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Comma after ""Wong"? Options
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:00:55 AM
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The thing is, the government has repeatedly insisted that you do own your flat stating that you can transact on it. Both PM Lee and National Development Minister, Lawrence Wong have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him declaring:

"They can also sell their properties and benefit from any upside, or rent it out if they choose to.....important to set the record straight".

So why is Should there be a comma after "Wong"?

Thanks.
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:53:55 PM
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EDIT

The thing is, the government has repeatedly insisted that you do own your flat stating that you can transact on it. Both PM Lee and National Development Minister, Lawrence Wong have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him declaring:

"They can also sell their properties and benefit from any upside, or rent it out if they choose to.....important to set the record straight".

Should there be a comma after "Wong"?

Thanks.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 2:16:24 PM

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Koh Elaine wrote:
EDIT

The thing is, the government has repeatedly insisted that you do own your flat stating that you can transact on it. Both PM Lee and National Development Minister, Lawrence Wong have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him declaring:

"They can also sell their properties and benefit from any upside, or rent it out if they choose to.....important to set the record straight".

Should there be a comma after "Wong"?

Thanks.


No, I don't think so. If you omit the descriptions of "Both" and just use that word, it would be, "Both have defended HDB...".

You could also say, "Both of them have defended HDB...".

I think the only reason it looks like there should be a comma is because you have the title of Mr. Lawrence Wong inserted before his name, and the comma was used there to separate his title from his name, and I think it is unnecessary.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:41:54 PM
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Thanks, FounDit.

1. I think the only reason it looks like there should be a comma is because you have the title of Mr. Lawrence Wong inserted before his name, and the comma was used there to separate his title from his name, and I think it is unnecessary. (I agree.)

2. "reason...is because' - I was taught that reason should not be used with because? It seems native speakers ignore this rule. Could you shed some light on it? Thanks.
NKM
Posted: Thursday, September 6, 2018 5:19:57 PM

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Just remove the extraneous comma from "National Development Minister Lawrence Wong".

BobShilling
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 4:05:16 AM
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Koh Elaine wrote:
Both PM Lee and National Development Minister, Lawrence Wong have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him [...]

Should there be a comma after "Wong"?


Never put a single comma between a subject and its verb. either delete that comma, or use two commas, one before 'Lawrence' and one after 'Wong'. Two commas used in this way function like parentheses.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 8:34:18 AM

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Hi!

You are right about "reason . . . is because". It is redundant.

I think the only reason it looks like there should be a comma is that you have . . .
or
I think it looks like there should be a comma just because you have . . .

It is very easy to make a mistake (especially when the phrase between "reason" and "that" is very long. The concept in the writer's mind could be "the reason that" and "because" and "as" and "so that" - You will often hear a mixture by mistake.
"The reason . . . is because", "The reason . . . is so that".
Even a proofreader can miss it at times!

*************
Bob's rule is good - if you have a long phrase between subject and verb, it has to have an even number of commas (counting zero as even). I think, in this sentence, it needs to be two - or, better still, a pair of parentheses.
In my opinion "National Development Minister" is not an appellation. You can say "Prince Henry" (in which "Prince" is a position title and an appellation) - but you don't use someone's job description as part of their name.

Here comes Prince Henry!
Here comes Garbage Collector George Smith.
Here comes National Development Minister Lawrence Wong.
Here comes President Trump.
Here comes the President of the United States (Donald Trump).
Here comes Lawrence Wong, National Development Minister.
Both the Prime Minister (Mr Lee) and the National Development Minister (Lawrence Wong) have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
NKM
Posted: Friday, September 7, 2018 2:56:01 PM

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Job description?

"National Development Minister" — with each word capitalize — looks to me very much like an official title. If it's a "job description", it's a decidedly un-descriptive one.

Koh Elaine
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 6:09:21 AM
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Thanks to all of you.
Koh Elaine
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 6:18:30 AM
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NKM wrote:
Job description?

"National Development Minister" — with each word capitalize — looks to me very much like an official title. If it's a "job description", it's a decidedly un-descriptive one.

Both PM Lee and National Development Minister, Lawrence Wong, have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him declaring:

Hi NKM, do you mean that there should be two commas, as shown above.?
NKM
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 4:08:41 PM

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No. I mean that there should be no commas.

palapaguy
Posted: Saturday, September 8, 2018 4:31:04 PM

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NKM wrote:
No. I mean that there should be no commas.

I agree with NKM.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:58:39 AM

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So you would both write "Both PM Lee and Garbage Collector John Smith have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him . . ."?

Think It somehow doesn't seem right to me. I realise that it's an extreme, but it's exactly the same concept. John Smith's post is "Garbage Collector" - perhaps I should have said 'job title' rather than 'job description' - Lawrence Wong's post is "National Development Minister".

"Both Mr Lee (the Prime Minister) and John Smith (the garbage collector) have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him . . ." looks better to me.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
NKM
Posted: Sunday, September 9, 2018 8:19:45 PM

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I wouldn't have capitalized "garbage collector", but I still wouldn't have used any commas.

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, September 10, 2018 5:03:28 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
HmmmThink Interesting.

OK. I would consider those job titles to be additional (parenthetic) data.
The important thing is the person - additional data is what they do for a living.

This would require the use of an article.

"Both Mr Lee (the Prime Minister) and John Smith (a garbage collector) have defended HDB ownership vehemently with him . . ."

But, OK - if you want to use a job title as an appellation, you can.

My opinion (very strictly opinion!) is that a person is not at all defined by the job they happen to have right now.
I've worked as a groundsman (digging ditches, building decorative dams and clearing sewers) to Executive Director of a small (thirty staff) company, to "Teacher's assistant", to Senior Quality Exec with juniors in quality control divisions of companies all over the UK. Now I earn my wages as a security guard - it doesn't change anything except where the money comes from.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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