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different value judgment Options
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 7:43:20 AM

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Hi
Can 'value' be omitted?
"if a person is very thrifty with money, would you describe him or her as economical or stingy, careful or miserly, frugal or greedy? Though the trait is the same in each case, the word describing it has a different value judgment."

Is "the word describing it" the same with "the word that describe it"?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 8:37:58 AM

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Hi Tara.

I think - although it does sound a little redundant - it is better to say 'value judgement'.

It is not the simple judgement of facts which is involved, it is 'what VALUE do you (or I) attach to the facts?'

Another example is a child, say.
This child is running around, playing with a ball, bumps into someone - then drops the ball and starts playing with the cat. The cat is so interesting that Mother can shout and shout but not be heard . . .

Two people might both judge the child as being energetic and fast-moving.

However, the value is different.
To one person, it is negative - the child is hyperactive and should be drugged to keep him/her quiet and amenable.
To another person, the value is positive - the child is lively, active, alive, spirited, vital.

The judgement is the same (the child is energetic) - the value assigned to that judgement decides which word is used - "hyperactive" or "alive".


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:02:43 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi Tara.

I think - although it does sound a little redundant - it is better to say 'value judgement'.

It is not the simple judgement of facts which is involved, it is 'what VALUE do you (or I) attach to the facts?'

Another example is a child, say.
This child is running around, playing with a ball, bumps into someone - then drops the ball and starts playing with the cat. The cat is so interesting that Mother can shout and shout but not be heard . . .

Two people might both judge the child as being energetic and fast-moving.

However, the value is different.
To one person, it is negative - the child is hyperactive and should be drugged to keep him/her quiet and amenable.
To another person, the value is positive - the child is lively, active, alive, spirited, vital.

The judgement is the same (the child is energetic) - the value assigned to that judgement decides which word is used - "hyperactive" or "alive".

It's very helpul. Thank you Drago :)
Sorry is 'value' in that sentence a noun or what, please?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:21:03 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I'm afraid that "value" is an "or what" in that sentence. . .Whistle

I would say that it is an 'attributive noun' - a noun being used to describe another noun.

A "bus stop" is a stop for a bus. 'Bus' is a noun modifying the noun 'stop'.
A "value judgement" is a judgement which involved value. "Value" is a noun modifying the noun 'judgement'.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:24:29 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I'm afraid that "value" is an "or what" in that sentence. . .Whistle

I would say that it is an 'attributive noun' - a noun being used to describe another noun.

A "bus stop" is a stop for a bus. 'Bus' is a noun modifying the noun 'stop'.
A "value judgement" is a judgement which involved value. "Value" is a noun modifying the noun 'judgement'.

I understand :) :)
Thank you again Drago
NKM
Posted: Monday, December 3, 2018 4:46:47 PM

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Indeed, "the word describing it" is equivalent to [i.e., the same as] "the word that describes it".

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:30:04 AM

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NKM wrote:
Indeed, "the word describing it" is equivalent to [i.e., the same as] "the word that describes it".

. . . and the word which describes it and the word used to describe it. Indeed!

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:37:31 AM

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NKM wrote:
Indeed, "the word describing it" is equivalent to [i.e., the same as] "the word that describes it".


Thank you NKM
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:38:22 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
NKM wrote:
Indeed, "the word describing it" is equivalent to [i.e., the same as] "the word that describes it".

. . . and the word which describes it and the word used to describe it. Indeed!

Thank you Drago
Why did you use "used to"?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 11:07:23 AM

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Ah - I didn't think (it's pronounced differently) . . . it's another way of saying the same thing as "describing it" or "which describes it".

The word used to describe it is "hilarious". The word which is employed for the description is "hilarious". The word I use, in order to describe it, is "hilarious".

It's not like this:
I used to describe it like that. - I described it like that at some period in the past.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 11:35:28 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Ah - I didn't think (it's pronounced differently) . . . it's another way of saying the same thing as "describing it" or "which describes it".

The word used to describe it is "hilarious". The word which is employed for the description is "hilarious". The word I use, in order to describe it, is "hilarious".

It's not like this:
I used to describe it like that. - I described it like that at some period in the past.

Thanks a lot Drago
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 12:37:33 PM

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You're welcome.

I didn't even realise that the two phrases were written the same, until you asked . . . d'oh!

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 12:56:23 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
You're welcome.

I didn't even realise that the two phrases were written the same, until you asked . . . d'oh!

That's why my English is terrible
Thank you again for all your help
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:21:11 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
You're welcome.

I didn't even realise that the two phrases were written the same, until you asked . . . d'oh!

I am very sorry, I should have written "That's because my English is terrible."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:29:29 PM

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Oh, I don't think so - just that English uses the same exact phrase to mean two completely different things!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:42:51 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Oh, I don't think so - just that English uses the same exact phrase to mean two completely different things!

That's very kind of you :)
NKM
Posted: Friday, December 7, 2018 5:28:38 PM

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Kind, yes, but also absolutely true.

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