The Free Dictionary  
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Could anyone please help me see that what the problem of my writing is? Options
Tingting
Posted: Monday, August 22, 2011 1:52:13 AM

Rank: Member

Joined: 4/17/2011
Posts: 15
Points: 45
Location: China
Hello everyone! I think perhaps my thinking style is different from native speakers, so my GRE score about writing is poor. I don't know why. Here is an issue written by me and could you help me figure out it? Thank you in advance.

TOPIC: ISSUE136 - "The absence of choice is a circumstance that is very, very rare."
WORDS: 383 TIME: 00:45:00
I agree with the speaker in the broad assertion that the circumstance of scarcity of choice is rare. But at the same time, the speaker ignored the limitations of human and the confinement of the environment, which diminish the justification of the statement to some extent.
Firstly, as the optimistic claimed, life is full of possibilities and the future lies in your hand. In other word, it means that every road leads to Roman if you can seize the opportunity .Actually, it is an opinion which is believed by all the great heroes and leaders in the world. If not, they would not have fought against the unfairness and created a new world.
Secondly, it seems that somebody who claimed having no choice but to commit a crime or drink alcohol so forth is just trying to shirk the accountabilities for his or her behavior. In fact, most of the circumstances that somebody asserts as the predicaments are generally not the cases. In stead, it reflects a kind of fear and trepidation. Since he cannot handle it well ,he pulls the responsibility to the environment.
Thirdly, while admitting that choice is often accessible, we should also notice the limitation of human's nature and ability and the confinement of the environment. In Hardy's work Tess of the d'Urbevilles, he tried to persuade the reader that one cannot get rid of the net knitted by the Almighty. Although it is some kind of fatalism which is criticized by the scholars,it is reasonable to some degree. In the fiction,Tess's personality of being tractable and susceptible accounted for a large part to her tragedy.
Furthermore,the speaker also ignore the context of this statement.I have to admit that in modern times,people are more free to do their own choice .But in the past when monarchy is the most popular form of human society,the common people didn't get so much choice as we do.Once the monarch sentenced somebody to death,no matter reasonable or unreasonable,he had no chioce but to die.
In conclusion,the speaker is on the correct side in a large degree,except for leaving out the circumstances of the time of human nature.After all,each human who is willing to live actively and happily would like to believe in this statement.But while we accept it and do things under this belief ,we should also be aware of our own limitations and try not to get to the extreme.


Allow my soul settle in your garden,
though my body is banished.
thar
Posted: Monday, August 22, 2011 2:47:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 4,266
Points: 12,766
Location: iceland
OK, I don't know what the GRE wants so I can only say what strikes me about the writing.

there is good language here, and a variety of constructions, but there are mistakes and problems that jump out.

1) this has lots of complicated words and phrases but less substance, it does not put its ideas across well. It needs to set out its ideas, put examples that support those points, and reach a conclusion. It is not clear what is arguing there is choice, and what isn't. It has the words of an introduction and conclusion, but not the ideas clearly expressed. I know it is an English test, but it must be English used to make a point.
eg the limitations of humans - what limitations? their character, their fates, their intelligence?
The environment - in what way - the circumstances of their life, what happens around them?

2) there are idioms here misused (not surprisingly, as they are hard to get right) but it does show that you are using language beyond what you are comfortable with, and shows up as mistakes
eg all roads lead to Rome
and so forth
in other words

3) do not use contractions in an essay - didn't is for informal language - it shows you do not understand the tone needed.

4) basics - proof reading -
there is an incorrect verb agreement ( the speaker also ignore) and punctuation with no spaces after commas and full stop
(I assume this is pasted and that is an original mistake)

Sorry if this is harsh, but you did ask. I know 45 minutes is not much, but proofreading is vital, and I am sure a couple of the mistakes could have been picked up with (yet) another check.

The main problem to me is that the expression of clear logical ideas is sacrificed for vocabulary. I know you do not want it to be too simplistic, and maybe the markers appreciate the language, but to me it comes across as too complicated and not showing your confident use of language, that you clearly do have, to communicate your ideas.

I know this is a very tough review, ( and from someone with no experience in this field) but you did ask! Other may completely disagree with my points!



intelfam
Posted: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:38:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2010
Posts: 1,197
Points: 3,275
Location: United Kingdom

thar seems to have said it all. I wonder if Romany will see this, as she has some experience of the interface of english and the chinese languages?

I am always grateful for thar and Romany on this forum and learn a lot from both of you. Thank you!

I have to admit that I often find non-european speakers of english seem to sacrifice content for form and style, using quite flowery language which would be put more simply by a native. Maybe it's feature of the way the language is taught? I wait for insight!


"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
thar
Posted: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:57:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 4,266
Points: 12,766
Location: iceland
Well, given Romany's recent scathing posting on Chinese English teaching, I am impressed by this writing, but certainly, Romany is the expert here! There is a window, between being too simplistic and not showing what you need to show, and being too complicated and obscuring the meaning, which I guess is just acheived by a lot of practice and exposure to appropriate writing. Keep at it!

and appreciation appreciated, intelfam 8~) If ever my chinese gets beyond hello, I will be the most humble learner ever!!
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:16:47 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 2,444
Points: 7,186
Location: China
Intel and Thar -

Yes, I did see this, but felt that Thar had got it covered. Without taking on board the entire piece and re-constructing it line by line there was nothing I could add.

