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which phrase sounds the most natural Options
AlyonaSunlight
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:12:14 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hello!

Which of these phrases sounds the most natural to you? (If any)
How would you express this idea?


It’s not difficult to help somebody for him to say “thank you”.
It’s not difficult to help somebody to make him say “thank you”.
It’s not difficult to help somebody to hear him say “thank you”.


Thank you in advance!
thar
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 11:05:23 AM

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I can't tell what you mean, here.

You have two infinitives.

It isn't hard to help someone -- but I don't understand the second part.

If you want to introduce another idea with another subject, you need a conjunction

it isn't hard to help someone

and it isn't hard for him to say thankyou.

I don't think that is what you mean, though.

Also are you making him say thankyou? Or hearing him say it? Those are completely different.

You need to restructure the sentence because at the moment I can't see what you are trying to say.


Is it:
It's not hard for someone to say thankyou when you've helped them.
(ie, they should and they are very rude if they don't)
Sanmayce
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 12:15:03 PM

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Location: Sofia, Sofia-Capital, Bulgaria
None, they are total disaster.
How about using comma?

If your source phrase is this "не трудно помочь и сказать спасибо" then one variant would be "it's not hard to help and say thanks", the original doesn't specify, which only widens the meaning, there is no need of pronouns AT ALL.

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
AlyonaSunlight
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 3:00:11 PM

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Joined: 10/1/2014
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Well, first of all thank you for the answers!))

It's quite difficult to explain this idea in another language but I'll try))

What I want to say is:

It's easy to say "thank you" when someone helps you and as far as it's easy you have to do it! You should be polite.
And it isn't any harder to help somebody and get his "thank you". So you have to do something for other people, to help them and in return they will say "thank you.

Here it is in Russian:

Несложно сказать "спасибо", если тебе кто-то помог. И не чуть не сложнее помочь другому, чтобы тот в свою очередь сказал "спасибо" тебе.


I'm not sure if it's more understandable now 😀

Speaking about punctuation, I have to say, that the rules in my native language and in English are sooooo different. Look at the previous sentence and you'll understand. As in Russian we have a very strict and difficult punctuation "system" I don't really get how you guys put commas in sentences)) 😩
For example, in Russian you ALWAYS have to put commas before the word "but")

Sanmayce
Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 5:26:34 PM

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Location: Sofia, Sofia-Capital, Bulgaria
AlyonaSunlight wrote:
What I want to say is:

It's easy to say "thank you" when someone helps you and as far as it's easy you have to do it! You should be polite.
And it isn't any harder to help somebody and get his "thank you". So you have to do something for other people, to help them and in return they will say "thank you.


Exactly what I sensed, the pronounless :P wording conveys both being easy.

Несложно сказать "спасибо", если тебе кто-то помог. И не чуть не сложнее помочь другому, чтобы тот в свою очередь сказал "спасибо" тебе.

You successfully translated the above 4 clauses. What troubles you?
My literal attempt is:
It's not hard to say "thanks", if someone has helped you, and a little harder to help someone else, in order to get "thank you" in return.

Native speakers could clarify... but my understanding is that the Russian construction is faulty - the last clause injects unnecessary ... dependency, it sounds as a leftover and shows the helper doing it conditionally.

Алёничка Солнышко, your style of stating what interests you is plain and okay, my remark is to be not slave of those grammatical rules, after all it is not that important, unless the meaning is hurt, if you have read Dostoyevskiy, in his letters he explains that writing 'god/God' is up to him, the same goes for punctuation, he stated that commas are to be put where he wants, such attitude is admirable, no constraints, pure flow. Of course, to justify such frivolity one has to be soulful all the way.

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
AlyonaSunlight
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 3:18:22 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thank you very much, Sanmayce!))
Especially for the "Алёничка Солнышко" part though it's Алёночка but anyway it's extremely sweet!)))
Sanmayce
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 7:54:42 AM

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Joined: 5/29/2012
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Location: Sofia, Sofia-Capital, Bulgaria
AlyonaSunlight wrote:
Thank you very much, Sanmayce!))
Especially for the "Алёничка Солнышко" part though it's Алёночка but anyway it's extremely sweet!)))


Hee-hee, that's right Алёночка, you got me ... or not? Two things, the way the owner/bearer of the name says it, that is the highway, BUT! Here comes the notion, I spoke of yesterday, implemented/applied - workaround of the rules and imposing an additional ... notion:

We have "Алёнин сад" for "Alena's garden", the "Алёничка Солнышко" means "The little Alyona's little Sun" or more poetically the "The little sun Alyona", the beauty here is doubled since they reinforce each other. Indeed, Alyona Sunlight is a great name, in one category with Holly Knight - the artistic pseudonym of Holly Erlanger, again the two words converging and thus highlighting one another. Of course, the sunbeam/sunlight is the radiance, the emanation of that sun, so the "The sunlight of the little Alyona's little sun", gladdens the eyes when reading it.

Alyona
Alyona (Russian: Алёна) is a Russian female given name derived from the Ancient Greek name Ἑλένη, Helenē (dialectal variant: Ἑλένα, Helena). It can also be the short form of Yelena. Its colloquial forms are Alena, and Olena (Олёна). Other variants include Helena and Helen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyona

We have to remember the Greek is where this bonanza comes from - '[H]ELENI':
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%99%CE%BB%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%B7

Note that:
nominative case is Alena
genitive case is Aleny
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Alena

In Greek, genitive case is Ἑλένης, nearly as the derivative/successor is ELENIN/ALENIN or reading the 'e' as 'ё' - ELYONIN/ALYONIN.

More about it at: https://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/genitive_case.htm

По второй версии, имя Алёна имеет древнегреческое происхождение и означает «солнечная», «сияющая». Есть некоторые другие варианты перевода – «взбудораживающая», «одухотворяющая», «притягивающая», «привораживающая». Имя Алёна является женским вариантом европейского мужского имени Алан.
Подробнее на https://kakzovut.ru/names/alena.html

Not long ago I had been hit by 'Alannah' - there is a thread on TFD.

Simply, these names are lovely, for some reason they easily make me sway.

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 12:52:12 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 9,707
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AlyonaSunlight wrote:

It's easy to say "thank you" when someone helps you and as far as it's easy you have to do it! You should be polite.
And it isn't any harder to help somebody and get his "thank you". So you have to do something for other people, to help them and in return they will say "thank you.

I would interpret this as:

"It's easy to say "Thank you" when someone helps you, and it is easy to help another when you know you will receive a "Thank you" in return.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
AlyonaSunlight
Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 5:24:53 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/1/2014
Posts: 382
Neurons: 2,440
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Thank you very much, FounDit!


Sanmayce, I totally got your idea! Thank you!
Actually, there are two types of Алёна nowadays. In the majority of cases it exists now as an independant full name. But there are cases (like mine) when it is considered to be only one of the forms of Елена. So my full name is Elena - exactly as it is described in the articles you provided.

My elder brother named me because he wanted to have a sister "Алёнушка" (one more informal form). He named me after the famous Russian folklor character called "sister Alyonushka". But parents decided to register me as "Елена" cause the fullest form of the name would be in this case Елена Александровна (Aleksandrovna). And it sounds better than Алёна Александровна (according to them)))

That's the story.
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