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Kim Kardashian Captivates Trump. Options
TMe
Posted: Friday, June 1, 2018 10:10:42 AM

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The image appears before us like something out of a bad dream. He is seated behind the Resolute desk, his Chiclet teeth exposed in a rictus of extreme jollity. She is standing slightly behind him, considerably more sombre. In buttoned-up black, her long, dark locks tumbling in abundant waves, she is Botticelli’s Venus as channelled by Elvira, Mistress of the Dark—an icon of the Calabasas Renaissance. Her pose is stiff, her jacket sleeves pushed up in a gesture of can-do, eighties-style power-dressing. The familiar colors of the Oval Office appear newly garish, as if reflecting back to us those posing against them: the golden drapes and the gold of the man’s hair, the salmon chair and his ruddy skin, the flowing flags and the woman’s flowing mane. In an era rife with unbelievability, here was another near-unbelievable moment: the reality-TV mogul Kim Kardashian meeting with the reality-TV mogul Donald J. Trump, at the White House—an “American Gothic” for the age of gaudy, late-capitalist spectacle. The New Yorker. 31st May2018

Sir Wernich retweeted;
Replying to @realDonaldTrump @WhiteHouse @KimKardashian
And she is the perfect person to meet with you about that, because neither of you know anything about the subject.




Dancing Dancing Dancing Dancing Dancing Dancing


I am a layman.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, June 1, 2018 1:33:14 PM

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TME, I'm not sure exactly what your message is with these two photos. But to be serious for a moment, the New Yorker's caption is full of unnecessary sarcasm and negativity for both parties in the first photo.

I'm sure you know I don't like Trump and I don't know anything about Kim Kardashian except Americans talk a lot about her and her body. They love to ogle and yet on the other hand shame her. The New York Post cover was especially nasty to her about her using her celebrity for a good cause. I won't show it. It is very misogynistic, sexist, and disgusting.

Give Trump credit for seeing her. Give the woman credit. She went there to raise awareness about prison reform and sentencing. Americans in the know say prison reform is necessary. There are lots of problems and they are overflowing. I have compared sentences for the exact same crime in Canada and the US and have thought that the US sentence was often excessive - 5 times the length in one case I noted. Anyhow, Kardashian was there on behalf of Alice Marie Johnson, a 63-year-old woman who is serving a life sentence without parole for a first-time nonviolent drug offence. LIFE SENTENCE!

So a pardon for Johnson by Trump? Not when he released his pardon news this morning for a man, D'Souza, who has admitted guilt to financial crimes, was relentless in saying nasty things about Obama, and who believed in the birther movement. D'Souza tried for dismissal but the judge found he had not been not treated unfairly. There are real examples of prosecutorial misconduct, but this was not one of them. The punishment was less than the guidelines. The pardon is about Trump's unchained ego and partisan politics, not justice. His supporters see it as a jab at Liberals and love it.

Johnson may not have the right connections but maybe the outrage against the treatment of Kardashian by some media and the comparison that Trump pardoned D'Souza for less than pure motives, may help Johnson.

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
philips daughter
Posted: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:38:43 PM

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I think Trump is entranced by his newly discovered power of pardon. He is sending signals to those who are facing charges in his campaign that he will pardon them if they keep quiet. Which in itself seems like obstruction of justice.
mactoria
Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2018 4:56:25 AM
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[color=blue][quote=Hope123]TME, I'm not sure exactly what your message is with these two photos. But to be serious for a moment, the New Yorker's caption is full of unnecessary sarcasm and negativity for both parties in the first photo.


Hope123: agree with you on "unnecessary sarcasm and negativity for both parties." I'm not a fan of either Trump or Kardashian but am very tired of the meanness that is now just a given for some people/media about others they disagree with or don't like. Our discourse has been sorely coarsened in the past 3 yrs, we don't have to keep making it worse: 'turnabout' is not fairplay in my opinion. It has to stop somewhere.

