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flylikeeagle
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:19:40 AM

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Location: Cairo, Al Qahirah, Egypt
In the earliest mention of Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night"; John Manningham's Diary:

"A good practice in it [was] to make the Steward believe his Lady . . . in love with him, by counterfeiting a letter as from his Lady in general terms, telling him what she liked best in him, and prescribing his gesture in smiling, his apparel, &c., and then when he came to practice making him belive they took him to be mad."

What is meant by "came to practice" here?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:36:24 AM

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Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi!
I don't know Twelfth Night - for some reason, I have never seen that one. It might be easier for someone who knows the story.

However, what I read - what I think it being said - is "when he acted on it".

So they forged a letter.
He read it.
He did something based on this letter (somehow made a fool of himself by acting 'romantic' towards the Lady).
Then they spread the word that he was mad - crazy.
thar
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 12:16:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 20,849
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I agree, it looks like 'practice' as in 'do'.


Nowadays you don't use it much - you practise medicine or you practise law, or you "practise what you preach" (do things yourself in the same way you advise others to do them), but it most other cases it means to try to improve, not to do the job. There are a few more examples, though. Your business practices are how you choose to run your business - legally, efficiently, ethically or otherwise. And you put something into practice - do it, use it.

(For instance in British English the doctor in the community is your GP - General Practitioner. They have a medical practice. That is what he or she does.
Hopefully by the time they are qualified they are quite good at it, although of course they are always learning, they are doing rather than rehearsing!)

The 'trying, repeating for improvement' bit is a later step. The original meaning is just the doing.
Quote:
From Old French, from Late Latin practicus (“active”), from Ancient Greek πρακτικός (praktikós, “of or pertaining to action, concerned with action or business, active, practical”), from πράσσω (prássō, “I do”).


Like a chiropractor does things with their hands.

And 'comes to' is not physical arrival. I don't know if you had that, but it is arriving at the point when you start to do it.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 7:40:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
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Neurons: 9,925
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi!
I don't know Twelfth Night - for some reason, I have never seen that one. It might be easier for someone who knows the story.

However, what I read - what I think it being said - is "when he acted on it".

So they forged a letter.
He read it.
He did something based on this letter (somehow made a fool of himself by acting 'romantic' towards the Lady).
Then they spread the word that he was mad - crazy.


It's one of my favourite Shakespeare plays, I have seen it several times including at the Globe with Stephen Fry and Mark Rylance in the cast ( it was an all male production).

Mavolio is the steward to the Lady Olivia and is rather self important and bullying to other members of her household, they plot against him by leading him to think she is in love with him. The letter suggests he wears an outlandish set of garments yellow stockings and cross garters and smile broadly at her which it suggests Olivia finds attractive but which she actually detests.
Mavolio then tries to woo Lady Olivia whilst wearing these clothes which she takes umbridge against and has him thrown into a cell as a mad man.

Meanwhile Olivia is in love with Viola who is a girl dressed as a boy, and Viola is in love with Duke Orsino who is beginning to have feelings for his servant that perhaps he should not.....but hey it's Shakespeare. ( If you are aware of Balckadder then yes Bob).
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 8:00:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 33,165
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thanks Sarrriesfan.
That was the idea I had (except for the cross-dressing girls of course).

I hope that makes sense for flylikeeagle.

*********
It seems to have been a habit in those days for young girls to pretend to be boys. And for men (who live in very close proximity) to never mention noticing. Whistle Whistle
They seem to only be found out when another girl falls in love with them. . .

Quote:
And so many were the pranks that I saw among the French
And so boldly did I fight me boys although I'm but a wench
And in buttoning up me trousers so often have I smiled
To think I lay with a thousand men and a maiden all the while

And they never found my secret out until this very hour
When they sent me off to London to keep sentry o'er the Tower
When a young girl fell in love with me and she found that I was a maid
She went up to me officer me secret she betrayed
Female Drummer-boy

Quote:
For it’s of a fair young maiden, as you will understand,
Who had a mind for roving into a foreign land.
So dressed in man's apparel, she boldly did appear,
She engaged with a captain to serve him for a year.

She engaged with a captain his cabin boy to be,
The wind was in his favour and he put out to sea.
The captain's lady being on board, oh, it was to her joy,
That her husband had engaged with that handsome cabin boy.
The Female Cabin-boy
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 1:42:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 1,553
Neurons: 9,925
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Thanks Sarrriesfan.
That was the idea I had (except for the cross-dressing girls of course).

I hope that makes sense for flylikeeagle.

*********
It seems to have been a habit in those days for young girls to pretend to be boys. And for men (who live in very close proximity) to never mention noticing. Whistle Whistle
They seem to only be found out when another girl falls in love with them. . .

Quote:
And so many were the pranks that I saw among the French
And so boldly did I fight me boys although I'm but a wench
And in buttoning up me trousers so often have I smiled
To think I lay with a thousand men and a maiden all the while

And they never found my secret out until this very hour
When they sent me off to London to keep sentry o'er the Tower
When a young girl fell in love with me and she found that I was a maid
She went up to me officer me secret she betrayed
Female Drummer-boy

Quote:
For it’s of a fair young maiden, as you will understand,
Who had a mind for roving into a foreign land.
So dressed in man's apparel, she boldly did appear,
She engaged with a captain to serve him for a year.

She engaged with a captain his cabin boy to be,
The wind was in his favour and he put out to sea.
The captain's lady being on board, oh, it was to her joy,
That her husband had engaged with that handsome cabin boy.
The Female Cabin-boy


Of course in Shakespeare's day all the actors were male so perhaps the audience was in on a double joke as well, the girl playing a boy was actually a boy playing a girl, a bit like a Pantomine Dame.

I sometimes wonder as well if in a Midsummers Night's Dream the boy playing Hermia was not actually a lanky chap.

LYSANDER
(to HERMIA) Get you gone, you dwarf,
340You minimus of hindering knotgrass made,
You bead, you acorn!

Shakespeare knew the actors he was writing the parts for and could tailor lines to suit them.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 7:51:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 33,165
Neurons: 208,128
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

That's a thought - like the six-foot-three fourteen-year-old at my school called "Titch". Dancing
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