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Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers Options
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 11:43:01 AM

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My post is copied from another thread that decries Trump's acceptance of a country such as North Korea - because of its inhumanity. I would especially like comments from Trump supporters so I put it into a thread so that all might see it.
::

United States - a country where recently international law is being broken because little children are ripped from their asylum-seeking parents' arms while American Congress dithers in fear of the man who is using those children as pawns in a deadly "game" to get a wall. Have you ever seen the fear on the face of a two-year who has lost their parents at a mall? It is no game to these people. It is their lives. These are NOT ILLEGALS. They are asylum seekers. The children are being put into tents in a hot climate with high temperatures in the summer.

Separating families, along with Guantanamo, torture, lies, astigmatizing of the press, implying a call to kill a political opponent or even just to try to "lock her up" when the justice department says she did nothing more than he and his cronies and even the FBI head did himself, or for the desire of that man to be "president for life - need I go on? - the US is becoming more like NK every day.

Congress fiddles while one man lights a new fire every day in order to get his own way and to further his wealth and that of his family.

It looks as if the legal department is the only one to try to stop this nonsense and him. There is outrage about this practice of separating familes by many people who watch the news besides Fox (that condones it).

Lawyers such as Michael Avenatti are weighing in. Canadians are urging their government to take the momentous step of sending back from Canada the US-ambassador-to-Canada.

So sad what one person can do to a country in a ittle over a year, cheered on by supporters as he rides on the sleeve of the economic policies of a former president, all the while removing changes that were placed to prevent 2008 all over again. And changes to take the country backward in all areas.

http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst183068_tRump.aspx?find=unread

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Stephen Senter🇺🇸📰
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 12:23:04 PM

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You have to be carefully don't let bad people in USA! USA have to many MS13?
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 4:04:41 PM

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When citizens who are parents commit crimes -- they go to jail -- and they are separated from their children!!!!! OH, NO!


When illegals enter this country, they are committing crimes -- and they go to jail -- and they are separated from their children!!!!! OH, NO!

Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 4:23:35 PM

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This is a disgrace, we need to put a shroud over the Statue of Liberty,

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Not any more get the fick out!

Now Women with children fleeing from gangs trying to recruit their children to be gang members are no longer considered legitimate asylum seekers.

Christian nation my ass!


Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
philips daughter
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 8:49:31 PM

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Actually, people who apply for assylum aren’t committing any crime by applying. And when a citizen is jailed their children aren’t put in detention.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2018 12:23:51 PM

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There are people all around the world who live in terrible conditions, and sometimes under brutal dictators; and so shall it ever be because of human nature.

That said, it is neither the duty, nor the obligation of the citizens of the United States to take into our society all such people, especially when they show up at our borders and cross into the country illegally. Just as a matter of an intelligent thought (knowing that is an alien concept to the original poster, "What is the temporary separation of the parent from their children here in the U.S. where they are well-cared for, compared to the conditions from which they flee?" If this is considered a horrible thing, then how terrible can their original condition really be?

But I waste my time here. This is evanescent acumen on public display, and unworthy or response, really, for there is no possibility for rational discouse on the other side, as evidenced by the demagogic language Hope quoted, and which was disappointingly, but not unexpectedly, supported by other posters.






We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Lotje1000
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2018 3:33:52 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Just as a matter of an intelligent thought (knowing that is an alien concept to the original poster [...]


Yet I remember you telling us all:

FounDit wrote:
The difference is, I don't get angry and call you names, or impugn your character by calling you derogatory names as so many on the Progressive Left do with us.


You may not be 'name calling' in the strictest sense, but you're doing a great job of demonstrating that derogatory talk you accuse others of.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2018 4:56:11 PM

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Inhumanity should not be a partisan issue, nor used as a political lever.

Nor is it ever excusable, no matter the arguments to defend it.





Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
progpen
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2018 9:53:48 PM

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I've just been reading that Evangelicals and other churches in the US have begun turning on the White House and their Caligulaic orgy of punishing "others". Seems that many US churches see these incoming families filling their pews as a good thing and, even more, are beginning to talk about it. The Rude Pundit was on point as he discussed possible motive for the change of heart that quite a few US churches have made (but alas, not enough of it could be quoted here to make it worthwhile).


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/trump-immigration-religion.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront

"A coalition of evangelical groups, including the National Association of Evangelicals and the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, sent a letter to President Trump on June 1 pleading with him to protect the unity of families and not to close off all avenues to asylum for immigrants and refugees fleeing danger."

"The Southern Baptist Convention, a conservative evangelical denomination that is the nation’s largest Protestant church, passed a resolution on Tuesday at its meeting in Dallas calling for immigration reform that maintains “the priority of family unity.” The measure called for both securing the nation’s borders, and providing a pathway to legal status for undocumented immigrants living in the country. It passed on a near unanimous vote of the thousands of delegates in the room."


"When Vice President Mike Pence addressed the Southern Baptists on Wednesday, his speech hailing the accomplishments of the administration received only a mixed reception."
Pence received a mixed reception to a speech to the Southern Baptists. That is noteworthy.



Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
philips daughter
Posted: Monday, June 18, 2018 11:24:58 PM

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San Antonio local news stations are showing little children sitting in pens crying with no one to pick them up and comfort them. There are only 4 social workers for 1,200 children. I have hopes the Southern Baptist have a conscience. Then they say Trump still has 42% approval. So, I worry that it’s too late.

mactoria
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:12:11 AM
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Hope: I'm not the Trump supporter you're looking for, but have to comment anyway.

I keep thinking I can't get any more appalled about what Trump does ...then something makes my head explode, like incarcerating young children in cages and tent camps, deporting their parents but having no system to keep parents/kids tracked together, so the kids wind up being separately deported unattached to their native countries. This and the people directing these actions are morally bankrupt. Like the infamous "Muslim ban" he ordered after his inauguration, there was no planning or thought of consequences for real people because who cares about "them." So we have a big humanitarian mess, and once again the US is an international pariah as only dictatorships and fifth-world anarchies would do this to human beings, documented or not. People are being detained, stripped of their kids, and deported who tried to claim asylum at designated border crossings but were turned away because --- wait for it --- our gov't was unprepared and can't deal with this rush of refugees, so they crossed where they could and were arrested. We knew for more than a month these refugees were coming from Latin America, Trump tweeted up a storm about this 'horde' of people coming north. This 'horde' is desperate people seeking safety with a few bad guys trying to get in under the cover of asylum; an effective gov't puts into place screening plans and enough people to do that job, instead of giving out no-bid contracts to cronies for tents, cages, vacant buildings, etc.

We do need better control of our immigration process; it's been inadequate for years while both parties (I'm an independent) used it to batter each other. Picking on desperate people fleeing gangs, dictators, and death squads in Latin America isn't a solution. 30-40% of undocumented persons in the US are people who overstayed visitors visas from non-Hispanic countries, but we don't do a thing about that (like putting together a decent visa tracking system) because some people don't like the growing number of brown-skinned people in our country. Instead we incarcerate little kids crying for their "papi" and "mami" who they may not see for months if ever. Outraged Americans need to create hell until this is shut down and replaced with a decent refugee screening system.

I'm a second generation American from European stock; I know what led my grandparents to come to the US and the same things are drawing the fleeing families at our southern borders now: freedom, safety, and opportunity. The only differences are the darkness of their complexions and the accent they speak with. We need to grant asylum to those that need it, and join with our North-South American neighbors to find a solution to the rampant terror in Honduras, El Salvador, etc. so people don't need to flee these countries.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:54:22 AM

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One other item of note for those who live outside the US. The republican party has been very open that their reason for the family separation is as leverage against the democrats to get their legislation passed (something they can't do themselves because they can't agree on squat).

So once again we see the republican party leadership has taken hostages (this time literally) in order to force democrats to vote for something because the republican party leadership can't get their own people to support them.

