the other hand, the proponents of these sports propose that resorting to such different activities is a way out of today’s globalized, homogenized world where people find very few opportunities to escape the sameness that has brought about a monotonous life.



Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:09:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 33,008
Neurons: 205,635
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I know thar's also looking at this.
I read through the entire essay without any "hesitations" or difficulty.
I'll look now in more detail, but so far it is very good.
Applause Applause

****************
It would seem more natural to me to say "one end of an elastic cord" rather than "one side of . . ."

***************
there is not right or wrong, and you’re never crowded by people.
I would say "there is no right or wrong,. . .."

************
That's all I see - just a couple of choices of word. I don't spot any grammar problems.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
thar
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:18:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 20,448
Neurons: 82,650
I will just highlight things that don't sound right. Blue for 'sounds unnatural' red for 'wrong' (including punctuation).
I will try my best not to correct because that is your learning process.

Atatürk wrote:
I'd appreciate it if you could point out some of the mistakes I made.



N.B. It's not homework.

Bungee jumping is an extreme sport in which some people attach (edit) one side of an elastic cord to themselves via a harness and the other side to a platform of high altitude, like a bridge. It is indeed extreme as it appears to be a sort of suicide attempt at first glance.

Humans have long been interested in sports and athletic activities. The Olympic Games actually date back to Ancient Greece in 776 B.C. That means we are intrinsically into sports and being challenged. Health improvement seems to be just one benefit of sports. They in fact provide entertainment, job opportunities, and a fertile ground for the prosperity of those who are highly talented at sports.

But over the past two or three decades, a new set of sports have gained currency: extreme sports. They have actually been developed to push the participants to extreme and dangerous levels. But why are some people attracted to such dangerous activities? Mark Musgrave, an extreme windsurfer says that it’s not a question of the activity per se; it’s a question of attitude. “Such sports don’t attract the masses,” he explains “and that in itself appeals to the minority who take up these sports.” According to Musgrave, in extreme sports you not confined by any rule; there is not right or wrong, and you’re never crowded by people.

Most extreme sports seem to have been built upon ordinary sports. For example, a biker can go extreme if he rushes down a steep rocky mountain path piloting his bike. Some of them have also been developed from scratch, like sky surfing.

Some people are, however, against such sports and argue they are too dangerous and believe extreme-sport people should be protected against themselves. On the other hand, the proponents of these sports propose that resorting to such different activities is a way out of today’s globalized, homogenized world where people find very few opportunities to escape the sameness that has brought about a monotonous life.


notes
BC is not "wrong", but BCE is now standard. (Before Common Era, because dating everything from Before Christ is not considered inclusive now). And CE instead of AD, because that is also Christian - Anno Domini.
This is not a big deal, but you might as well write it in the modern way, rather than appear old-fashioned, and possibly incorrect in some contexts.

into sports and being challenged. Nothing wrong with the two parts (although 'into' is very informal. ) But they don't match (noun and gerund), so it feels wrong to link them with the simplest conjunction. It feels like they need to be separated a little more - they are not similar constructions.

The sports have been developed to push the participants - it sounds like they don't have a choice. The people involved developed these sports themselves. Not some unknown external force.

Watch the 'he' to refer to human beings. That is not generally acceptable nowadays, because there is a perfectly good alternative. Yes - women ride bikes!

them - watch your precedents.

watch your conjunctions. The reader shouldn't have to stop and work back to see what the 'and' joins together. If it is more complicated than x and y, you need to use punctuation.

style - watch out for long sentences with lists of adjectives. Punctuate or add different constructions (participles etc) or it just goes on without a break. (Read it out loud - if you run out of breath before the next comma or full stop, your sentence is too long!)

As you can see some of these are style points (which is why I explained them). The bits I highlighted are choice of vocabulary or the way it is put together. But overall it is very readable and the vocabulary is appropriate.


Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:24:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Thanks a million Dragon.

Here's the revised edition based on your comments:

Bungee jumping is a sport in which some people attach one end of an elastic cord to themselves via a harness and the other side to a platform of high altitude, like a bridge. It is indeed extreme as it appears to be a sort of suicide attempt at first glance.

Humans have long been interested in sports and athletic activities. The Olympic Games actually date back to Ancient Greece in 776 B.C. That means we are intrinsically into sports and being challenged. Health improvement seems to be just one benefit of sports. They in fact provide entertainment, job opportunities, and a fertile ground for the prosperity of those who are highly talented at sports.

