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Fact check of the US State of the Union speech Options
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:12:41 PM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
progpen wrote:
Hope, I confess. I'm one of those identity thieves. When I go abroad, it is so much easier if I am identified as "not from the US".


Well, as I said, if I were American I might consider it too - if I had thought of it. It is just that I never thought the use of my CDN tags would be so diluted.

And I know of course you always act as if you are a polite Canadian too, Proggy. Applause

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:45:05 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Proggy -

There is a new book out that is being discussed at length, and which sets out in detail what you said about the demise of American democracy having been expected to come from inside rather than outside. It shocked me at first, but as I've now listened to quite a few discussions about it, I accept it - and it explains one helluva lot that has puzzled me for years.

As for American abroad identifying as Canadian, this has been going on at least since the turn of this century. Checking into any hostel in any country you'll always find a plethora of "Canadian" youth, but only the odd American. I've been present a couple of times in different countries where American Travellers have been punched simply for admitting they're American - but never once have I even heard of that happening to a Canadian.So the "identity stealing" is a kind of protection.

(ps. I'm talking about Travellers - kids on their Gap Year, people who've just got their Degree, and those who spend their time in different countries living and working in them before moving on to a different place. NOT "tourists".)
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:20:24 AM

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Proggy,

I know you always say money is the problem as to why this attack on democracy is happening to America. The following is only one piece of it but it is significant and Republicans who argue against gun control have their heads in the sand.

I saw an article last October and it reran later with some adjustments. It detailed who exactly it is in the Senate and Congress that take huge amounts from the NRA.

It was appropriately called "Thoughts and Prayers and N.R.A. Funding". And is once again current. Listening "almost puked in her cereal" when I said the last horrific mass shooting was ho hum. Well here we still are again and again.

The US is the only developed nation where these mass shootings are happening, where there should be more healthcare for this FL young man who was known to teachers as a risk, who was known to be a domestic abuser of his girlfriend, and yet had a repeating gun in his possession.

I'm not sure where these figures came from but you can research for accuracy if interested.

In the first 43 days of 2018 America experienced:

18 school shootings
29 mass shootings
1,796 total gun deaths
3,099 total injuries

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html

When a country cares more for its guns than it does for its children, it is in deep doo-doo.

Edit : The link for the more recent article with McCain's name removed because his was campaign contributions is gone but I got the link for the original article on Oct 4, 2017 instead.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
progpen
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:46:30 AM

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Hope. Guns in the US is more of an emotional matter than logical. This is fear driven and backed with millions. The recent revelation that Russia has been funneling money to Republican party via the NRA should have people in the streets, but instead it's been met with more quiet resignation.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:34:37 PM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Proggy, some Americans on Twitter aren't so calm about this morning.

This happens so often that I can't believe I still found myself in tears this morning thinking about those kids who are not even safe in school.

My husband just told me about the teacher who was shot when he unlocked his door to let students in and didn't get it closed fast enough.

The student who was there who told Trump she didn't want his consolations and prayers and called him derogatory names told Trump she wanted gun laws to change.

If they didn't do anything after babies were killed at Sandy Hook, they're not going to do anything now.

The Russians are funnelling money to the Republicans through the NRA! Really? I guess that's as good a way as any if what you want is to kill off Americans.



I will never understand the gun mentality nor the Dreamer mentality in the US, so best for my own peace of mind to just do as you say Americans did with this news - accept with quiet resignation that having my favorite country after Canada being the US was misplaced because of my ignorance of what really goes on. Thank you for helping me to see behind the curtains. (Edited - FounDit has helped with my education there too. Whistle )

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:27:23 PM

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This is the hypocrisy of Trump's reply re mental illness and nothing about guns. He blocked Obama's bill to block mentally ill from getting a gun. This shooter abused his girlfriend so Rubio's statement that changes would not have prevented it are incorrect.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-ended-rule-block-mentally-ill-guns/story?id=53113891&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed

According to estimates from the previous administration, had the Obama-era regulation gone into effect, an estimated 75,000 individuals with mental illnesses would have been added to the database. These individuals would have been notified by the Social Security Administration of their possible restrictions to buy firearms but would have the opportunity go through an appeal process.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Robert Mandava
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 1:32:54 AM

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progpen wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/30/state-of-the-union-fact-check-trumps-address-analyzed
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/30/580378279/trumps-state-of-the-union-address-annotated
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trumps-state-of-the-union-18-wtf-moments-w516105

First and foremost it was an opportunity for the current occupant of the White House to sell 'naming rights' for the State of the Union Speech. On the Monday before the speech, the president's reelection campaign rolled out a gimmick to sell naming rights to the State of the Union. Donors could pay to see their names float luminously over the "Official Donald J. Trump for President livestream" of the State of the Union. The sales pitch read: "This is a movement. It's not about just one of us. It's about ALL of us. Which is why your name deserves to be displayed during Tuesday night's speech" – all for the low, low donation of $35.
https://secure.donaldjtrump.com/sotu-2018

Tonight, I call upon on all of us to set aside our differences, to seek out common ground, and to summon the unity we need to deliver for the people. This is really the key. These are the people we were elected to serve.