But even if the democrats do end up voting with republicans, the hostage taking will continue and the democrats will continue to be scapegoats.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:27:09 AM

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During the Obama administration, Customs and Border Protection responded to occasional surges in asylum requests by opening temporary processing facilities nearby. The Trump administration, to date, has not taken such steps.

It is against American law to refuse asylum seekers at ports of entry, but that is exactly what is happening and as Mactoria says the admin knew they were coming but did not act.

Just another example of inefficiency by inexperienced people in charge not knowing what they are doing creating unnecessary messes - which are then used by T to energize his base.

There are laws that could be changed as in other countries such as fines for border crossing if no asylum is granted rather than making it, albeit only a misdemeanour, a criminal offence. Families could be housed together - children even going to school while the parents wait for their claims to be heard.

Proggy, yes, immigration has been a contentious issue for years in the US because it became a partisan political issue. Without that, the immigration reform needed could have been settled years ago.

Americans from both parties who oppose this April policy by Sessions and authorized by Trump of separating families (it is not a law) are sadly mistaken if they think appealing to the empathy of diehard Trump supporters will work any more than logic and facts. We see that right in this thread..


Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:39:04 AM

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In response to Laura Bush, who uncharacteristically spoke out about this and said it is not American, a CBC journalist wrote a wake up objective opinion piece. Too bad Americans who need to read it won't see it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trump-immigration-1.4711365

This is not America? Oh, yes, it is: Neil Macdonald
Trump has sensed that his voters want ruthlessness, and he's delivering


Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:44:44 PM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
FounDit wrote:
Just as a matter of an intelligent thought (knowing that is an alien concept to the original poster [...]


Yet I remember you telling us all:

FounDit wrote:
The difference is, I don't get angry and call you names, or impugn your character by calling you derogatory names as so many on the Progressive Left do with us.


You may not be 'name calling' in the strictest sense, but you're doing a great job of demonstrating that derogatory talk you accuse others of.


Calling an intelligent person a fool is to insult them; for the fool, it is a statement of fact. I merely stated facts.

More facts:
Trump isn't taking children from their parents. If the illegals do not seek asylum, they and their children are sent back to their home country, because entering illegally for the first time is only a misdemeanor offense.

However, entering again after the first time is a felony offense, a violation of Federal Law. If they do claim asylum, then the children are cared for over a 20 day period while the claim is being processed, then they are reunited (and usually turned loose into the U.S.).

But all of this is a manufactured crisis by the Progressive Left. These laws have been on the books for 20 years. Obama swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and did not do it, violating it repeatedly, but that was okay with the Left. Obama fails to enforce the law = Good.

Trump swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and enforces the laws = Bad. But the Progressive Left gins up these kinds of attacks to deflect from the near total corruption of the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign. But it's all going to come out anyway, and I've no doubt history will record the Obama Administration as one of the most corrupt we've ever had.




We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:44:13 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
In response to Laura Bush, who uncharacteristically spoke out about this and said it is not American, a CBC journalist wrote a wake up objective opinion piece. Too bad Americans who need to read it won't see it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trump-immigration-1.4711365

This is not America? Oh, yes, it is: Neil Macdonald
Trump has sensed that his voters want ruthlessness, and he's delivering


It was very nice to see Laura Bush speak out. I think it took quite a few here in the US by surprise.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:50:06 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
Inhumanity should not be a partisan issue, nor used as a political lever.

Nor is it ever excusable, no matter the arguments to defend it.


We have also heard the White House say that they are only obeying existing law by separating children from their families, but that has actually been debunked as well. This has not stopped the White House from continuing to say so. Which brings up another item that I've heard recently and am very happy to find that it has finally made it to the mainstream media. It seems that the mainstream media has realized that the current occupant of the White House takes a half baked idea and simply repeats it until he believes it, then he continues to repeat it until his followers believe it. From that point on he doesn't care because as long as he and his followers believe something to be true, it is true.

I'm so glad to know that the corporate media have finally figured this out.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:20:03 PM

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I guess if anything, it's a comfort knowing that FD doesn't worry that damn near everything he says has already been disproved several times over.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:08:21 PM

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progpen wrote:
I guess if anything, it's a comfort knowing that FD doesn't worry that damn near everything he says has already been disproved several times over.


