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Russia’s missile strikes Florida Options
Helenej
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 2:45:18 AM

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In his yesterday’s annual address to Russia’s parliament aired live throughout the country, Putin showed a video where a Russia’s newest missile strikes Florida. I wonder how loud would Moscow scream and shout if Donald Trump showed the Congress a video of an American missile attacking, say, Russia’s Kamchatka peninsula?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unWY-RgXDmM
taurine
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 4:04:45 AM

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Perhaps he wouldn't care at all. No more than 300,000 people live there. Remote territory which remained not so long until recently a military area.

J'ai perdu mes amis en Afrique durant la dernière semaine de 2017
troy3000
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 4:25:27 AM

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Scary stuff... no matter what

You deserve to have a good time after a hard day's work.
Y111
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 9:46:08 AM
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What a relief. For a moment I thought WW3 was starting.

That was probably a message for Donny that when he is playing golf at Mar-a-Lago something may fall on his head, so he'd better behave.
Helenej
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 11:08:54 AM

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Y111 wrote:
That was probably a message for Donny that when he is playing golf at Mar-a-Lago something may fall on his head, so he'd better behave.

Didn’t Trump behave badly when he smashed several hundred Russians in Syria just three weeks ago? Putin had a wonderful chance to teach Trump how to behave. His missile wouldn't go off, would it?
Brave enough to show pictures in front of the parliament and too coward to do something in reality? Probably so, just like he is too coward to even take part in the live presidential debates and brave enough to speak in front of the loyal 450 people that will never ask hard questions, never interrupt and will only applaud.
Y111
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 12:05:04 PM
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Who knows how many Americans had been killed there in similar circumstances?

And nobody will launch a nuclear missile in revenge for several hundred men, especially if he didn't even send them on that mission.

What he has already done in reality is defeat American puppets in Syria and keep Assad president in spite of all the shouting from the West that he must go. Is it cowardice? I wouldn't say so.
Helenej
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2018 2:50:13 PM

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Y111 wrote:
Who knows how many Americans had been killed there in similar circumstances?

Do you really believe that Asad or the Russians wouldn’t have bragged of killing several hundreds of Americans if they had managed to do that?

Y111 wrote:
Nobody will launch a nuclear missile in revenge for several hundred men.

Nobody will revenge in any way. Somebody will first pee his pants and keep silence for a week. Then he will say that there only were five people killed and only god knows who they are.

Y111 wrote:
He didn't even send them on that mission.

Oh no, he didn’t. He had his photos with Wagner’s commander Utkin and Prigozhin, who controls Wagner, taken just accidentally. Also, if mercenaries are illegal in Russia, why isn’t he investigating this case of law abuse?

Y111 wrote:
What he has already done in reality is defeat American puppets in Syria and keep Assad president in spite of all the shouting from the West that he must go. Is it cowardice?

No, both Putin and Assad are very brave. They bravely keep carrying out gas attacks on Syrian people.

Y111
Posted: Saturday, March 3, 2018 2:35:07 AM
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Helenej wrote:
Do you really believe that Asad or the Russians wouldn’t have bragged of killing several hundreds of Americans if they had managed to do that?

Yes, I do. It would have been silly. There is no direct warfare between Russia, Syria and the US, and it's not in Putin's or Assad's interests to provoke it.

Helenej wrote:
Oh no, he didn’t. He had his photos with Wagner’s commander Utkin and Prigozhin, who controls Wagner, taken just accidentally.

How is that relevant? Either he sent them on the mission where they were killed or he didn't, regardless of the photos, and if he didn't, it was their own fault.

Helenej wrote:
Also, if mercenaries are illegal in Russia, why isn’t he investigating this case of law abuse?

Let me guess... Because he is a coward?

Helenej wrote:
No, both Putin and Assad are very brave. They bravely keep carrying out gas attacks on Syrian people.

You are entitled to your opinion, but since I see absolutely no point for them to do that, I don't believe these allegations. But their losing opponents are clearly interested in doing it and then blaming them.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, March 3, 2018 1:12:12 PM

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Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
Do you really believe that Asad or the Russians wouldn’t have bragged of killing several hundreds of Americans if they had managed to do that?

