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Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 6:39:36 AM

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Hello!

I thought that when preparing a barbecue people roasted the meat. But recently I've lernt the word "to broil". Is this in fact the right word, as opposed to roasting, to describe what people do at a barbecue party?

Many thanks.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 7:18:15 AM
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"Broil" is an American usage that confused me for years - and which I still often mistake for "boil. "

In UK it seems to be "grill" that's used. In Australia it's just "barbeque" and in South Africa it's " braai ".

Guess it depends on where one lives?
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 7:24:29 AM

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Okay, thanks, Romany!

I forgot about "grill"...

So in the UK they grill meat for barbecue.

It remains to see if any of our American friends would care to comment on what Americans say. Perhaps it depends on the region there, too.

The season is just beginning, so I want to learn as much as possible about it.
thar
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 8:27:35 AM

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British speaker here.

You don't roast meat on a barbecue - you only roast it if you

A - have a roasting pit



Or

B - have an open fire and meat suspended over it on a spit.



(A skewer doesn't count!)


(Or you can roast the boring way in an oven. Whistle

But for your standard 'cooking over hot coals' you grill or you barbecue.


To me, 'broil' sounds very odd,too. It sounds like boiling but means grilling!


Grills are cooking equipment! Broilers are chickens! Whistle


This is Middle English.

Quote:
From Middle English broillen, brulen (“to broil, cook”), from Anglo-Norman bruiller, broiller (“to broil, roast”) and Old French brusler, bruller (“to broil, roast, char”), a blend of Old French bruir (“to burn”), of Germanic origin; and Old French usler (“to scorch”), from Latin ustulāre (“to scorch”).



I have no evidence for this, but as in so many cases, I suspect American English kept the old word when they left, while British English abandoned it.


British English now uses the terms grill, which had only just arrived when American English emigrated!
Quote:
1655, from French gril, from Old French greïl, graïl (“gridiron”), from graïlle (“grate, grating”), from Latin crātīcula (“gridiron”), diminutive of crātis (“hurdle, wickerwork”),


And roast

Quote:
From Middle English rosten, a borrowing from Old French rostir (“to roast, to torture with fire”), from Frankish *rōstijan (“to roast, broil”), from Proto-Germanic *raustijaną (“to roast”), from Proto-Indo-European *rews- (“to crackle; roast”). Cognate with Saterland Frisian rosterje (“to roast”), Dutch roosten, roosteren (“to roast”), German rösten (“to roast”).



Or Barbecue which is from native Caribbean via Spanish.


Strangely enough, even though the braai is a word of Dutch origin I can't think of an English cognate. I'm sure there was one in Anglo-Saxon, but it seems to have been completely replaced by the invasion of Norman chefs. Whistle


In Icelandic, which is normally quite a good comparison for Old English, to roast is steikja
and grill is glóðarsteikja - roast in embers. Which survives in English only in the result - steak, not the cooking method. Hmm - but apparently that was introduced, not original Old English. Presumably that w something like the Dutch braden.
Quote:
Steak
From Middle English steike, from Old Norse steik (“roast; meat roasted on a stick”). The verb is either from the noun or from steikja (“to roast”).

towan52
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:25:41 AM

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To confuse the issue, here in the colonies they refer to a barbecue as a "grill" or a "pit" Whistle

"Today I was a hero. I rescued some beer that was trapped in a bottle"
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:40:13 AM

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Here in the Commonwealth :) broil means using direct radiant heat.

But we usually reserve that term for using the top element of an oven to broil a steak.

Although broil could be used for a BBQ as there is direct heat, we usually use the word grill when we get char lines on the meat (or whatever) from the grill or rack of the BBQ.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:28:06 PM

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Romany wrote:
"Broil" is an American usage that confused me for years - and which I still often mistake for "boil. "

In UK it seems to be "grill" that's used. In Australia it's just "barbeque" and in South Africa it's " braai ".

Guess it depends on where one lives?


That's it.

As others have written, "broil" refers to to use of direct radiant heat on the food, whether by flame (typically natural gas) or by thermoelectrical element.

The distinction, at least on the Atlantic coast of USA, is that grilling involves contact with a hot metal grid.

The discussion of what constitutes real BBQ could easily result in a fractious polemic!

Colloquially, anything seeped in a marinade, or subsequently palavered with a sauce typical of a marinade and then grilled, is fair dinkum BBQ.

TIP (remember him?) would assert that No True BBQ™ exists without proper marinade and slow cooking within a closed charcoal-heated BBQ, a thing of almost legendary existence in St Louis MO, Austin TX, or Lynchburg VA.

Whistle



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 25, 2018 1:09:33 AM

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Just to add some more confusion - I'm not a chef, but I know how food was cooked by my mother.

Boiled - covered with water in a pan and heated from below.
Fried - heated from below, in a pan, with some fat (a layer under the food).
Deep fried - covered with melted fat, in a pan, and heated from below.
Roasted - cooked in an oven with added fat. (non-radiant heat. dry hot air)
Baked - cooked in an oven without added fat.
grilled - put on a grill (griddle) and cooked by radiant heat (gas or electrical) from above.
barbequed - put on a grill and cooked over red-hot (burning) coals (usually charcoal). "Grilled" has the heat directly on the food from above, "barbequed" has the heat on the griddle from below, so the metal gets hot.