Applause Applause Applause

There are cases of asylum parents being deported without their children right now and lawyers are taking these people on as clients. Govt statistics show that Obama deported 2.5 million people, more than the sum of all the 20th century presidents combined. He was called "Deporter in Chief". And he did it humanely. He has been the only American president without a scandal. And so forth. It is not only the left that is upset about this inhumanity.

The obsession with Obama and Hillary by Trump voters when they are no longer in power in comparison to Trump shows an inordinate amount of jealousy.. I have no doubt that there is no need to wait for history that this administration is the most corrupt so far with all the profiteering going on right out in the open.

Proggy and Lotje,

The fact FD finds it necessary to resort to ad hominem means that I get under FD's skin because I come out on top every time with the facts and he knows he's already lost any argument he can present.

In order for him to insult me, I need to value his opinion. It was a nice try though.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:30:56 PM

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Senator Mazie Hirono has come into the spotlight recently.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/392859-dem-senator-calls-gop-gutless-for-not-doing-more-to-stop-family
Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii) on Monday called GOP lawmakers “gutless wonders” and called for every person employed in the Trump administration who “lies” for President Trump to resign.

“Every person in this administration who lies for @realDonaldTrump should resign,” Hirono said in a tweet.



https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/617239314/the-quiet-rage-of-mazie-hirono
The Senate's only immigrant takes that fight to President Trump, whom she openly calls "xenophobic" and a "liar." "To call the president a liar, that is not good, but it happens to be the truth," the soft-spoken Hawaii senator told Time recently.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/19/mazie-hirono-those-who-lie-for-the-president-sold-/
She said that Democrats, while heartened by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and other Republicans speaking out, are bracing for more hard-line policies because of Trump senior adviser Stephen Miller and Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, who influence the president and are “totally anti-immigrant.”

“To me, Steve Miller is like Iago, whispering in the president’s ear,” she said.

Ms. Hirono also called for members of the Trump administration to step down if they have lied for the president.


Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:00:01 PM
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Actually, I've been encouraged by how many Republican Senators, and famous figures, and even Trump cronies like 'The Mooch' (god, why do so many of them delight in these Mafia-like names?) have spoken, and are continuing to speak up.

And rest assured, Proggie, the rest of the world knew from the get-go this had nothing to do with the Democrats and Law, but more to do with Jeff Sessions and Trump.

Every country has condemned this inhumanity, from the UN down: it has united everyone. And of course, since the video of the children crying came out, those like Miller, Sessions and those that still keep repeating their insane and transparently stupid lies are shown as the ghastly people they really are.

So don't worry that anyone would think the American people support these moves: it's well known that it's only the base who do, and now they are not even counted as being "Republicans" in political discussions; but as part of a separate Trump "team".


Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:17:11 PM

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Proggy, good for the Senator from Hawaii. I loved the last two sentences in the article on the second link. It would be encouraging if her intelligent thoughts would snowball in congress and senate and they were to actually do something bipartisan. She speaks for millions of Americans as well as the rest of the civilized world.


From a border security perspective this zero-tolerance policy adds nothing to securing the borders and is just tactical terrorism. Especially since there was no plan in place to begin with, if they don't reunify the families quickly, many children may never be reunited and will remain as wards in the US.

Trump just withdrew from the UN Human Rights Council citing anti-Israel bias. Not so strangely, it came the day after the UN Human Rights Commissioner criticized Trump's zero-tolerance policy on asylum seekers: "The thought that any state would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable".

What an intelligent thinker this commissioner is!



Of course he might have to explain to Trump et al not only the meaning of unconscionable, but the feelings that go with it.

At the same time he should talk slowly to Trump and tell him the difference between tariffs and duties, because with recent statements he made, Trump obviously has no idea they are not one and the same.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 10:39:34 AM

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I see I have been proven correct in my assessment..."there is no possibility for rational discourse on the other side, as evidenced by the demagogic language..."

