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The Prime Minister Options
Amybal
Posted: Friday, October 5, 2018 2:22:17 PM
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Hi, do you see anything grammatically wrong in these sentence?

Short summary
In order to secure his release after being kidnapped, the Belgian prime minister must assassinate the president of the USA.

Long summary
On its way to a summit meeting in Brussels, the car of the Belgian Prime Minister is hijacked, his driver killed and the Prime Minister kidnapped. Soon, the PM learns that his wife and children are being held hostage. They will only survive if he kills the person he is due to meet later that day: the president of the United States. He has to decide who to save, his family or the president.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, October 5, 2018 6:09:20 PM

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Amybal wrote:
Hi, do you see anything grammatically wrong in these sentence?

Short summary
In order to secure his release after being kidnapped, the Belgian prime minister must assassinate the president of the USA.

Long summary
On his way to a summit meeting in Brussels, the car of the Belgian Prime Minister is hijacked, his driver killed and the Prime Minister kidnapped. Soon, the PM learns that his wife and children are being held hostage. They will only survive if he kills the person he is due to meet later that day: the President of the United States. He has to decide who to save, his family or the President.


Very good. I see only two things: "his" and the title "President" needs a capital letter..

We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
renee talley 1
Posted: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:50:11 PM
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Think Speak to the hand Think As the royal families of England's Rose (Sir Elton John gets credit) were blessed by the Prime
Minister began a life's journey filled with steadfast hope wisdom along with common sense.Applause Applause Applause Dancing Dancing
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:25:42 AM

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Ignore Renee as usual.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
ozok
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:50:28 AM
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Not sure that ‘president’ should be capitalized here in this context. Since it is not a direct address it could be any US president. Same with ‘prime minister’.



just sayin'
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 2:08:30 AM

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ozok wrote:


Not sure that ‘president’ should be capitalized here in this context. Since it is not a direct address it could be any US president. Same with ‘prime minister’.



I would argue it's an American English usage, they even refer to former presidents such as Jimmy Carter as President Carter once a President always a President.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 9:25:22 AM

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Sarrriesfan wrote:
ozok wrote:


Not sure that ‘president’ should be capitalized here in this context. Since it is not a direct address it could be any US president. Same with ‘prime minister’.



I would argue it's an American English usage, they even refer to former presidents such as Jimmy Carter as President Carter once a President always a President.


That's true only if the name follows it - even in the US.

http://grammarist.com/style/president/

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 10:45:35 AM

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There seems to be some variation on this, as there is with so many things in writing. The Grammar Book site has this note:



NOTE

Out of respect, some writers and publishers choose to capitalize the highest ranks in government, royalty, religion, etc.

Examples:
The President arrived.
The Queen spoke.
The Pope decreed.

Many American writers believe this to be a wrongheaded policy in a country where, theoretically, all humans are perceived as equal.



Though respect seems to be in short supply in today's world, I still think it fitting to capitalize the title out of respect for the office.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:21:16 PM

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In this respect, I agree.

In that paragraph, the title is naming a single person - the person he was due to meet that day - the President of the USA. This is the same as using capital letters for a person's name.

If it were using the title to speak about the general 'post/job' of the president of the US, I would use a small (miniscule) letter.

The president of the USA and prime minister of England are similar in that the jobs were both created in the eighteenth century, but the functions performed are rather different.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:54:21 PM

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Apparently there IS a difference of opinion according to the style guide being used.

This is what I was taught in Canada:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is Canada’s newest leader.
The prime minister addressed the Senate.
Pierre Trudeau, the 15th prime minister of Canada, was Justin’s father. (no cap needed even though it is referring to a specific person's title)

Note that different style guides have different opinions on this, so if you’re teaching at the university level, tell students they should refer to their department’s style guide and follow those suggestions.


Edited: https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/capital.asp

The article here asks where it stops and mentions that some Americans don't think the highest offices should be capitalized - for a very strange reason in IMHO - because all people are supposed to be equal. That's not a grammar reason. Edited again: Although maybe I shouldn't think it strange, because "respect" is also not a grammar reason.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 9:25:13 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
Apparently there IS a difference of opinion according to the style guide being used.

This is what I was taught in Canada:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is Canada’s newest leader.
The prime minister addressed the Senate.
Pierre Trudeau, the 15th prime minister of Canada, was Justin’s father. (no cap needed even though it is referring to a specific person's title)

Note that different style guides have different opinions on this, so if you’re teaching at the university level, tell students they should refer to their department’s style guide and follow those suggestions.


Edited: https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/capital.asp

The article here asks where it stops and mentions that some Americans don't think the highest offices should be capitalized - for a very strange reason in IMHO - because all people are supposed to be equal. That's not a grammar reason. Edited again: Although maybe I shouldn't think it strange, because "respect" is also not a grammar reason.


Oh, really? Then why do we capitalize the names of people, or countries, if not out of respect?

We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 6, 2018 9:39:38 PM

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FD, I don't know how you are interpreting this but I said, "Maybe I shouldn't think it strange". Should not think it strange.



The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, October 7, 2018 10:09:13 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
FD, I don't know how you are interpreting this but I said, "Maybe I shouldn't think it strange". Should not think it strange.



I agree that being equal is not a grammar rule, and the idea is wrong because the phrase is "created equal". No two people are equal because each person is unique. But there can be no difference is the creation of them.

I interpreted your words of "because "respect" is also not a grammar reason." as meaning respect is not a reason for capitalization. I was making the point that I think it is a reason for the grammar rule for capitals.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 7, 2018 12:27:08 PM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Glad to clear up your misinterpretation. I did not say respect should not be a reason for capitalization.

I was merely saying that upon further thought I changed my mind from my initial reaction because neither is a grammar rule so both should be considered.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
Amybal
Posted: Sunday, October 7, 2018 10:02:03 PM
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Thank you all for clarifying the importance of a capital letter.
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