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have just been taught Options
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:11:41 AM

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Can you please explain the different between 1 and 2?
1. "Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you have just been taught."
2. "Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you taught."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:29:23 AM

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Well,
In the first one, "you" are a student and you have just had a lesson about words.

In the second one, "you" are a teacher.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:37:05 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Well,
In the first one, "you" are a student and you have just had a lesson about words.

In the second one, "you" are a teacher.

Sorry Drago, I should have write 2 as:
2. "Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you was taught."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:48:42 AM

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There is only the point that the simple past passive (the second one) is much "broader in scope" than the perfect passive.

"which you have just been taught" is limited to today's lesson.
"which you were taught" is limited to some past time period (which will somehow be defined or known by the people involved).
(I think you may have replied in a rush - it's 'you were'.
"You was" is an error famous as being used by the youth of a couple of Britain's cities.)

"Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught yesterday."

"You've learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 11:17:47 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
There is only the point that the simple past passive (the second one) is much "broader in scope" than the perfect passive.

"which you have just been taught" is limited to today's lesson.
"which you were taught" is limited to some past time period (which will somehow be defined or known by the people involved).
(I think you may have replied in a rush - it's 'you were'.
"You was" is an error famous as being used by the youth of a couple of Britain's cities.)

"Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught yesterday."

"You've learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."

Yes, I didn't notice to 'you'. Thanks a lot :)
If the time period is the same, are both the same?
3. "You've learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."
4. "You learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 11:17:53 AM

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Joined: 11/8/2017
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
There is only the point that the simple past passive (the second one) is much "broader in scope" than the perfect passive.

"which you have just been taught" is limited to today's lesson.
"which you were taught" is limited to some past time period (which will somehow be defined or known by the people involved).
(I think you may have replied in a rush - it's 'you were'.
"You was" is an error famous as being used by the youth of a couple of Britain's cities.)

"Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught yesterday."

"You've learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."

Yes, I didn't notice to 'you'. Thanks a lot :)
If the time period is the same, are both the same?
3. "You've learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."
4. "You learned a lot of new vocabulary in the last week. Now make up your own sentences, one for each of the new words you were taught."
thar
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 11:48:14 AM

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'In the last week' is the week leading up to now. So that takes the present perfect.

'Last week' is a period in the past, and can take the past. It can also take the present perfect depending on what you are talking about.


You need to consider about the meaning. If you learn something, does it have an effect on the present - ie do you still expect to remember it? Yes - so the present perfect emphasises that.

eg
A few years ago I learnt some Arabic but I haven't used it so I have forgotten it all.
A few years ago I learnt some Arabic so I can understand simple signs.
I learnt it - that is a past action. It may or may not be true in the present.

In the last few months I have learnt some Turkish.
That suggests I still know most of it, because it is talking about the present effect of a past action.

It depends on the verb. If you learn something, then the meaning implies that knowledge stays with you, so there is less difference between the past and the present.
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 12:26:56 PM

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thar wrote:
'In the last week' is the week leading up to now. So that takes the present perfect.

'Last week' is a period in the past, and can take the past. It can also take the present perfect depending on what you are talking about.


You need to consider about the meaning. If you learn something, does it have an effect on the present - ie do you still expect to remember it? Yes - so the present perfect emphasises that.

eg
A few years ago I learnt some Arabic but I haven't used it so I have forgotten it all.
A few years ago I learnt some Arabic so I can understand simple signs.
I learnt it - that is a past action. It may or may not be true in the present.

In the last few months I have learnt some Turkish.
That suggests I still know most of it, because it is talking about the present effect of a past action.

It depends on the verb. If you learn something, then the meaning implies that knowledge stays with you, so there is less difference between the past and the present.

شُكْرًا جَزِيلاً
Here we learn basic Arabic in middle and high school
Thanks a lot thar :)
NKM
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 4:54:15 PM

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Quick note: British "learnt " = American "learned ".

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:35:40 AM

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But what do you use for the adjective? -
The learned scholar spoke about the meaning of life . . .

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
thar
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:42:49 AM

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I guess you have a learned behaviour and a learned person.
Ah, such a lovely phonetic language!

I do hear American 'beloved' with no final stress, said the same way you would say 'loved'. Whereas to me it has a final stress - like a beloved dog, a learned person. But that is not grammatically justifiable, I think. The dog is loved by someone, but the person is not learned by someone. OK, that is not comparable because of the be-. But a hall is not a bedeck-ed hall. I think some of these things are just a bit random the way they have turned out!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:46:43 AM

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Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
NKM
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 11:00:34 PM

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Location: Corinth, New York, United States
I too hear my fellow Americans, especially when reading aloud, losing a syllable from learnéd, belovéd and blesséd.

Admittedly, the phonetic confusion is not surprising, but usually context should be sufficient to determine which pronunciation is appropriate.

(Of course the acute accent is not "authentic" for this use, and in fact it is seldom used in the spelling.)

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 2:39:57 AM

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Yes - I've seen the accent used occasionally - but that is not real English. Not authentic, as you say.

I suppose, really, it would be more correct to use a diaeresis, like in the name Chloë or the old (occasionally used) spelling of coöperate.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
RuthP
Posted: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 11:26:57 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Yes - I've seen the accent used occasionally - but that is not real English. Not authentic, as you say.

I suppose, really, it would be more correct to use a diaeresis, like in the name Chloë or the old (occasionally used) spelling of coöperate.

One does not, however, require diacritical marks for pronunciation! Think In writing, while I personally like the use of accent and diacritical marks, and borrowed letters or even words, context generally explains the difference in meaning.

And, of course, while relatively unusual (but only relatively) in AE, the final "t" in place of "ed" is certainly not wrong. Think of it as flexibility. Whistle
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 11:54:23 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hello Ruth.
Yes - I often use the 't' endings (where applicable) - "I dreamt a dream" probably sounds better as "I dreamed a dream", but they're both OK.

Accents and diacritics shouldn't really be needed for native English words - but I have heard phrases like "a learned man said . . ."
(pronounced "lernd" instead of "lernid")

As thar's post shows, without a full sentence (context as you say) it's difficult sometimes.

learned behaviour = behaviour which has been learned, not 'reflex action'.
learned behaviour = behaviour befitting a person who has studied a lot (two syllables 'learnéd')

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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