Yes, I do. It would have been silly. There is no direct warfare between Russia, Syria and the US, and it's not in Putin's or Assad's interests to provoke it.

You contradict yourself. According to you, Russians are not afraid to provoke a war against America by killing Americans but they are afraid to provoke a war by saying how many Americans they have killed. Lol.

Yet I think they haven’t killed any significant number of Americans. It is Russian widows crying on TV and demanding revenge while no one heard of American widows doing that.


The Wagner soldier's widow asks Putin to revenge her husband's death
Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
Oh no, he didn’t. He had his photos with Wagner’s commander Utkin and Prigozhin, who controls Wagner, taken just accidentally.

How is that relevant? Either he sent them on the mission where they were killed or he didn't, regardless of the photos, and if he didn't, it was their own fault.

How? - In a very direct way. Putin has a great influence on those men. If he had said a word, no Wagner soldier would have headed to Syria.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
Also, if mercenaries are illegal in Russia, why isn’t he investigating this case of law abuse?

Let me guess... Because he is a coward?

You got it right. Because investigating the law abuse by Wagner soldiers would mean investigating the law abuse by Putin himself.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
No, both Putin and Assad are very brave. They bravely keep carrying out gas attacks on Syrian people.

I see absolutely no point for them to do that.

It’s quite easy to see it. The Syrian regime punishes population that are supportive of the opposition.

Y111
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 12:53:42 AM
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Helenej wrote:
You contradict yourself. According to you, Russians are not afraid to provoke a war against America by killing Americans but they are afraid to provoke a war by saying how many Americans they have killed. Lol.

No contradiction. I didn't mean deliberate, overt killing. If some Americans were somewhere unofficially/secretly and were killed by an air strike, for example. Or in some other similar circumstances. Such things happen. And when they happen, it would be silly to brag about them, unless you wanted to start a war. Russia doesn't want a war with America, and not because Putin is a coward. America is much stronger. And yet he dares to play against it, to stand his ground. That is definitely not what I'd call cowardice. He is brave. But he has to be clever and careful in his actions.

Helenej wrote:
It is Russian widows crying on TV and demanding revenge while no one heard of American widows doing that.

They must be used to it. America is always fighting somewhere abroad. It's normal.

Helenej wrote:
How? - In a very direct way. Putin has a great influence on those men. If he had said a word, no Wagner soldier would have headed to Syria.

I didn't mean going to Syria. On the mission/operation where they were killed. It seems our official military there didn't know they were taking part in it and therefore the Americans didn't know either (or had an excuse for pretending they didn't).

Helenej wrote:
You got it right. Because investigating the law abuse by Wagner soldiers would mean investigating the law abuse by Putin himself.

Then it would be plain stupid. Just because you don't shoot yourself in the foot doesn't mean you are a coward.

Helenej wrote:
It’s quite easy to see it. The Syrian regime punishes population that are supportive of the opposition.

It had plenty of conventional weapons to punish them. It was also winning the war, and after the victory it would have them all in its hands to punish those who had supported the rebels. The use of gas attracts too much attention, it's unnecessary risk.
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 4:18:30 AM

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Y111 wrote:
I didn't mean deliberate killing.

Then you compare incomparable things. Wagner mercenaries were smashed deliberately. Americans knew that they were Russians in spite of the fact that the Russian commander had denied that.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
It is Russian widows crying on TV and demanding revenge while no one heard of American widows doing that.

They must be used to it. America is always fighting somewhere abroad. It's normal.

How can a woman be used to her husband’s death?
And what about journalists around the world? Are they all so much used to American soldiers’ deaths that they don’t even want to make a piece of news of that?


Y111 wrote:
It seems our official military there didn't know they were taking part in it.

Ahaha. He could have called Wagner’s commander and find that out before denying the presence of Russians there.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
Investigating the law abuse by Wagner soldiers would mean investigating the law abuse by Putin himself.

Then it would be plain stupid.

Yes, it would be stupid of Putin to start investigation and end up finding himself the main abuser.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
The Syrian regime punishes population that are supportive of the opposition.

It had plenty of conventional weapons to punish them.