For any who are capable of rational discourse, here is a link that covers the topic without demagoguery. I feel duty-bound to warn Progressives, however, it comes from a Conservative website, so encountering logical thinking may cause your head to explode. You have been warned...Whistle

Separating Kids at the Border


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 11:53:27 AM

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Romany wrote:
Actually, I've been encouraged by how many Republican Senators, and famous figures, and even Trump cronies like 'The Mooch' (god, why do so many of them delight in these Mafia-like names?) have spoken, and are continuing to speak up.

And rest assured, Proggie, the rest of the world knew from the get-go this had nothing to do with the Democrats and Law, but more to do with Jeff Sessions and Trump.

Every country has condemned this inhumanity, from the UN down: it has united everyone. And of course, since the video of the children crying came out, those like Miller, Sessions and those that still keep repeating their insane and transparently stupid lies are shown as the ghastly people they really are.

So don't worry that anyone would think the American people support these moves: it's well known that it's only the base who do, and now they are not even counted as being "Republicans" in political discussions; but as part of a separate Trump "team".


It has been heartening to see so much support coming from outside the US. It really does make a difference.

Edit: and again we see that at least he is consistent in lobbing personal insults at the drop of a hat. Refreshingly consistent.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:26:35 PM

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Is it possible that we are not talking about monsters and evil but, rather ineffective laws that need to be revised? The ability to dehumanize is dangerous. I find it ironic that the loudest and angriest about the treatment of the children are also the ones calling for violence. The feeling of outrage is valid but the issues should have been corrected long ago. Case in point, https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html. From the article- The report concluded that administration “policies and procedures were inadequate to protect the children in the agency’s care.”

Securing the borders should not equate to being heartless. This will be fixed and it will be fixed under the Trump Administration.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:31:58 PM

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Listening . . . wrote:
I find it ironic that the loudest and angriest about the treatment of the children are also the ones calling for violence.


Hi Listening. Who is calling for violence? I've not seen discussions about this issue where those opposing the separation of children from their family are calling for violence, but would be very interested to know if it is happening.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:40:46 PM

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progpen wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
I find it ironic that the loudest and angriest about the treatment of the children are also the ones calling for violence.


Hi Listening. Who is calling for violence? I've not seen discussions about this issue where those opposing the separation of children from their family are calling for violence, but would be very interested to know if it is happening.



Plenty of examples-

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/20/peter-fonda-tweets-wants-to-rip-barron-trump-from-his-mother-and-put-him-in-cage-with-pedophiles.amp.html

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/17/kathy-griffin-attacks-melania-trump/

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/dhs-secretary-mexican-restaurant-heckled/

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/06/leftist-actor-goes-on-unhinged-rant-calling-for-a-trump-coup-hit-the-streets

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:42:08 PM

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Today, sometime about lunch time, the pres. said that he will do something unilaterally (exec order, I imagine) so that children can stay with parents - then get the law sorted out later.

This will probably involve violating the Flores ruling, so someone will be up in arms about him doing that.

*************
Hi Listening.
Quite a Tweet from Peter Fonda!

However, the last one calls for civil disobedience, not violence.

Big difference - Ask Gandhi!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:00:09 PM

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Listening . . . wrote:
progpen wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
I find it ironic that the loudest and angriest about the treatment of the children are also the ones calling for violence.


Hi Listening. Who is calling for violence? I've not seen discussions about this issue where those opposing the separation of children from their family are calling for violence, but would be very interested to know if it is happening.



Plenty of examples-

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/20/peter-fonda-tweets-wants-to-rip-barron-trump-from-his-mother-and-put-him-in-cage-with-pedophiles.amp.html

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/17/kathy-griffin-attacks-melania-trump/

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/dhs-secretary-mexican-restaurant-heckled/

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/06/leftist-actor-goes-on-unhinged-rant-calling-for-a-trump-coup-hit-the-streets



Ah, I see. Thank you Listening.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 4:06:00 PM

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The outrage made optics that got too bad, and lawsuits were pending. Trump just signed an order that was an option the justice department gave him that families are not to be separated. Let's hope it will be retroactive.

