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A Day! Options
ChrisKC
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 1:31:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 274
Neurons: 128,536
Location: Chiang Mai, Chiang Mai, Thailand
How many hours in a day?

24

How many hours in a night, then?

A day is 24 hours and includes a night. But a night doesn't include a day

Doesn't this mean, that when talking about a day, as distinct from a night, that we should always use daylight or daytime?

I have been working all day but that doesn't include the night(time). If we are to take "working all day" literally, how many hours is that?

thar
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 2:27:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,856
Neurons: 72,412
There used to be 12 hours in a day, and 12 hours in the night - because hours only mattered when it came to prayer times in monasteries - 8 times during the day and once at night. It made for ingenious clocks where you changed the speed depending on the season and day/night.

People worked all day. When it got dark, you couldn't work any more.


This whole modern construct of regular-sized hours is what messes everything up. Whistle

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 2:40:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,140
Neurons: 176,780
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Several years ago, I read a great description of the difference between 'natural language' and 'artificial language' (machine language).

It was quite long, but the main point was that natural speech very much relies on 'background knowledge' which is never stated but is understood by both people.

"I'm going now. 'Bye!" in 'machine language' simply means "I'm going now" - in a second the person will not be here.

In 'natural language', it can mean "It's after midnight and I probably should be going home to bed, but I hope you're going to offer me another drink before I go, and I can stay for another hour . . ."
or
"It's six-thirty and I have to go to work. Maybe you could offer to drive me there?"
or . . .

"A day" means whatever it means to the two people in the conversation, I suppose.

To me "I've been working all day" means twelve hours. I work 7am to 7pm (or 7pm to 7am).
Here, in the summer (this year), daylight is 03:23 to 23:05 (even longer in the highlands).
For thar and Jyrkkä Jätkä it's even longer.

As I said in another thread yesterday, I could have a "night out" and arrive home just after sunset!


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
ChrisKC
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 5:53:12 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 274
Neurons: 128,536
Location: Chiang Mai, Chiang Mai, Thailand
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Several years ago, I read a great description of the difference between 'natural language' and 'artificial language' (machine language).

It was quite long, but the main point was that natural speech very much relies on 'background knowledge' which is never stated but is understood by both people.

"I'm going now. 'Bye!" in 'machine language' simply means "I'm going now" - in a second the person will not be here.

In 'natural language', it can mean "It's after midnight and I probably should be going home to bed, but I hope you're going to offer me another drink before I go, and I can stay for another hour . . ."
or
"It's six-thirty and I have to go to work. Maybe you could offer to drive me there?"
or . . .

"A day" means whatever it means to the two people in the conversation, I suppose.

To me "I've been working all day" means twelve hours. I work 7am to 7pm (or 7pm to 7am).
Here, in the summer (this year), daylight is 03:23 to 23:05 (even longer in the highlands).
For thar and Jyrkkä Jätkä it's even longer.

As I said in another thread yesterday, I could have a "night out" and arrive home just after sunset!


A very interesting response. Most of what we do on this forum to help our students, often without context and/or relevant "background knowledge" but with background and personal experiential knowledge of our own, means variation from Respondents providing greater depth of understanding, insight, as well as technical help.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 7:14:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 30,140
Neurons: 176,780
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
This is one of the things I like about this forum - it is not like a text book "the correct usage is _____".
Learners (including old learners like me) can learn several ways of saying something - different ideas about what a phrase means. And if you don't get the first explanation properly, someone else will 'have a go'.

I even learn from some of the American members. Shhh Shhh Don't tell them.

It is quite something to look at an idea which has been there since I was 'x months' old - "everybody knows", "it's always that way" - and learn that other people don't see it that way at all.
As you say, personal experiential knowledge - but also cultural experiential knowledge. Even stupid things like "How can you eat a subway? It doesn't make sense!"

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Romany
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 9:06:41 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 14,388
Neurons: 44,818
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Agree with you both. I couldn't begin to count the number of times (as in this thread) I've been forced to actually THINK about phrases we accept and use. Or that I've thought, initially "Wotha?" and then after a second reading "OMG, why didn't I ever think of that?"

Nor, unfortunately, the number of times I've discovered that the way I've always thought about a phrase/word is completely wrong! Keeps one 'umble!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:57:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 41,765
Neurons: 409,775
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
In Finnish päivä (day) is somewhat 12 hours, (night) is shorter, about eight hours. There's ilta (evening) and aamu (morning) in between.
That 24 hours period is called vuorokausi.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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