There is always evidence after using conventional weapons. You will always know where the shells have come from. Sarin just evaporates.

Y111 wrote:
It was also winning the war, and after the victory it would have them all in its hands to punish those who had supported the rebels.

Assad is like Hitler. Did the latter wait till the end of the war to punish civilians who supported the Soviet partisans?

Y111
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 5:42:42 AM
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Hundreds of Russian soldiers are alleged to have died in U.S. airstrikes at the beginning of February. Reporting by DER SPIEGEL shows that events were likely very different.

Among those stationed in Tabiya was a small contingent of Russian mercenaries. But the two militia sources said they did not participate in the fighting. Still, they said, 10 to 20 of them did in fact lose their lives. They said a total of more than 200 of the attackers died, including around 80 Syrian soldiers with the 4th Division, around 100 Iraqis and Afghans and around 70 tribal fighters, mostly with the al-Baqir militia.

It all happened at night, and the situation became extremely complicated when the fighters from Tabiya entered the fray. A staffer at the only major hospital in Deir ez-Zor would later say that around a dozen Russian bodies were delivered. An employee at the airport, meanwhile, later witnessed the delivery of the bodies in two Toyota pickup trucks to a waiting Russian transport aircraft that then flew to Qamishli, an airport near the Syrian border in the north.


So the news about several hundred Russians killed there is apparently false.

Helenej wrote:
How can a woman be used to her husband’s death?

She must be somewhat prepared, bearing in mind that America is always fighting somewhere abroad.

Helenej wrote:
And what about journalists around the world? Are they all so much used to American soldiers’ deaths that they don’t even want to make a piece of news of that?

Why not? What is so new about a few American soldiers killed somewhere? Who would be surprised?

Helenej wrote:
There is always evidence after using conventional weapons. You will always know where the shells have come from. Sarin just evaporates.

If there is no evidence, because it evaporated, how do you know it was Assad? Extrasensory perception? Also, if you punish someone, you want them to know it was you. Punishment is supposed to change their behavior.
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 6:43:05 AM

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Y111 wrote:
So the news about several hundred Russians killed there is apparently false.

Then you might want to listen to what the Wagner contractors say themselves. I wish the subtitles didn’t leave out the tons of that natural foul language the men use. Watch at 9:54.
Smashing Wagner mercs

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
How can a woman be used to her husband’s death?

She must be somewhat prepared, bearing in mind that America is always fighting somewhere abroad.

Hadn't that Russian woman in the video been prepared? Her husband had fought in Ukraine, now he was fighting in Syria. She had had enough time to get prepared. However, she cries.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
And what about journalists around the world? Are they all so much used to American soldiers’ deaths that they don’t even want to make a piece of news of that?

Why not? What is so new about a few American soldiers killed somewhere? Who would be surprised?

American soldiers are killed in the hottest point in the world. I think that would attract attention as the whole world is following the conflict.

Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
There is always evidence after using conventional weapons. You will always know where the shells have come from. Sarin just evaporates.

If you punish someone, you want them to know it was you. Punishment is supposed to change their behavior.

People supporting the rebels know very well who kills them.

Y111
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 9:05:01 AM
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Helenej wrote:
Then you might want to listen to what the Wagner contractors say themselves.

What proves they are Wagner contractors? Radio communications with such excellent quality as if recorded in a studio? A couple of actors could have made them, I guess.

Helenej wrote:
American soldiers are killed in the hottest point in the world. I think that would attract attention as the whole world is following the conflict.

Okay, if you insist that no Americans have been killed in Syria by Russians, that means our military work very accurately there. They always know where there are Americans and where there are not. So they wouldn't have sent anyone to attack a plant occupied by American troops.

Helenej wrote:
People supporting the rebels know very well who kills them.

I still don't understand. It may be very natural for them to think so, but how do they know? There is no evidence because it evaporated. You yourself said that was the reason for Assad to use gas and not conventional weapons. How do they and you know it was him?
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 2:30:01 PM

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Y111 wrote:
What proves they are Wagner contractors? Radio communications with such excellent quality as if recorded in a studio? A couple of actors could have made them, I guess.