As for Alice Johnson's case, from what I've read, seems she was convicted of a very serious felony (non-violent but running a cocaine trade to hundreds of users is dangerous and awful), though her attorney's has claimed she was really a minor player, not a kingpin. None of us out here knows what's true, that was up to the courts. The length of drug-related crimes such as she was convicted of (and others who were convicted of truly 'small potatoes' possession crimes) came from my country's attempt 3 decades ago to try to stamp out illegal drug trade by imprisoning those convicted till they were old/dead and making sentences high and mandatory. It didn't work, like everything else we've tried to deal with drug addiction and trade. We began to finally recognize this failure under Obama who granted clemency or pardons to numerous offenders who were jailed for excessive terms (often minorities or women, compared to whites and upper-class people who used the same drug but in a different, somehow more acceptable form). Alice Johnson's attorney asked Obama's DOJ to consider a pardon/clemency, but for reasons we don't know she wasn't. Possibly DOJ considered the facts of her case and determined she really was a cocaine kingpin who affected hundreds of users, or maybe DON just didn't have time and manpower to process her pardon request on top of the tens of thousands of similar cases that have accumulated since the 80s.

Obama's effort at getting us to recognize sentencing unfairness for drugs and other halted with the change of administrations; Trump's AG Sessions even re-lit the war on marijuana use which several states have legalized. If Kardashian can get Trump/Sessions to look at the inequity in our drug and other criminal sentencing, that would be great. I'm not a Kardashian fan but I don't care who carries this issue as long as it works. .And if this was just another celebrity photo op, then what's new?

TMe
Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2018 10:31:52 AM

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Hope123 wrote

TME, I'm not sure exactly what your message is with these two photos. But to be serious for a moment, the New Yorker's caption is full of unnecessary sarcasm and negativity for both parties in the first photo.

I'm sure you know I don't like Trump and I don't know anything about Kim Kardashian except Americans talk a lot about her and her body. They love to ogle and yet on the other hand shame her. The New York Post cover was especially nasty to her about her using her celebrity for a good cause. I won't show it. It is very misogynistic, sexist, and disgusting.

Mactoria wrote

Hope123: agree with you on "unnecessary sarcasm and negativity for both parties." I'm not a fan of either Trump or Kardashian but am very tired of the meanness that is now just a given for some people/media about others they disagree with or don't like. Our discourse has been sorely coarsened in the past 3 yrs, we don't have to keep making it worse: 'turnabout' is not fairplay in my opinion. It has to stop somewhere.
And if this was just another celebrity photo op, then what's new?


I agree with both of you and you both have questioned the whole occurence in your own way. But the question is, won’t it become a precedent?
.
Every celebrity or politician or businessman will come dancing to President Trump for variety of permissiveness.


And if this was just another celebrity photo op, then what's new...for The New Yorker? Important...mactoria.




I am a layman.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2018 11:33:32 AM

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TMe, celebrities have always used their celebrity to further causes they like. All kinds of people have had photo ops with Trump and other presidents. Don't whole sports teams who win go as a matter of tradition?

Each president sets his own course, so if Trump wants that as a precedent it will be. Trump and Kardashian have a lot in common as they both got where they are as reality stars. They don't need to "come dashing". Trump watches TV and decides on his own what to do - to pardon D'Souza for instance. A thought - did it say who intiated this photo op contact? I don't remember.


The next prez may not do similar photo ops. I don't see it as a problem. That's just my opinion.

Mactoria, I agree about the discourse having become meaner than ever. It has been getting worse and worse for some time with jeering in CDN and UK parliaments when it used to be the "loyal opposition" asked questions and held the government to account. There is nothing loyal about the opposition now in Canada. For example, to score some cheap political points with his base, the leader of the opposition just tried to make it look as if the CDN govt failed to get a NAFTA agreement when in fact it is the US refusing to talk unless a sunset clause is added. (Why would any investor put their money into any country knowing their company could lose their money in 5 years if the new agreement failed? Canada walked away because of that after Trump levied 25% tariffs on steel to bully Canada to accept their version of NAFTA.) In fact the negotiating team had been made up of both past and present from both parties. Canadians are not taking too kindly to the opposition leader's condemning tweets. Good for them. We need to stand up against partisan politics.

It also seems that nowadays with the internet people have a platform to take words out of context, exaggerate the import, leave out parts of stories so as to slant in one's direction, take one word to signify the whole when it is not the whole story, use one or two examples to magnify and make it seem as if the sky is falling, hear what one wants to hear and exploit it, box people into stereotypes, ignore other views while always slashing at the opposing political parties and policies, and as you say - often with just plain meanness. What happened to common sense and civility?