Despite the president’s call for unity, he has done little to bring the country or the parties together. The country is as divided as it ever has been in modern times. Polling shows about 40 percent of the country strongly disapproves of the president, and a solid percentage strongly approves of the president. Trump’s approval rating overall is the lowest of any modern president at the same time in their presidency. It is low and yet remarkably stable, because of a hard-core base, described by a rival Republican primary campaign manager at a post-election panel at Harvard as made of “titanium.” And Trump has done little to reach out beyond that base, in policy or rhetoric. In fact, by a 2-to-1 margin (61 to 32 percent), Americans say Trump has divided the country since his election, according to a recent NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

In our drive to make Washington accountable, we have eliminated more regulations in our first year than any administration in history.

It’s true that the Trump administration has steadily tried to roll back regulations, but there is no clear way to measure his success – regulations are made through a messy process of rule-making, budgets, court cases, Congress and enforcers. Past presidents and Congress massively deregulated airliners and trains in the 1970s and 80s, and Ronald Reagan tried to use budgetary measures to neuter regulations without necessarily battling to erase them completely.

According to the Office of Management and Budget, Trump has withdrawn fewer regulations in his first year than Bill Clinton, George W Bush or Obama did during their presidencies. Earlier this month, the White House claimed that the Trump administration “withdrawn or delayed 1,579 planned regulatory actions”; according to the OMB, Clinton withdrew 1,824; Bush 2,632; and Obama 1,814.

Nor does ordering regulations gone actually erase those regulations. There is a complex review process behind regulations to make sure they fit with laws, and Trump’s attempt to repeal environmental rules, for instance, have landed him in court.

The Trump administration has, however, has worked with Congress to use an obscure 1996 law, the Congressional Review Act, to rescind more than a dozen rules enacted late in the Obama administration. The law had only been used once before.


Trump claimed victories in wars nobody knew we'd been fighting.
"We have ENDED the war on American Energy" declared Trump, adding: "We are now very proudly an exporter of energy to the world." Trump failed to note that the four-decade ban on oil exports was lifted by his predecessor, Barack Obama. Elaborating on the alleged armistice, Trump also insisted: "We have ENDED the War on BEAUTIFUL, CLEAN COAL."


Mafirakureva
almo 1
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 7:58:17 PM
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progpen wrote:
Hope, I confess. I'm one of those identity thieves. When I go abroad, it is so much easier if I am identified as "not from the US".







It reminds me of Aesop's Fables.


The Bat and the Weasels

A Bat who fell upon the ground and was caught by a Weasel pleaded to be spared his life. The Weasel refused, saying that he was by nature the enemy of all birds. The Bat assured him that he was not a bird, but a mouse, and thus was set free. Shortly afterwards the Bat again fell to the ground and was caught by another Weasel, whom he likewise entreated not to eat him. The Weasel said that he had a special hostility to mice. The Bat assured him that he was not a mouse, but a bat, and thus a second time escaped.



progpen
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:04:46 PM

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Romany wrote:
Yeah, but Oscar he also says he is a "stable genius" and "knows lots of words" and is "the least racist person you will ever meet" and that Africa is a country and that England has 'no-go' areas. etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is risible: I personally would be hard-pushed to just single out one particular item from amongst all the garbage that comes out of his mouth!


His base calls this "plain talking".

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” — H. L. Mencken

People used to apply this to George W. Bush because they naively thought he was as low as we could go.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:52:03 AM
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Right now the thing that has most "outsiders" (foreigners, people outside the USA) filled with utter contempt and despair is a Republican meme which holds that those brave and traumatised kids who are now speaking up are actually puppets of some uber-Left plot and that it began to work upon them BEFORE this latest horror.

At this point disgust that such drivel could even get air-time has sickened many people as much (or even more!) than the actual shooting. As we are all aware it has done to millions and millions of Americans, who must be feeling helpless despair.
almo 1
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:01:10 AM
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Joined: 10/16/2016
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Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
almo 1 wrote:



The Bat and the Weasels

A Bat who fell upon the ground and was caught by a Weasel pleaded to be spared his life. The Weasel refused, saying that he was by nature the enemy of all birds. The Bat assured him that he was not a bird, but a mouse, and thus was set free. Shortly afterwards the Bat again fell to the ground and was caught by another Weasel, whom he likewise entreated not to eat him. The Weasel said that he had a special hostility to mice. The Bat assured him that he was not a mouse, but a bat, and thus a second time escaped.




progpen
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:09:12 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 1,694
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States
Romany wrote:

Right now the thing that has most "outsiders" (foreigners, people outside the USA) filled with utter contempt and despair is a Republican meme which holds that those brave and traumatised kids who are now speaking up are actually puppets of some uber-Left plot and that it began to work upon them BEFORE this latest horror.

At this point disgust that such drivel could even get air-time has sickened many people as much (or even more!) than the actual shooting. As we are all aware it has done to millions and millions of Americans, who must be feeling helpless despair.


When I mentioned the entrenched base before, this is an example of that. Russia funneling money into the Republican party through the NRA and supplying tens of thousands of killers with automatic weapons to use against Americans is not even a bad thing to them. The entrenched see everyone as the enemy and the more the world opposes them and what they stand for, the more it re-enforces their belief that they are on the right side of their god.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
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