Okay, if you insist that no Americans have been killed in Syria by Russians, that means our military work very accurately there. They always know where there are Americans and where there are not. So they wouldn't have sent anyone to attack a plant occupied by American troops.

I still don't understand. It may be very natural for them to think so, but how do they know? There is no evidence because it evaporated. You yourself said that was the reason for Assad to use gas and not conventional weapons. How do they and you know it was him?

What you say all the way reminds me a small kid, who has broken a cup, put the pieces in the garbage bin and now denies breaking it saying it was the cat. He doesn’t understand that everything is clear to his seniors who can see him through. Even if his parents say that cats have no hands to pick up pieces of a cup, the child will keep denying.

Russians shamelessly deny any evidence of the wars they start, cyberattacks, interference in other countries’ election, the massive state-run doping operation, state-run drug trafficking. Even if eleven Russian soldiers get caught in another country, Russia says that they just got lost. Your president denied Russia’s troops invasion in the Crimea for a year! If 200 of Russian soldiers get killed in another country, your president and government keep silence for a week trying to make up a suitable version. Russia is hated throughout the world for what it does and is disdained for how it lies after that denying obvious facts.

jacobusmaximus
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 4:12:11 PM

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Why is Vlad using a baby's coffin for a lectern?

I remember, therefore I am.
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 5:05:23 PM

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jacobusmaximus wrote:
Why is Vlad using a baby's coffin for a lectern?

Maybe because he loves kids.
Putin loves kids

Y111
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 1:42:59 AM
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Helenej wrote:

What you say all the way reminds me a small kid, who has broken a cup, put the pieces in the garbage bin and now denies breaking it saying it was the cat.

That's an interesting story but it's no substitute for a valid argument. You failed to prove your point that Putin is a coward. It's easy to understand why he denies this and pretends that if you take into account that he is playing against a much stronger power. Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians and at the same time it keeps trading with it. Ukrainians keep coming to Russia in big numbers to work for Russians. After your "revolution of dignity", is this what you call dignity? Isn't it rather a shameless and cowardly behavior?

In the case of your country it's actually harder to explain since it's been often claimed that the whole world is with you and Russia is isolated. According to Obama, its economy was already in tatters in the beginning of 2015. But then, why do you still need Russia, having the whole world on your side? Something must be wrong in your picture of reality.
Helenej
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 2:41:31 AM

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Y111 wrote:
You failed to prove your point that Putin is a coward.

He is a coward. After commiting ANY crime (starting wars, cyberattacks, interference in other countries’ election, the massive state-run doping operation, state-run drug trafficking), he denies it whatever the evidence is.

Y111 wrote:
Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians.

Yes, we keep crying. And we keep weeping. For four years, we keep weeping while meeting each coffin that arrives at the home village of our soldiers that you kill on our own land.
Returning to the home village in coffin


Y111 wrote:
Ukrainians keep coming to Russia in big numbers to work for Russians. After your "revolution of dignity", is this what you call dignity? Isn't it rather a shameless and cowardly behavior?

You started a war in our country and have been waging it for four years and you dare to reproach us for people’s attempts to survive? What a jesuitism!

Y111
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 6:57:55 AM
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Helenej wrote:
Yes, we keep crying.

Your post can serve as a good example of how a propagandist works. You totally ignored my point and commented on some parts torn out of the context. Tell me about Russian propaganda after that.
Helenej
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 3:31:29 PM

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Y111 wrote:
Your post can serve as a good example of how a propagandist works. You totally ignored my point and commented on some parts torn out of the context.

It is you who totally ignored my point and are a propagandist for your lying regime. I proved that Putin is a coward and a liar. Each time he committed a crime, he cowardly lied, trying to avoid punishment and international reprimand.
He cowardly lied when he:

1. Deployed his troops in Crimea.
2. Started a war in Ukraine using the Russian army.
3. Denied the presence of Russian soldiers in Syria on February, 7.
4. Ordered the Russian athletes to use doping and substitute their urine probes.
5. Trafficked cocaine from Argentina.
6. Interfered in the US election.

You ignored most of the items on the list. You only said that Putin didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria – ahaha.