Here is a young woman, Kardashian, trying to help instead of taking. Millennials are pictured as being selfish, flighty, scaredy cats, etc. and any disagreement at institutions is blown up to make it seem these traits are so in all. Yet groups of teens rescuing people, volunteering in their own and other countries, going out of their way to help (for instance the 8 year-old who helped an old man with a walker to get up a whole flight of stairs, step by step) show that the majority of teens, millennials, and adults are not represented by the few.

That needs to be accented more and the media or ordinary people called out for their meanness. I believe there was quite a bit of outrage at the New York Post's cover page - so good for those who spoke against it. Good for all the people who have been in the streets protesting meanness and violence, no matter which group they represent.


The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2018 11:53:09 AM

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Hi Hope123, what irritates me is the one-point agenda of meeting, of exonerating Johnson. The discussion probably revolved on this point. That, it was on reforms is doubtful. IMO

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2018 1:23:11 PM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
Hi Hope123, what irritates me is the one-point agenda of meeting, of exonerating Johnson. The discussion probably revolved on this point. That, it was on reforms is doubtful. IMO


You are probably correct. I had not thought of that but is there hope it could generalize with Trump because of the publicity? She still was using her money and fame to do some good, and the ridicule was not warranted just because she is considered to be a sex object. She is still a person with brains.

Apparently she had been in contact with Ivanka who referred her to Jared Kushner, and from there it went to Trump Sr.

If it is indeed a good idea? Perhaps as Mactoria says, Johnson was worse fhan publicized. To me a life sentence with no chance of parole should be reserved for murder, but selling drugs often does equate to murder.



The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
mactoria
Posted: Monday, June 4, 2018 11:43:35 PM
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Ashwin may be right, Kardashian's meeting with Trump may have been only on behalf of Alice Johnson (I don't we know from the media reports who focused on the celebrity of Kardashian) instead of a discussion of others in her position. As Hope points out, Kardashian pushing a request directly with a prez isn't new (celebrity-president lobbying goes back to at least JFK if not further or all the way back). Even if Kardashian only pushed Alice Johnson's behalf, if Johnson was indeed a victim of bad sentencing and Trump acts, that's at least one person who gets a second chance. But the fact that Kardashian did this rather publicly has rekindled the wider issue of the wrongness of our mandatory sentencing/long sentencing system after it died out when Obama's term ended. We can hope it will put some pressure on Trump and Sessions to not make things worse (which Sessions has been doing by ordering US Attorneys to prioritize prosecuting drug crimes fully and freely regardless of how small or what type of drug is involved, and to ask for maximum sentences for all convictions regardless of circumstances).

Tme's point about precedent if Trump responds to Kardashian's request to pardon Alice Johnson only: it won't set a precedent, as the precedent has already been set a long time ago. Every president has done it to some extent (one that sticks out in my memory is Carter's clemency grant to Patty Hearst after lobbying by the Hearst family/corporation). The big problem in Trump's pardoning is that there's no process in ANY of it so far. Whereas modern presidents have used a meticulous DOJ and White House Counsel review process for 99% of those they pardon or grant clemency (the presidents in my lifetime have all made one or a few more personalized pardons/clemencies that went outside the formal review process based on either personal lobbying or to make a policy point), Trump so far has ignored any formalized DOJ/Counsel review and recommendation process. While most presidents pardon or grant clemency to mostly non-famous people, Trump's actions have been on well-known people (eg Arpaio, Jack Johnson, Scooter Libby, etc). If Trump doesn't start using a legitimate DOJ review process for clemency/pardons, that will be a very bad precedent.
Squawk Box
Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2018 4:38:42 PM

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Angel She captivates me, I think that she is cute, and I could probably sit and listen to her, yammer on about anything.Angel
Hope123
Posted: Friday, June 8, 2018 12:23:11 AM

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Squawk Box wrote:
Angel She captivates me, I think that she is cute, and I could probably sit and listen to her, yammer on about anything.Angel


Looks as if Trump agrees with you. Johnson's sentence was commuted. There are another 110 people in the same boat. I guess they all need Kim to plead their cases to keep consistency.



The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
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