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If you go to Florida and ... Options
onsen
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 1:30:20 AM
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Hello,

Quote:
If you go to Florida and get a sunburn, your complexion will look florid.
(Basic Word List, Barron’s)


Do 'Florida' and 'florid' constitute a pun?

..........................................
Sorry, probably it is not a pun. (edit)

Thank you


thar
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 2:35:51 AM

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No, not really, because in that sentence the word means what it should.

The point about a pun is that you take a word and make it mean something else.

eg

Have you ever tried to eat a clock? It's very time-consuming.


They are often jokes that only make sense when they are said aloud, because they involve homophones
eg
Yesterday I accidentally swallowed some food coloring. The doctor says I'm OK, but I feel like I've dyed a little inside.
What's black and white and read all over? A newspaper

Or running words together
A friend of mine tried to annoy me with bird puns, but I soon realized that toucan play at that game.
When an escaped prisoner was caught camping out in the woods it was a clear case of criminal in tent.
When is a door not a door? When its ajar.
What time should you go to the dentist? Two thirty.

They play with idioms, what words and phrases mean
eg
I wasn't originally going to get a brain transplant, but then I changed my mind.
Why don't some couples go to the gym? Because some relationships don't work out.

Or they take a common meaning and change it around
What time is it when an elephant sits on your fence? Time to get a new fence.
Why should the number 288 never be mentioned in company? Because it is two gross.

And even if it isn't exactly the same sound, you can sometimes get away with an approximation
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
Knock! Knock! Who’s there? Wooden shoe. Wooden shoe who? Wooden shoe like to hear another joke?

'florid' only means one thing, so it is not actually a pun, at least in my opinion. It is finding amusement in putting the two similar words together, but each keeps its own meaning - Florida and florid. In a pun, something has to change meaning from what it expected of it.


Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 3:40:25 AM

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I think that this is what one would normally call a 'play on words' - it's one of the most common styles of British comedy.

A pun is one type of 'play on words'.

The American dictionaries do not seem to differentiate - calling all plays on words 'puns'.

pun n.
A play on words, sometimes on different senses of the same word and sometimes on the similar sense or sound of different words.
American Heritage
- the humorous use of a word or phrase so as to emphasise or suggest its different meanings or applications, or the use of words that are alike or nearly alike in sound but different in meaning; a play on words. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary

Whereas the British Collins Dictionary is a little more strict, classifying only plays on words which use ambiguous meanings and innuendos as being 'puns'.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 3:48:15 AM
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Drago -

"The American dictionaries do not seem to differentiate - calling all plays on words 'puns'." Thanks for that - I hadn't realised. It explains quite a few responses we've had here that have left me completely baffled.

I've also noticed they don't recognise satire or irony as genre, but refer to them under the umbrella of 'sarcasm'?

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 7:39:59 AM

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I know what you mean - I have suffered from having humorous ironic statements taken to be bitter sarcastic attacks.

The dictionaries don't do it - it seems to be just the 'national mindset' of competition/opposition which colours it. Nothing in the definitions of 'irony' mentions 'cutting', 'derision', 'contempt', 'bitter' and so on.

i·ro·ny n.
a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.

1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning.

[color=darkred]sar·casm n.
1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to express contempt or ridicule.[/color]
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 8:22:45 AM
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Indeed! Being a rather sardonic person, you've probably seen how often I too come in for the same thing.Boo hoo!

What brought that non-recognition of satire home to me: - was reading a blog written by a convener of one of many many Jane Austen societies.This one represented a nation-wide group of American writers of Regency Romance novels. The blog concerned the recent discovery by the blog writer, that references to novel-reading in Austen's works were satirical. This was discussed at length in on-going comments.

And I wondered to myself how you could possibly read Jane Austen and not recognise that she was a satirist? (Or why you'd read her if so, quite frankly!).

This explains, for me, why we cop flack at times.

(Actually, I've often watched interviews with stand-up comedians who say that this is one of the differences about what makes American audiences laugh.)



Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 9:09:59 AM

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I must admit, when I was growing up, I couldn't understand why there was so much difference between American comedy shows and British ones - could you compare "I Love Lucy" to "Hancock's Half-Hour"?

I can sit and enjoy total slapstick occasionally, but I prefer satire.

Even the "Carry-on" series - though they contained a lot of slapstick-type fooling about - were riddled with double-entendres and puns.
I'm sure there are a LOT of Americans who appreciate that sort of humour, but "The Great American Public", as a mass, don't seem to be able to get beyond slapstick (at least, not from the sort of comedy program I have seen exported).
I find the witty banter in "Colombo" funnier than all the screaming and laughing in "I Love Lucy".


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
FounDit
Posted: Monday, October 1, 2018 4:54:32 PM

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Humor seems to be a very personal and individual thing, though there do seem to be tropes that differing societies like. And though I'm American, I find slapstick to rarely be funny at all. I don't know why so many like the Three Stooges or I Love Lucy.

British humor was a bit different, and my first encounter with it was Monty Python's Flying Circus back in the 60's. Much of it I liked, but some just fell flat for me, probably because I didn't get some of the social references.

One that used to make me really laugh was Keeping Up Appearances with Mrs. Bucket (It's pronounced "Bouquet"). I still laugh every time I think of her.

I like puns and satire if it isn't mean-spirited, but in today's world, everything has become so politicized one can hardly joke at all without someone taking offense, and demanding that such harm to their psyche never be inflicted on them. Even political cartoonists are lamenting a dearth of topics on which to opine.

But, hopefully, we'll all muddle through, and once again become civil societies at some point in the future.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 2:18:36 AM

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Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
HI!
Yes - as I said, my opinion was based purely on what I remember of TV shows (and that's forty years ago!).

Monty Python was . . . different!

My mother had friends called Mr & Mrs Sidebottom. The wife always pronounced it "sidaybotaam" - her husband thought it was hilarious!

Satire and Irony don't HAVE to be nasty - If you've ever read Asterix and Obelix (cartoons), there is a whole book pointing out things the authors (who are Belgian, I think) find funny about Britain and British people - from food to Rugby and from accents to tea-breaks (but, of course, tea had not been discovered in those days).
I don't know any British person who has taken offence at that - and many think that it's the best Asterix book ever written!




Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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