Y111
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 3:30:30 AM
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Helenej wrote:
It is you who totally ignored my point

Not at all. Your point was that Putin is a coward because he denies and pretends. I have answered this twice, explaining why in my opinion he does so. Answering twice is not ignoring, not in this universe. If my explanation didn't satisfy you, that's another matter.

Helenej wrote:
You ignored most of the items on the list.

Discussing your lists is of little interest to me at the moment because it seems that you will believe any accusation against Putin and Russia and will only consider evidence that supports it. Just as you accused me of ignoring your point (even totally) despite the evidence to the contrary that was right before your eyes.
Helenej
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:05:48 AM

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Y111 wrote:
You accused me of ignoring your point (even totally) despite the evidence to the contrary that was right before your eyes.

You should have read my post to the end. I said “you totally ignored my point”, but I added “You ignored most of the items on the list. You only said that Putin didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria”.

Y111 wrote:
Your point was that Putin is a coward because he denies and pretends. I have answered this twice, explaining why in my opinion he does so. Answering twice is not ignoring, not in this universe. If my explanation didn't satisfy you, that's another matter.

My point was that Putin is a coward and liar and I supported it with six of his crimes, when he committed them and then cowardly lied. You only tried to explain one of them, about Syria. Your explanation was just a repetition of the Russia’s propaganda and yes, it doesn’t satisfy me because it is ridiculous. The world is not satisfied with it either, as well as with Putin’s explanations of the other crimes. That’s why Putin is hated and disdained throughout the world and is laughed at.

Y111 wrote:
Discussing your lists is of little interest to me at the moment because it seems that you will believe any accusation against Putin and Russia and will only consider evidence that supports it.

To this, I can only repeat myself. Not only me, but the whole world laughs at Russia’s (read ‘yours’) evidence to the contrary and finds it ridiculous. Can the whole world be wrong and only Putin right?

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 7:27:10 AM

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May I interrupt to say this . . .

I have read most of what you both say.

Neither of you presents any evidence.
One presents ideas and opinions from pro-Putin sources.
The other presents ideas and opinions from anti-Putin sources.

You both present your opinions as facts.

What Helene says does not PROVE that Putin is criminal - it accuses him.
What Y111 says does not in any way PROVE that Putin is innocent (or even 'not very criminal') - it simply asserts that he is.

News-bulletins, blogs and biased videos - on either side - are not evidence.
They will always be open to the accusation of being biased, opinionated and 'false news'.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Y111
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 8:40:57 AM
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

You both present your opinions as facts.

Where have I done so? The only facts that I have posted in this thread were not mine but from a German journalist. I gave a link to his article at Der Spiegel online. Is it a pro-Putin source?

I presented my explanation of why Putin behaves as he does as my opinion, not fact. So, please, explain what exactly you mean.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 10:48:46 AM

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- "What he has already done in reality is defeat American puppets in Syria and keep Assad president in spite of all the shouting from the West that he must go."
- "Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians and at the same time it keeps trading with it. Ukrainians keep coming to Russia in big numbers to work for Russians."
- "Something must be wrong in your picture of reality."
- "There is no direct warfare between Russia, Syria and the US, and it's not in Putin's or Assad's interests to provoke it."
- " Russia doesn't want a war with America, and not because Putin is a coward. America is much stronger. And yet he dares to play against it, to stand his ground. That is definitely not what I'd call cowardice. He is brave. But he has to be clever and careful in his actions."
- "They must be used to it. America is always fighting somewhere abroad. It's normal."


These are all presented as facts, but are not objective evidence.

I'm sure some of it is true - I could spend some time and find the evidence that the USA has been at war with someone virtually since it was formed two hundred years ago. However stating "America is always fighting someone abroad" does not prove anything, it is opinion without evidence. When I say it here, it is my opinion until I give the evidence that it is true.

This is all I am saying - not that you are wrong, simply that you present no evidence of facts. What you have stated is your opinion of what you feel the facts are. Der Spiegel may or may not be pro-Putin or anti-Putin. However, it is a media outlet, it rarely gives objective facts. In this case, it is quoting "two militia sources" - people who are giving one side of the story - the other side of the story from the other reporters who say hundreds were killed.
Neither side has proven facts - both sides are opinion.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Helenej
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 12:36:53 PM

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Are eleven Russian armed soldiers caught on our territory plus two more caught later not live evidence that Putin is waging a war against Ukraine and cowardly lying that he isn’t?

