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'to be replaced with/by' Options
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2019 1:16:09 PM

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Hi Everyone!
I think, in passive forms, "something/someone is replaced by/with the agent" would be transferred to "the agent replaces something/someone"
To my curiosity about "to be replaced with/by", I sometimes see you say, for instance,
"This is a good man" can be replaced by "This is a man who is good". => "This is a man who is good" can replace "This is a good man".
"Teachers will never be replaced by computers in the classroom." => "Computers will never replace teachers in the classroom."
On the other hand, some other times, I see you say, for example,
"In all my numbered sentences, "exist" can be replaced with "are", or vice versa." =>"In all my numbered sentences, "are" can replace "exist", or vice versa."
"Any damaged things can be replaced with others [by us]."=>"We can replace any damaged things with others."






Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2019 1:42:22 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
They are both correct in many situations.

There are some passive sentence forms which only take one or the other. It depends what or who the speaker considers the "assumed subject"/agent.

I replaced the door-knob with a handle.
I replaced the door-knob by a handle.
He was replaced at the party with his deputy by the organisers.

He was replaced at the party by his deputy, as he was ill.
The broken window was replaced by a board. (the board is the agent)
The broken window was replaced with a board (by me).
The broken window was replaced with a board by the janitor.
(Janitor is the agent)
The broken window was replaced by a board by the janitor.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, January 7, 2019 5:32:17 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,142
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
They are both correct in many situations.

There are some passive sentence forms which only take one or the other. It depends what or who the speaker considers the "assumed subject"/agent.

I replaced the door-knob with a handle.
I replaced the door-knob by a handle.
He was replaced at the party with his deputy by the organisers.

He was replaced at the party by his deputy, as he was ill.
The broken window was replaced by a board. (the board is the agent)
The broken window was replaced with a board (by me).
The broken window was replaced with a board by the janitor.
(Janitor is the agent)
The broken window was replaced by a board by the janitor.


Thanks a lot,
First of all, why is "The broken window was replaced with a board by the janitor." correct, but "He was replaced at the party with his deputy by the organisers." is wrong?
Secondly, then I think
"This is a good man" can be replaced by "This is a man who is good". => "This is a man who is good" can replace "This is a good man".
"Teachers will never be replaced by computers in the classroom." => "Computers will never replace teachers in the classroom."
On the other hand,
"In all my numbered sentences, 'exist' can be replaced with 'are', or vice versa [by us]" =>"In all my numbered sentences, we can can replace 'exist' with 'are', or vice versa"
"Any damaged things can be replaced with others [by us]."=>"We can replace any damaged things with others."




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 5:59:37 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,142
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Repeated

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 6:00:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
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Could anyone please confirm those points for me?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 7:37:29 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Would you please confirm my previous points?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 4:22:07 AM

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Forget the grammar for a moment, and look at all the examples you can of the verb 'to replace' in context.

You will see it is one of those verbs which can express the same meaning in both the active and passive forms.

It is a bit like
I cooked the meat for two hours.
The meat was cooked for two hours (by me).
The meat cooked for two hours.

These actually mean the same thing.

Similarly, with the verb 'to replace' there are different ways of saying things.


X replaced Y as Prime Minister
that means X took over the job from Y. It doesn't say who appointed her, or how it happened. It just decribed what happened.

X was replaced by Y as Minister of Defence.
That also means X took over the job from Y. But here it explicitly says that someone else made that decision.

So there are a lot of different factors that influence how you say things.
The thing that something is displaced with
eg
the lock was replaced with a bolt

can also be the agent that replaces it
Android will replace Windows as the most popular OS
Windows will be replaced by Android as the most popular OS

Look at lots of examples of the word 'replace' and you will begin to see the pattern of when 'with' fits, and when 'by' fits.
Don't try to learn it as a rule in isolation. It is all about the meaning of the verb, and how it is used.

I can't comment on your examples because I am not sure what you are asking. But the point is don't work with sentences you know are wrong. They will stick in your head and you will just remember the wrong way of doing things. Look at correct sentences, in good texts.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 4:29:01 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,954
Neurons: 185,086
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
First of all, why is "The broken window was replaced with a board by the janitor." correct, but "He was replaced at the party with his deputy by the organisers." is wrong?
I don't know.
My best guess is that there are too many modifying phrases in a row (three).
"He was replaced at the party by the organisers. His deputy stood in for him" seems OK.
This is not a rule - it is just how the sentence sounds - its rhythm and ease of comprehension.
It is simpler to understand (without thinking) when separated into two sentences.

***************
Your other examples are OK - some are not likely to be seen or heard (because the forms like "This is a man who is good" are longer than those like "This is a good man."). However, they are equivalent sentences and mean the same thing.

As I said before "They are both correct in many situations" - As you show, "___ can be replaced by ___" is more the equivalent of "____ can replace ___"; whereas "___ can be replaced with ___" is the equivalent of "We can replace ___ with ___".

Sometimes, one seems more appropriate than the other.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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