But over the past two or three decades, a new set of sports have gained currency: extreme sports. They have actually been developed to push the participants to extreme and dangerous levels. But why are some people attracted to such dangerous activities? Mark Musgrave, an extreme windsurfer says that it’s not a question of the activity per se; it’s a question of attitude. “Such sports don’t attract the masses,” he explains “and that in itself appeals to the minority who take up these sports.” According to Musgrave, in extreme sports you are not confined by any rule; there is no right or wrong, and you’re never crowded by people.

Most extreme sports seem to have been built upon ordinary sports. For example, a biker can go extreme if he rushes down a steep rocky mountain path piloting his bike. Some of them have also been developed from scratch, like sky surfing.

Some people are, however, against such sports and argue they are too dangerous and believe extreme-sport people should be protected against themselves. On the other hand, the proponents of these sports propose that resorting to such different activities is a way out of today’s globalized, homogenized world where people find very few opportunities to escape the sameness that has brought about a monotonous life.

Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:26:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Thank you so much thar; I've just seen your reply. I'll apply the points you mentioned and will post the revised essay.

Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:07:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Thar, if you agree, I will do one paragraph at a time?
I'll highlight the rephrased areas in red.
Thank you again for your precious help.

First paragraph:


Bungee jumping is an extreme sport in which some daredevils attach one end of an elastic cord to themselves via a harness and the other side to a high platform, like a bridge. It is indeed extreme as it appears to be a sort of suicide attempt at first glance.


If it's okay, please let me know and I will go to the next paragraph.


Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 3:30:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 33,008
Neurons: 205,635
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Ha! Thar was a lot more thorough than I was.

I read it as a "native speaker" and found it clear and understandable - especially after you changed that couple of points.

However, I do understand his points. If an English student read the passage, it would be difficult - particularly due to his point "watch your precedents".
(If you really analyse the last paragraph literally - as some learners do - without simply reading it and understanding immediately, it could look as if you are saying that people who are against these sports are dangerous.)

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 12:31:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Thank you.

The second paragraph:


Humans have long been interested in sports and athletic activities. The Olympic Games actually date back to Ancient Greece in 776 BCE. That means we are intrinsically interested in sports and like being challenged. Health improvement seems to be just one benefit of sports. They in fact provide entertainment, job opportunities, and a fertile ground for the prosperity of those who are highly talented in sports.

Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
thar
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 2:32:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 20,448
Neurons: 82,650
Atatürk wrote:
Thar, if you agree, I will do one paragraph at a time?
I'll highlight the rephrased areas in red.
Thank you again for your precious help.

First paragraph:


Bungee jumping is an extreme sport in which some daredevils attach one end of an elastic cord to themselves via a harness and the other side to a high platform, like a bridge. It is indeed extreme as it appears to be a sort of suicide attempt at first glance.


If it's okay, please let me know and I will go to the next paragraph.



The problem is 'some'.

You don't need it. The plural without article means both all or some, depending on context.
Eg
Cats eat meat - in general, all cats

In the garden there is a patch where cats like to sit
-that doesn't mean all cats, it means some cats choose to sit there, because they like it. Not all cats. Just the cats that like to do that.but cats, not dogs.


So the same with your line.
'x is a sport where people attach....
Is correct.
But
X is a sport where some people attach...
Is wrong. It just feels wrong, but if you want an analysis, if you have some people that do attach a cord, then that suggests that you have other people that don't attach a cord.
That doesn't end well! And it is not what you mean.
Or if 'some people' do it, then that is a group of people, a crowd doing it, all with one cord. You mean individual people doing it, and that is just the noun. People do it.


End yes (side-side is shorter distance, end-end is longer distance, so a rope really only has ends.
Platform yes, that works.


Romany
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 3:25:33 PM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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OK, so I would have marked the points above too - but now I have one more point - nothing to do with grammar or vocab - but with bunjee.

People don't attach a bungee cord to themselves. It's attached to the harness. And they don't attach it themselvese.The main ring is at the back, so it would be extremely difficult to do it oneself. Both the connecting rings, and the harness itself, have to be checked by someone else. With a sound bunjee and harness it's not dangerous. But any mistake or worn patch, or a ring starting to detach, i.e. something the jumpers can't see because its behind them, could be fatal.

And...argh! No matter what Thar says, I'm saying WHY? Why on earth did you change plain, simple "people" to a hyperbolic, somewhat outdated, unsuitable (because of its connotations and because no English-speaker would refer to a bunjee jumper like that unless they were about 80 years old, or sarcastic!) word like "daredevil"?