Are thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in the 2016 US election not evidence that Putin interfered in the election and then cowardly lied that he hadn’t?

Isn’t the denied Olympic doping scandal a proof of the same?

Isn’t the denied 390 kg cocaine shipping from Argentina to Russia on board of a special Russia’s governmental plane a proof to the fact that Putin is a cowardly liar?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 12:58:47 PM

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Helenej wrote:
Are eleven Russian armed soldiers caught on our territory plus two more caught later not live evidence that Putin is waging a war against Ukraine and cowardly lying that he isn’t?

Are thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in the 2016 US election not evidence that Putin interfered in the election and then cowardly lied that he hadn’t?

Isn’t the denied Olympic doping scandal a proof of the same?

Isn’t the denied 390 kg cocaine shipping from Argentina to Russia on board of a special Russia’s governmental plane a proof to the fact that Putin is a cowardly liar?

No, they are proof that eleven Russian soldiers were caught . . . and that thirteen Russians have been charged . . . - if those are true.

Where does the data come from - was it made up by some reporter?
If it is true thirteen Russians have been charged - it does not prove that they actually did anything - they are innocent until proven guilty.
Even if THEY are proven guilty, it is not evidence that Putin interfered - it would only prove that THEY did, nothing to do with him.

You are assuming that because someone said something which backs up your opinion of Putin, it must be true - and if someone says something which disagrees with your opinion, it must be lies.
You are not arguing with evidence - but with unsubstantiated reports and opinions.
Where you DO have facts, you are assuming that they mean more than the actual facts.

If all those things you mention there are proven to be true, they say absolutely nothing about Putin - they simply say that some Russian soldiers, Olympic athletes and members of the government are guilty.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Helenej
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 2:59:36 PM

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Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
While you, Drag0, think that no fact proves anything, the USA, the EU countries, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand and the Olympic Committee think the opposite and have approved sanctions against Russia. Which is right, I wonder, you or they?
Y111
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 1:43:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 276
Neurons: 1,364
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
- "What he has already done in reality is defeat American puppets in Syria and keep Assad president in spite of all the shouting from the West that he must go."
- "Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians and at the same time it keeps trading with it. Ukrainians keep coming to Russia in big numbers to work for Russians."
- "Something must be wrong in your picture of reality."
- "There is no direct warfare between Russia, Syria and the US, and it's not in Putin's or Assad's interests to provoke it."
- " Russia doesn't want a war with America, and not because Putin is a coward. America is much stronger. And yet he dares to play against it, to stand his ground. That is definitely not what I'd call cowardice. He is brave. But he has to be clever and careful in his actions."
- "They must be used to it. America is always fighting somewhere abroad. It's normal."


These are all presented as facts, but are not objective evidence.

—————

Thank you for the clarification, but I still have some questions.

- "Something must be wrong in your picture of reality."

I have always thought that the word "must" expresses an opinion, albeit a confident one. So, as I see it, this is my opinion presented as an opinion. If I wanted to present it as a fact, I would say "Something IS wrong...". Is there no difference between these two versions?

- "They must be used to it. America is always fighting somewhere abroad. It's normal."

To me "someone is always doing something" isn't a factual statement, it's a hyperbole. What it implies is simply somebody does something very/too much/often. So it's again an expression of an opinion. Do you take this expression literally?

- "Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians and at the same time it keeps trading with it. Ukrainians keep coming to Russia in big numbers to work for Russians."

These are facts well known to me and my opponent. Maybe you are unware of them, but I presented them to Helenej, and in that situation they were facts presented as facts.
Y111
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 1:56:34 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 276
Neurons: 1,364
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Helenej wrote:
Y111 wrote:
You accused me of ignoring your point (even totally) despite the evidence to the contrary that was right before your eyes.

You should have read my post to the end. I said “you totally ignored my point”, but I added “You ignored most of the items on the list. You only said that Putin didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria”.

So, "totally" means "most"? In what dictionary? Call my explanation ridiculous after that.

