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'You'll get me killed.' Vs. 'You'll get me be killed.' (causative verbs) Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:38:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!
I am confused with the usage of such patterns:
X get me killed <-> X get me be killed
X get it done <-> X get it be done
X make it done <-> X make it be done
X let it done <-> X let it be done
X have it done <-> X have it be done

Could you please explain what each sentence of each pair means?

For example,

You'll get me killed => you'll get yourself kill me.
You'll get me be killed => You'll get somebody kill me.




Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done" or "I got it be done"
I got it done => I got myself do it (cheat).
I got it(cheat) be done => I got somebody do it(cheat). I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? It means that someone else made cheat done for me."


I got my hair cut. => I got myself cut my hair.
I got my hair be cut. => I got somebody cut my hair.



A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get themselves deceive themselves from the same persons.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get the same persons deceive them twice.



I would appreciate it If you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep yourself inform me.
I would appreciate it If you would keep me be informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep someone inform me.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:40:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/20/2015
Posts: 1,036
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The sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
It should be "X get me to be killed," because the verb "get" takes "to infinitive" after an object.
When it is written in that way, it means the same as "X get me killed."

What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 10:20:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
FROSTY X RIME wrote:
The sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
It should be "X get me to be killed," because the verb "get" takes "to infinitive" after an object.
When it is written in that way, it means the same as "X get me killed."


Thanks to you,
I am sorry these kinds of structures are far difficult to be understood. I think the key of understanding them is if you would be so kind as to explain in words why you did decide that the sentence "X get me be killed," is wrong grammatically.
If I am going to transmit the passive action, then "You'll get me killed" means "You'll yourself kill me." And also, "You'll get me to be killed." means "You'll get me to somebody kills me."

If "You'll get me killed." means the same as "You'll get me to be killed.", then "I got my hair cut." means the same as "I got my hair to be cut."

If "You got me be killed." is wrong grammatically, then from the same logic, all of these are wrong:
I got my hair be cut.
I got it(cheat) be done.
If you would keep me be informed.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
BobShilling
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 1:41:04 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 546
Neurons: 3,711
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
You will get me killed = you will do something that brings about a situation in which I am killed
You will get me be killed - not possible
You will get it done = you will ensure that it is done
You will get it be done- not possible
You will make it done - not possible
You will make it be done - unlikely
You will let it done - not possible
You will let it be done = you will allow it to be done
You will have it done = you will cause it to be done
You'll get yourself kill me - not possible
You'll get somebody kill me - not possible
You will get somebody to kill me = you will ensure that somebody kills me
You will get me to be killed - not possible.




Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done" or "I got it be done"
I got it done => I got myself do it (cheat).
I got it(cheat) be done => I got somebody do it(cheat). I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? It means that someone else made cheat done for me."


I got my hair cut. => I got myself cut my hair.
I got my hair be cut. => I got somebody cut my hair.



A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get themselves deceive themselves from the same persons.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => A wise person cannot get the same persons deceive them twice.



I would appreciate it If you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep yourself inform me.
I would appreciate it If you would keep me be informed. => I would appreciate it If you would keep someone inform me.

[/quote]
renee talley 1
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:41:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/1/2018
Posts: 158
Neurons: 2,816
Anxious Think You'll get yourself killed whenever you overreact and make a rash decision. The other example you used takes the meaning away and your ability and get your ability from point A - b with much more emphasis when your more direct to the person.Applause Applause Dancing Whistle
renee talley 1
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:50:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/1/2018
Posts: 158
Neurons: 2,816
Whistle Think Applause Applause Speak to the hand
renee talley 1 wrote:
Anxious Think You'll get yourself killed whenever you overreact and make a rash decision. The other example you used takes the meaning away and your ability and get your ability from point A - b with much more emphasis when your more direct to the person.Applause Applause Dancing Whistle
I have known you for a long time know and getting in touch with
your emotions when you have gone through your emotions on paper is the best policy. If you feel you are bullied or threatened and you know who that person is; very discreetly go to the right law enforcement agency. When you are more calmer the person you're talking to the right you'll get far more results in the long run!!!Dancing Dancing Dancing Whistle Whistle Applause Applause Applause Applause
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:17:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi A Cooperator.

Different (cause/allow/forbid) verbs of this type can have several 'following verb-forms' and different types of object.

With a predicate which is the action.


Full passive infinitive - 'I caused it to be done.' - 'He caused her to be killed.'
Base passive infinitive - 'I let it be done.' 'He let her be killed.'
Participle - 'I got it done.' 'He got her killed.'
Participle - 'I had it done.' 'He had her killed.'

Most verbs only use one (or two, occasionally) of the forms. I do not know a pattern. I think you will have to look up each word in a dictionary as you use it, until you are used to the different ways to use them.

I caused it to be done.
I caused it be done.
I caused it done.


I got it be done.
I got it done.
I got it to be done.
- very unusual

I let it be done.
I let it done.
I let it to be done.