Listening is correct - this should have been fixed thirty years ago or more with that border being such a problem. With an all Republican government, maybe this will be the time it gets done? Immigration reform, DACA, and what to do with all the refugees hitting the border...

I'm not familiar with the European countries but think they are just as or maybe even harder hit, and there are other places where people are on the move from war, violence, and natural disasters. We can expect even more as people get displaced with climate change.

Believe it or not, Canada was called out by the UN for this very thing of separating families in the not too distant past under a different government, of course for a much smaller number. But even one child's psychological well being is important. Children stayed with their mothers but they had separated the mothers and children from the fathers, although they were allowed to visit. So our current government enacted a law that "detaining children is avoided unless there are serious safety or security issues. The majority of detained children in Canada accompany their parents who are taken into custody to avoid family separation, according to the Global Detention Project."

Parents who are detained for any reason - whether citizens or not - often face the difficult decision of surrendering their child to foster care or to taking them into detention with them. The parents make the choice.

Right now Canada is dealing with an ever increasing number of asylum seekers from the US. It is complicated by a Safe Country Agreement that many Canadians want repealed, saying the US is no longer a safe country. Maybe Trump's order will change their minds.

There are rational solutions when empathy demands changes. As Listening wisely says, "Securing the borders should not equate to being heartless."

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 5:30:51 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Today, sometime about lunch time, the pres. said that he will do something unilaterally (exec order, I imagine) so that children can stay with parents - then get the law sorted out later.

This will probably involve violating the Flores ruling, so someone will be up in arms about him doing that.

*************
Hi Listening.
Quite a Tweet from Peter Fonda!

However, the last one calls for civil disobedience, not violence.

Big difference - Ask Gandhi!



You are correct, Dragon. Here’s another example of violence, by definition, being promoted - https://ijr.com/2018/06/1104526-occupy-wall-street-tells-migrants/
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 5:36:09 PM

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Joined: 6/30/2011
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Hope, maybe ideas from Canada’s solution will help resolve the issue. Whatever takes place in the near future, I am hopeful it will be honed in order to avoid such catastrophe in the future.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 7:04:16 PM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Listening, I have no adjectives to describe the story on that last link. It has been taken down. It seems to be one person and not the group as a whole, thank goodness. Kathy Griffin was always weird but she seems to be getting worse. I didn't look at the Fonda quote. Ann Coulter is still out of her mind saying the children are just actors. It is good that most sensible people don't pay any attention any more to some of those who are way out there like Griffin and Coulter.

Why do there always have to be some who, as the saying goes, spoil it for the rest of us?

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 7:29:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,148
Neurons: 46,920
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I just checked the news - sadly Trump says there will be no extra effort to connect those separated already. Avenatti has a client who is going to be deported shortly and they won't - or can't - tell her where her daughter is. She fears she will never see her again. And there is a group of young boys waiting to be transported to other facilities. Some of those facilities are a 1000 miles away from their parents. Let's hope they get this sorted soon, the kids get back with their parents who are either accepted or deported according to individual cases, and that this will be a silver lining that it acts as a deterrent to others contemplating where to go to get away from violence.

I’m happy Trump caved and signed the order - and yet still astonished and sickened it was even necessary. An American lawyer says," President Trump signed an executive order to keep families together at the border. Let’s never forget that he created the crisis, blamed Democrats, and used children as pawns to get $25B to build a wall he said Mexico would pay for. Now how is he going to reunite families he tore apart?"

Public outcry keeping the pressure on was the answer.

Elitism is the slur directed at merit by mediocrity. -Sydney J. Harris, journalist (14 Sep 1917-1986)
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 9:59:59 PM

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Joined: 10/2/2015
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Location: Haddington, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hope123 wrote:
Public outcry keeping the pressure on was the answer.


Absolutely right. And in order to maintain that pressure this will need to stay in the public dialog so they do not forget or get distracted.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
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