I know that a "good" sentence in Russian is the one that can go on the longest without a pause. It's considered a skill. Is Turkish like that? It's the complete opposite to English. A "good" sentence in English is as short as it can be. A 'rule of thumb' is to write something - a sentence, a para. a page - and then reduce it by one third each time you write. One learns, that way, what is unnecessary and what is just burbling.

Also, In Russian & in Chinese, using 'big words' 'inkhorn terms' specialist jargon,formal terms instead of those used by everyone else, obscure words, hyperbole, are all seen as admirable and a person is regarded as a scholar who does this. Is it the same in Turkish in this regard? Once again, it's the complete opposite in English.

People who do this, in English are called 'wankers', 'tossers' and 'pretentious gits'.

The aim of mastering the English language is to be able to master communication. With anyone. In the clearest way possible. Consider the two story openings below:

"It was a bright and sunny day two days ago, which is remarkable considering the weather we are having to-day. I had been at University all day but I got home at about 6 o-clock and realised that I hadn't really had any excercise all day and that I had been stuck inside all day without a single breath of fresh air so I decided that I couldn't sit down again to study until I had stretched my legs and taken a few gulps of the summery air and done something completely different to sitting in one place hunched over my books which seemed to be how I spent my whole life these days, and I knew that could not be good for me. Our local shopping centre can be reached through a small wood where squirrels and birds are always busy and so I decided then that I would go for a walk to the shops and choose something that I don't usually buy (which is only usually noodles and textbooks) at the same time. As I reached for my jacket I suddenly had the random thought that my mother too, might want to get out of the house for a while, or to get something at the shops herself. So as she walked past the of the passage-way I called out and told her of my plans and the reason I wanted to get out of the house and she agreed that sitting hunched over my books all the time wasn't good for my health - although, being my mum she also added it wasn't good for my posture, so I told her that her posture might also benefit from a leisurely walk and perhaps herself buying something crazy too - chocolates, a new book, bubble-bath - and asked her if she would like to come along with me so we could both do it together."

Now, compare it to this:

"Coming to the shops with me Mum?" I called out as I snatched my jacket up.

Which do you think is the better of the two?

I'm almost sure that Gowers "The Complete Plain Words" would, by now be available on-line: - even "The Penguin Guide to Plain English" (Harry Blamires)might be by now, too. You really should get hold of at least one of those to help you with writing English. Not just because you're a learner, but because everyone should do: there are plenty of native writers who certainly should!
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 4:28:29 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey

"It was a bright and sunny day two days ago, which is remarkable considering the weather we are having to-day. I had been at University all day but I got home at about 6 o-clock and realised that I hadn't really had any excercise all day and that I had been stuck inside all day without a single breath of fresh air so I decided that I couldn't sit down again to study until I had stretched my legs and taken a few gulps of the summery air and done something completely different to sitting in one place hunched over my books which seemed to be how I spent my whole life these days, and I knew that could not be good for me. Our local shopping centre can be reached through a small wood where squirrels and birds are always busy and so I decided then that I would go for a walk to the shops and choose something that I don't usually buy (which is only usually noodles and textbooks) at the same time. As I reached for my jacket I suddenly had the random thought that my mother too, might want to get out of the house for a while, or to get something at the shops herself. So as she walked past the of the passage-way I called out and told her of my plans and the reason I wanted to get out of the house and she agreed that sitting hunched over my books all the time wasn't good for my health - although, being my mum she also added it wasn't good for my posture, so I told her that her posture might also benefit from a leisurely walk and perhaps herself buying something crazy too - chocolates, a new book, bubble-bath - and asked her if she would like to come along with me so we could both do it together."

Now, compare it to this:

"Coming to the shops with me Mum?" I called out as I snatched my jacket up.

Which do you think is the better of the two?


Wow, I got a head ache reading the boring paragraph.

I've already taken hold of the book you suggested: Plain Words, a Guide to the Use of English (Revised and Updated by Rebecca Gowers.)

Thanks a lot.

Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
Atatürk
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 4:42:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,589
Neurons: 6,375
Location: İstanbul, Istanbul, Turkey
Third paragraph:

But over the past two or three decades, a new set of sports have gained currency: extreme sports. They have actually been developed so that the participants can push themselves to extreme and dangerous levels. But why are some people attracted to such dangerous activities? Mark Musgrave, an extreme windsurfer, says that it’s not a question of the activity per se; it’s a question of attitude. “Such sports don’t attract the masses,” he explains “and that in itself appeals to the minority who take up these sports.” According to Musgrave, in extreme sports you are not confined by any rule; there is no right or wrong, and you’re never crowded by people.


Thar, would you please tell me what's wrong with the underlined phrase?


Ite, maledicti, in ignem aeternum!
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