I had it done.
I had it be done.
I had it to be done.

_____________________________

With an object which is a person or thing doing the action.

Full infinitive - 'I got him to do it.' 'He got her to kill the spider.' This is the most common form.
Base infinitive (or subjunctive) - 'I had him do it.' 'He had her kill the spider.'

*******************
Some notes on your extra examples at the end.
You'll get me killed => you'll cause something to happen which will kill me.
You'll get me be killed => Impossible

Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done"
I got it done => I got someone to do it (cheat). ('Someone' includes myself.)
I got it(cheat) be done => Impossible.
I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? Yes. It means that someone else cheated for me, or I, myself, cheated with some difficulty.

I got my hair cut. => I got somebody to cut my hair. I caused my hair to be cut (by someone).
I got my hair be cut. => Impossible

A wise person cannot get themselves deceived twice from the same persons. => Impossible - you cannot cause someone else to deceive you. It's illogical.
A wise person cannot get themselves be deceived twice from the same persons. => Impossible - you cannot cause someone else to deceive you. It's illogical.
"Get" (when you 'get something done') means that you do something, some work or effort, and you succeed. You want the action done, so you do something (hire someone, persuade someone, or work on the job yourself) until you have succeeded and the action is finished.
You do not work on causing someone to deceive you.


I would appreciate it if you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it if you continue to tell me what's happening.
I would appreciate it if you would keep yourself inform me. - impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep me be informed. => impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep someone inform me.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:56:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/20/2015
Posts: 1,036
Neurons: 11,557
Dragon wrote this:

I got it done => I got someone to do it (cheat). ('Someone' includes myself.)

I will highlight "('someone') includes myself".

Job Done here. ^^



What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 8:55:21 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

I would appreciate it if you would keep me informed. => I would appreciate it if you continue to tell me what's happening.
I would appreciate it if you would keep yourself inform me. - impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep me be informed. => impossible
I would appreciate it if you would keep someone inform me.


Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker
But, you didn't think "informed" is somehow acting as the passivised verb of "informed" in my sentence although "be" is missing, which we need to have its active infinitive.
However, you said that "you keep me informed" = "you continue to tell me.. ". But, there is no mention for "inform".

I will keep you informed. => I will keep/continue to tell you.
I will keep you posted. => I will keep/continue to post you..???

Passive infinitive:
To be informed. =>???

Bare passive infinitive:
Can you Keep me be informed (by someone/somebody)? => can you keep someone inform me?
Can you Keep me be posted.(by someone/somebody)? => can you keep someone post me?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 9:50:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,145
Neurons: 11,746
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

Different (cause/allow/forbid) verbs of this type can have several 'following verb-forms' and different types of object.

With a predicate which is the action.


Full passive infinitive -
Base passive infinitive -
Participle - 'I got it done.' 'He got her killed.'
Participle - 'I had it done.'

Most verbs only use one (or two, occasionally) of the forms. I do not know a pattern. I think you will have to look up each word in a dictionary as you use it, until you are used to the different ways to use them.

Someone talking about cheating in the exam. So, he/she says "I got it done"
I got it done => I got someone to do it (cheat). ('Someone' includes myself.)
I got it(cheat) be done => Impossible.
I can say "I got it done. - Where "it" refers to "cheat"? Yes. It means that someone else cheated for me, or I, myself, cheated with some difficulty.

I got my hair cut. => I got somebody to cut my hair. I caused my hair to be cut (by someone).
I got my hair be cut. => Impossible


Thanks a lot,
First of all, I only know "have/make/get/let/cause/allow" to be used in such forms.
The difficulty is in which verbs can be used with all the three forms, and what is the difference in meaning?

Here "have something done (Participle)"
Past "had something done"
Future "will have something done"

Bear in mind that I am familiar with "repaired/arrested/pointed" is not a full or even base passive infinitive since "be" is missing. However, they look like they have passive meaning.

1- I must have my watch repaired. = I want my watch to be repaired.
So, the active forms:
I must have my watch repaired -> I must have someone repair my watch.
I want my watch to be repaired. -> I want someone to repair my watch.

2- if you don't get out of my house, I will have you arrested. = .....I will make you to be arrested.
The active forms:
......, I will have you arrested. -> I will have someone arrest you.
......, I will make you to be arrested. ->......I will make someone arrest you.

3- My secret was that I had this gun loaded with hollow-point bullets pointed at my head by the man who I thought was my soulmate, many, many times. The man who I loved more than anybody on Earth held a gun to my head and threatened to kill me more times than I can even remember.

The active form:
=> My secret was that I had the man who I thought was my soulmate point this gun loaded with hollow-point bullets at my head....


If my active form of the passive meaning of "pointed" above is impossible, then as long as the participle "pointed" has a passive meaning, can you explain for me what the causative structure "had something pointed" means in "had had this gun loaded with hollow-point bullets pointed at my head by the man who I thought was my soulmate, many, many times."





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
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