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Mixed up, muddled up Options
maltliquor87
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2018 2:19:16 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hi, dear forum members.

The context of my question is a situation in which some things (concepts, definitions, etc) are mixed up in someone's mind. I guess that in such situations another person may say some the following to him or her:


Quote:
You've got them mixed up.
You've got them muddled up.
You've got them jumbled up.


So my question is whether the "got" part can be dropped leaving simply the "have" part as follows

Quote:
You have them mixed up.
You have them muddled up.
You have them jumbled up.



Thanks in advance.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2018 5:11:41 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Definitely!

However, in this case, "got" is not totally redundant.
It strengthens the sentence by making it active dynamic instead of copular.

"Get" is an active dynamic verb.
"Have" is a copula (linking verb).

"Get" means "to cause something to be or do something".
In many senses, "have got" means virtually the same as "have".
"I have some money in my pocket" and "I have got some money in my pocket" mean very little different. "Got" is redundant.

"You have them mixed up" is a statement of the situation and it doesn't say WHO caused the mix-up (it may have been the fault of the person's teacher!)

"You've got them mixed up" is a statement of action - and the subject of the action is YOU.
It's YOU who caused the mix-up (maybe inadvertently, but you got them mixed up.)

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
maltliquor87
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2018 5:36:38 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thanks, Drago!
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2018 10:21:16 AM

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I'm not a prude, but those "haves" absolutely must stop copulating in public like that...







We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:49:57 PM

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Absolutely, yes, drop the "got" in every one of those sample sentences! Using those in that fashion makes you sound like you never advanced beyond 6th grade. All the justification in the world doesn't change this.

Correct Version of the Quote:
You have them mixed up.
You have them muddled up.
You have them jumbled up.
Romany
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2018 3:23:51 AM
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Wilmar is right that "have them" rather than "have got them" was once - and still is for some people - the "correct" was to phrase this. And "got" is still not used in academic writing.

However, the language itself has come to include "got" and so that usage has now become acceptable. I wouldn't use it formally, but IRL I use it automatically: "Have you got the car keys?" "Oh damn, I haven't got any milk left." "I've got to buy a new car because of the accident."
maltliquor87
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2018 4:04:38 AM

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Joined: 11/29/2017
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
I think Wilmar was being a little bit judgmental when he said that using "have got" would make you sound like you never advanced beyond 6th grade . I've heard eloquent and educated speakers of British English use "have got" in their speech. On the other hand, Americans don't seem to use it very often. But when they do use it that also sounds fine.

I wasn't sure about those specific examples.

Thanks everyone.
Romany
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2018 2:48:36 PM
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maltliquor87,

In fairness, I think that Wilbur isn't being judgemental. Like a lot of very elderly people he sticks to the "rules" he learnt when young. And I think he is convinced that he really is pointing out the "right" way.I really don't think he realises that telling people what they must do is frowned upon these days.

I don't think his - sometimes curmudgeonly - posts are meant to be judgemental at all. I think that, like all of us, he does want to help but is just not very much in touch with modern International English.
maltliquor87
Posted: Monday, November 5, 2018 3:56:54 PM

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Joined: 11/29/2017
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
I appreciate Wilmar's comment very much. As a native speaker of American English, he's confirmed that the "got" part can be dropped. So there's no area of disagreement here.

Where some disagreement lies is in the question of whether leaving "have got" intact represents some sort of linguistic abomination. Drago finds this usage unexceptionable, so would many speakers of British English, I suspect. If there's any divide when it comes to using this construction in conversation, it runs primarily along varieties of English rather than along levels of education.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:46:32 AM
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The point is that "have got"....or any substitution of "got" for "have"... was once considered a linguistic abomination( lovely little phrase!) And, to make it an even more horrific abomination, it was considered American slangWhistle

However, no imposed rules proved able to stop "got" infiltrating the language and taking over. It became Common Usage in most forms of English.

English academics are probably the only users of English who would be penalised for using it today.(Which one could see as either setting an example - or of showing off!)

Love it or hate it; it wriggled itself into the language and is perfectly happy there. Entirely up to you if you want to use it or not: no-one is likely even to notice.

maltliquor87
Posted: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 9:10:35 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/29/2017
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thanks, Romany.

By the way, I like this phrase: "wriggled itself into the language".
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