Intel:- educated Chinese is a very 'flowery' language. The structure of Chinese seems rather basic/easy to beginner learners as, instead of changing the form of a sentence to indicate present continuous or past perfect etc. one simply uses the same structure but adds a word at the end to indicate tense. Being able to make ones needs/wants understood in a basic and limited version of the language is not where the difficulty arises.

It's all the circumlocations, nuanced phrases, conventions, acceptable and unacceptable ways to broach, discuss or end a topic (not to mention the continual use of rather florid adjectives!) that is difficult. This is the basic language knowledge Chinese bring to learning English.

My biggest struggle with many students is to teach them how to be direct in their communication. The second, and intertwined struggle, comes with trying to inculcate the idea of economy of words and plain speaking.

It usually takes a long time, the constant provision of alternatives, and a lot of reading to get students to accept this: its basically a wholley different approach to language for the majority of students.

PS - I didn't mean to be 'scathing', and I hope no Chinese browsers of this forum will have thought so.(!!)Certainly all the students I've ever had are fully aware of the shortcomings of such a system. I was merely explaining the reality of the current situation, which arose because of the dearth of teachers after the Cultural Revolution.

It's an inevitability in a country which has only recently introduced universal literacy and which has the highest numbers of school-going students in the world. It's also caused because of China's historical isolation from the world of English speakers; the fact that, unlike all the Indo-Germanic languages which have common ancestors, Chinese is a wildly different form of communication; Opening and Expansion only took place 30 years ago and vast rural communities throughout the wide land remain virtually untouched by contact with the West and, ergo, Western language.

So - not being judgemental. Merely prosaic.
intelfam
Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 6:17:16 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2010
Posts: 1,197
Points: 3,275
Location: United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
I

Intel:- educated Chinese is a very 'flowery' language.
It's all the circumlocations, nuanced phrases, conventions, acceptable and unacceptable ways to broach, discuss or end a topic (not to mention the continual use of rather florid adjectives!) that is difficult. This is the basic language knowledge Chinese bring to learning English.


Than you Romany. I have a copy of the "Book of Changes" (translated into english) as I was interested in Daoism. The "cloaked" meanings and the roundabout language is, for me, the attraction of the book as a piece of literature. I guess that, like other countries, the literature of a society often reflects the philosophical/religious background - and so the way education is structured.



"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
Romany
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 1:24:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 2,444
Points: 7,186
Location: China
Intel - yes, I think this is why Chinese readers of English novels are all familiar with the 19th century writers: that rather florid style, the enormously long sentences,the circumlocation and the way language is used is very familiar to them. Unfortunately, none are familiar with contemporary English writing so they continue (as we once discussed before) to use the Brontes, Dickens, Austen, Conan Dyle as their models when writing.
intelfam
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 8:01:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2010
Posts: 1,197
Points: 3,275
Location: United Kingdom
Romany wrote:
Intel - yes, I think this is why Chinese readers of English novels are all familiar with the 19th century writers: that rather florid style, the enormously long sentences,the circumlocation and the way language is used is very familiar to them. Unfortunately, none are familiar with contemporary English writing so they continue (as we once discussed before) to use the Brontes, Dickens, Austen, Conan Dyle as their models when writing.


Hmm, maybe you have figured why I like the Book of Changes, Romany. The translation I have is way back and the translator would have studied the english literature you mention. Maybe a 21st century translation would not hold me in the same way?
I have a rather more than sneaking admiration for Dickens' style and from time to time, I read through his works just for the way the language is used. Similarly, I re-read George Eliot.

I sometimes find I wish I had studied literature at school so that I could voice why some authors speak to me in their use of language. Camus for example.





"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
Romany
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:47:33 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 2,444
Points: 7,186
Location: China
Intel:- if you have a copy whose language you like then stick to it! Some of the modern translations are absolutely terrible - some appear simply to have been fed into Google Translate.

And don't get me wrong: I also love to read authors - of whatever era - who have a true facility with language and a mastery over it. (Especially Dickens). But from the point of view of L2 learners at this place and in this time, it's not helping much.

I've probably mentioned the class I had in which we were exploring adjectives to describe "woman"? I was expecting (and got) a fair sprinkling of "hot" and "sexy" - these were 23year olds. But one guy yells out "Chaste!". There was a moment of silence while one half of the class (including me) gaped wordlessly and then almost everyone fell about laughing. It was, even in China, 2009.

When we were talking later he told me he was always coming across this word in English novels and was convinced it was just some feminine attribute. Finally, when I got out of him the titles of these English novels he read, I realised they were from the pen of the (in?)famous Mrs. Radcliffe!

Students (here, at any rate) do so need to be guided in their reading. I can quite see how you may regret subject choices way back when. Still, I'd say that if you're reading books because you like the sound of the language in them, then you've done pretty well all by yourself - Lit. course or no Lit. course!
excaelis
Posted: Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:25:26 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 5,711
Points: 17,072
Location: Canada
[quote=intelfam][quote=Romany]

I sometimes find I wish I had studied literature at school so that I could voice why some authors speak to me in their use of language. Camus for example.



Intel, all the schooling in the world can't explain that. Camus is wonderful because he is so direct. Solzhenitsyn has the same gift. They can both evoke a scene without spending 30 pages ( a la Hugo ) on it.

Sanity is not statistical
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.