She never used the word 'broiled' - I would equate it with 'boiled' (mispronounced) or with brulée - charred, burnt.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Friday, May 25, 2018 5:33:03 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Mmm... I was planning to make my lunch light today but not so sure anymore.

Thank you very much, everybody, for the terrific answers! The topic apparently resonated with many.

These days we (in Russia) sometimes make things simpler and cook "barbecue" on a metal grid. This method has been borrowed in the last twenty years or so and has gained popularity for its practicality.
This, I understand from the answers above, would be called "grilling" in both the UK (and Canada) and the US.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

However, the traditional "shashlyk" (the name I believe was borrowed from Turkic languages) is still preferred when people have more time and want to arrange a really long and nice feast. Drool That is meat cut in pieces, on skewers, cooked over hot coal embers, i.e. using radiant heat.

In such a case, I understand, there is difference between UK and US.

In the UK this would be either "grilling" or "barbecueing"... Right? (unfortunately it is rarely a real "spit", so it's not "roasting"... Oh, that would be really nice, but I don't think people do such a great thing often... e.g. a whole lamb roasted? Brick wall wow, I've been missing such a thing so much for my whole life!).

And in the US it would be "broiling", according to leonAzul, at least on the Atlantic coast. Right?

Edited ("barbecueing", not "roasting" in the UK)

Sorry for repeating what was already said above. This is my boring habit of trying to systemize what I've learnt. Just in case I got something wrong, so somebody cares to correct me.

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2018 3:45:54 PM

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British version (according to me)-

This is meat on a grill - the heat is from above, radiant, directly on the food, not reaching the metal grill.



This is meat on a barbeque - the heat is from below, radiant (mainly - the occasional flame). It heats the metal grill as well as the meat.



This is a couple of squirrels toasting marshmallows over a fire.



But this is someone grilling sausages over a fire. d'oh!



For some reason, meat is grilled, but carbohydrates (bread, marshmallows) are toasted.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Eoin Riedy
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2018 5:45:43 PM

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Location: St. Louis, Missouri, United States
Hope123 wrote:
Here in the Commonwealth :) broil means using direct radiant heat.

But we usually reserve that term for using the top element of an oven to broil a steak.


My electric oven has a knob with two settings: Bake, which turns on the bottom heating element, and Broil, which turns on the top heating element.
My previous gas stoves had one heating element and two compartments - the oven, an enclosure above the flame; and a broiler, a drawer with a drip pan directly below and open to the flame.

Lots of foods can be broiled - steak, fish, and garlic toast come to mind.

The key element is that broiled food is placed directly below the open heating source. Broiling is upside-down barbecuing.

leonAzul wrote:

The discussion of what constitutes real BBQ could easily result in a fractious polemic!


So true.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:04:59 AM

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Does this count? Whistle


Quote:

Heat Wave Broils Iceland This Week
Published June 4, 2018

Temperatures are set to climb in Iceland, and stay up there all week long, as the country braces itself for a heat wave.

According to the last data from the Icelandic Met Office, temperatures across Iceland will range from a borderline comfortable 14°C all the way up to a scorching 20°C for most of the country this week.

The sun’s rage is expected to bear down hardest on the Highlands and the northeast, where temperatures will hover at a blistering 18°C to 20°C in the afternoons all this week. The northwest will be shown a modicum of mercy, as temperatures in the Westfjörds are not expected to surpass 10°C there, while the greater Reykjavík area will see temperatures at around 14°C to 16°C.

The one saving grace for Iceland’s capital is that it will be a predominantly cloudy week for us. The northeast will not be so lucky, as they will be cursed with sunny skies well through the weekend.

As such, summer has truly arrived in the country, and Icelanders will be doing their best to try and stay cool under these challenging conditions.




Is this grilling or roasting? Whistle


And, yes, the writer of the article is taking the mick.

Although the forecast seems to hovering about 7 degrees, so maybe not so much broiling as a cool soak.


But, on a side note - you can see why it gets windy here!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 8:52:04 AM

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thar wrote:



Is this grilling or roasting? Whistle


GRILLING, based on the answers given.
It's heat from above.

I understand it would be "roasting" only if combined with a volcano eruption.
RuthP
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 5:02:35 PM

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Romany wrote:
"Broil" is an American usage that confused me for years - and which I still often mistake for "boil. "

In UK it seems to be "grill" that's used. In Australia it's just "barbeque" and in South Africa it's " braai ".

Guess it depends on where one lives?

"Broiling," in the U.S., refers to cooking something, usually briefly, very close to a radiant source of heat. In your oven you likely have what we would call a broiler: a place, often a separate drawer, where you can put a dish or a piece of meat very close to the element (in electric ovens) or flame. Thus, a broiler is often used for searing meat, browning the top of crème brulè, or crisping the top of a casserole.

Barbequing or grilling is done on a grate, over an open flame or charcoal. It is rarely done indoors, unless you have a professional range with professional ventilation. Indoors, the source would need to be gas flame, as charcoal is not safe. Barbequing often implies use of a sauce. Grilling does not, though one may barbeque without sauce or use sauce when grilling, just to be confusing.

People confuse grilling with griddling, which is similar cooking, but done on a flat, solid metal surface. One could griddle in a sauté pan. Most restaurants have a griddle, not a grill. Thus, the very common (in the U.S.) grilled cheese sandwich should rightfully be called a griddled cheese sandwich.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:59:48 AM

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No wonder we each think that the other can't cook right! Whistle

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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