And I haven't said that Putin didn't know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria. Don't put your words in my mouth, please.
Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 2:11:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Y111 wrote:
So, "totally" means "most"?

Well, it was a bit of exaggeration, but I added in the same post “You only said that Putin didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria”. That’s why I recommended you to read my post to the end.

Y111 wrote:
And I haven't said that Putin didn't know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria. Don't put your words in my mouth, please.

When Americans asked Russians if those few hundred soldiers moving towards the oil plant were Russian, Russians answered that there were no their people in the area. Do you insist that Putin knew that those people were Russian?

Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 2:19:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Y111 wrote:
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
"Your own country uses the same tactics. It keeps crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians".

These are facts well known to me and my opponent. Maybe you are unware of them, but I presented them to Helenej, and in that situation they were facts presented as facts.

Drag0 is right here as well. He knows the meanings of English words while you might want to look up the verb ‘cry’, which means ‘shout loudly’. We don’t “keep crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians”. We state or declare that. So what you said about us 'crying' is not a fact. Dancing
Y111
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 4:56:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 276
Neurons: 1,364
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Helenej wrote:
Y111 wrote:
So, "totally" means "most"?

Well, it was a bit of exaggeration, but I added in the same post “You only said that Putin didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria”. That’s why I recommended you to read my post to the end.

I read your whole post, but "totally" and "most" are two different words to me. Your "a bit of exaggeration" is just another attempt to find an excuse for writing a post that condradicts itself.

Helenej wrote:
Y111 wrote:
And I haven't said that Putin didn't know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria. Don't put your words in my mouth, please.

When Americans asked Russians if those few hundred soldiers moving towards the oil plant were Russian, Russians answered that there were no their people in the area. Do you insist that Putin knew that those people were Russian?

I have no idea what Putin knew or didn't know about those people. Please show me where I said that he didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria, or admit that you put your words in my mouth. If it was a mistake, what stops you from admitting it? Cowardice? Eh?

Helenej wrote:
We don’t “keep crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians”. We state or declare that. So what you said about us 'crying' is not a fact.

Helenej wrote:
Yes, we keep crying.

Go figure. Think

Helenej
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 9:29:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/2013
Posts: 2,143
Neurons: 10,538
Location: Kiev, Kyiv City, Ukraine
Y111 wrote:
I read your whole post, but "totally" and "most" are two different words to me. Your "a bit of exaggeration" is just another attempt to find an excuse for writing a post that condradicts itself.

It seems that nitpicking is much more important for you than the discussion itself. I already told you that I did use the word ‘totally’, but I also told you that further in the same post I had corrected myself, saying that out of the six items you only chose to say something about one, ignoring the rest. How about stopping discussing what I’ve already explained and starting commenting on the remaining five items on my list?

Y111 wrote:
Please show me where I said that he didn’t know about several hundred Russian soldiers in Syria, or admit that you put your words in my mouth. If it was a mistake, what stops you from admitting it? Cowardice?

Not at all. Laziness.Angel I didn’t bother rereading what you have written here for five days. Now I see I wasn’t accurate in citing you by memory.

Please, receive my most sincere and humble apology. Pray

Satisfied? Thank God.

Anyway, you said that you didn’t know if Putin (the president!) sent seven hundred Russians in a country that is waging war, but how obvious it is that you feel much more comfortable to think that he didn’t. And you say that even if he didn’t sent them there, it was their fault that the Russian official (read Putin) denied their presence and they were killed. If the Russian official didn't know that they were there, he ought to find out that before denying their presence.


Y111 wrote:
Helenej wrote:
We don’t “keep crying that Russia is killing Ukrainians”. We state or declare that. So what you said about us 'crying' is not a fact.

Helenej wrote:
Yes, we keep crying.

Go figure. Think

It would have been easy if you had given it a tic of thought.

In the former citation, I used ‘cry’ meaning ‘shout loudly’. The words "we state or declare that" make my meaning obvious.

In the latter citation the word 'cry' means ‘to produce tears as the result of a strong emotion, such as unhappiness or pain’. The attached video of delivering the dead soldier's to his hometown explained the meaning.


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