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Has/Have either Luis or his parents traveled abroad? Options
capitán
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:05:03 AM

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Location: San Salvador, San Salvador, El Salvador
Has/Have either Luis or his parents travelled abroad?

The auxiliary verb is closest to "Luis", which is singular,
but "parents" is plural...

...so, which one is correct, Has or Have?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:25:38 AM

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I think they could both be argued to be right - but to me, the plural sounds better.

For a start (as you note) one of the choices is plural. (his parents)
Secondly there are plural choices. (Luis and his parents)

Have either Luis or his parents travelled abroad?
It seems fitting.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
BobShilling
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 3:07:10 PM
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I think they could both be argued to be right - but to me, the plural sounds better.


To me, too.
Helenej
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 5:46:37 PM

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Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
capitán wrote:
Has/Have either Luis or his parents travelled abroad?

The auxiliary verb is closest to "Luis", which is singular, but "parents" is plural...

According to the proximity rule, the verb in an or, either/or, or neither/nor sentence agrees with the noun or pronoun closest to it.

So, it should be “Has either Luis or his parents travelled abroad?”.

I only doubt that anyone would word the question like this. “Has Luis or his parents travelled abroad?” sounds more natural.

Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 7:51:01 PM

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Hello, Capitán.

If I were choosing I would choose plural because there is a plural subject and it sounds better to native speakers. Be aware though that some do follow the "Proximity Rule". So it looks as if either is permissible. Take your pick.

http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/either_or_plural_or_singular_verb.htm




The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
renee talley 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:36:30 PM
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Anxious Anxious Think Anxious Starting with have either to have ( instead of have either) + have or also not used with grammar incorrect and doesn't make any type of common sense nor horse sense. Even though Luis is singular and parents is plural makes more
sense; Has eihter Luis or his parents traveled abroard.Dancing Applause Dancing Applause Applause
Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 1:58:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Hope123 wrote:
It sounds better to native speakers.

I wonder what makes some people speak for 360 million native English speakers?

Hope123 wrote:
If I were choosing I would choose plural.

If numerous writers who have their books published were choosing, they would choose singular.

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=wk63GBHv5awC&pg=PA14&dq=%22is+he+or%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigga2h2OjdAhVMFCwKHXAfB8w4WhDoAQhuMAk#v=onepage&q=%22is%20he%20or%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=nW2MAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKkenuuundAhUuqIsKHc82AOA4ChDoAQhsMAk#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=pWVQAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA244&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKm9myvOndAhXEo4sKHVK-CXY4MhDoAQhDMAQ#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=6fiS_bWAvQIC&pg=PT153&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik8ICCvundAhUDtYsKHYTVDJQ4ZBDoAQhtMAk#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=gUbJAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA111&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjylYzBvundAhWChywKHeLnDQg4eBDoAQhSMAY#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=gZ1yPm25ljYC&pg=PT462&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp9YDlvundAhUGVywKHVPWCIs4ggEQ6AEIRTAE#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=HhkNBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA96&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4jN2hv-ndAhVLBywKHdEdDYI4lgEQ6AEIOzAD#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=0Cxx_ZOsBc0C&pg=PA483&dq=%22they+or+he%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJiNakuundAhVs-yoKHT8WBpkQ6AEINTAC#v=onepage&q=%22they%20or%20he%22&f=false

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=qeVOAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA128&dq=%22has+he+or%22&hl=uk&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXhaayuendAhVIBywKHd_IC9I4MhDoAQgmMAA#v=onepage&q=%22has%20he%20or%22&f=false

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 2:40:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,645
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
"It sounds better to native speakers" is not "It sounds better to all native speakers."

It does sound better to native speakers - Bob, Hope and me.
There are no native speakers on this forum who have said that the singular sounds better.

However, as it says on the Grammar-monster image which Hope posted:

Quote:
"If any element is plural, the verb is plural. (Either the dogs or Sarah are guilty.)
. . .
"An alternative convention: Under the Proximity Rule, the element nearest the verb governs it. (Either the dogs or Sarah is guilty. Either the dogs or Sarah are guilty.)"


Take your choice. Both are correct (under different conventions).

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 2:50:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 545
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
"It sounds better to native speakers" is not "It sounds better to all native speakers."

It does sound better to native speakers - Bob, Hope and me.
There are no native speakers on this forum who have said that the singular sounds better.

However, as it says on the Grammar-monster image which Hope posted:

Quote:
"If any element is plural, the verb is plural. (Either the dogs or Sarah are guilty.)
. . .
"An alternative convention: Under the Proximity Rule, the element nearest the verb governs it. (Either the dogs or Sarah is guilty. Either the dogs or Sarah are guilty.)"


Take your choice. Both are correct (under different conventions).



Applause Applause Applause
Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 3:07:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
"It sounds better to native speakers" is not "It sounds better to all native speakers."
It does sound better to native speakers - Bob, Hope and me.

I see. Three is a really convincing number as compared to 360 million.

I think Hope will appreciate you interpreting her statements and trying to be her advocate. Anyway, she should have worded her sentences more carefully in order not to mislead the original poster.


Drag0nspeaker wrote:
However, as it says on the Grammar-monster image which Hope posted...

Tons of other images, sites and books say the opposite.
https://theeditorsblog.net/2015/09/12/either-neither-and-subject-verb-agreement/

Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Take your choice.

You too.

BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 3:56:40 AM
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Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 545
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Let us be grateful that we have some non-native speakers on this forum whose grasp of English and civil approach to other members help make this place a pleasant place to be most of the time.
Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 4:33:01 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
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Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
BobShilling wrote:
Let us be grateful that we have some non-native speakers on this forum whose grasp of English and civil approach to other members help make this place a pleasant place to be most of the time.

Let us be grateful that we have some native speakers on this forum who are learning to live with the feeling that it is less harmful for them to behave in a more restrained and tolerant way when they hear an opinion that does not coincide with theirs. They are starting to realize that it is less damaging for them to just pick up their fallen crown of "I-am-the-most-knowledgeable-person-here" and put it back on their head without having a conniption.
capitán
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 3:13:37 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/18/2013
Posts: 484
Neurons: 21,607
Location: San Salvador, San Salvador, El Salvador
Thank you very much for helping out!
I appreciate it.
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