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patty Options
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 6:15:33 AM

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There is the word ‘patty’ in American English which means finely chopped meat, fish, etc. formed into a small round flat shape and fried.
Can you tell me please what word the British use for this dish?
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 6:19:20 AM

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Helenej wrote:
Can you tell me please what word the British use for this dish?

Wikipedia must have been banned in Ukraine. :)


აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 6:27:39 AM

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Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:
Wikipedia must have been banned in Ukraine. :)

What makes you think Wikipedia is banned in Ukraine? The first four buttons on the Russian television?
Those state-controlled channels are apparently very good at brainwashing.

thar
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 6:44:00 AM

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I think I would refer more to the contents than the shaping, and how it is battered or crumbed - but you would shape it into a pattie.

Quote:
A savoury pattie is a battered and deep fried disc of mashed potato, seasoned with sage. It is commonly sold in the British port towns of Hartlepool, Kingston upon Hull, Wirral, [ahem, wiki, The Wirral is not a town] Liverpool and Thurso [Thurso? What the heck is that doing there!Whistle ]
[1] It is a popular item in fish and chip shops, and is consumed either as a snack or as an inexpensive substitute for fish in a fish and chip meal.


There are additional pattie variations such as the meat pattie (corned beef) and the cheese pattie (cheese and onion), although these are not as popular as the savoury version. In certain parts of the North East and Cumbria fish patties are available. These consist of a disc of minced fish sandwiched by two slices of potato (rather than mashed potato as in other patties) and covered in batter. Patties can be of various shapes but are usually round or rectangular. In Hull it may be consumed in a breadcake; this is known as the pattie buttie.





Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 7:08:16 AM

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And what if I don’t batter those before frying? If I just take ground meat with an egg and some chopped onion, shape it into discs, breadcrumb them and then fry in a skillet? Will they be “meat patties”?
thar
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:15:40 AM

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It is not something you do with meat in most British cooking. Think
For fish, it would be a fishcake.

For meat, it would be unusual - just sausage meat in breadcrumbs.

Or meatballs in breadcrumbs,but clearly not flat.



Eg, The Guardian, UK newspaper, cooking article.

Quote:
The secret to both meatballs and fishcakes is, I think, to cook them with grain, in the mix itself (as with the cod cakes’ breadcrumbs or the lamb’s bulgur) or in the pan (the fregola). Either way, it’s the grain that allows the flavour and moisture from the sauce or stock to be fully absorbed. This is what makes meatballs so full of flavour and big on moistness, and also allows them to taste as good – if not better – the next day.



Think
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:44:50 AM

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The closest thing I can think of is a croquette, I have had potato, duck and veal croquettes before now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquette



I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Fyfardens
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:58:16 AM
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The patty itself can also be called a burger, whether or not it is served in a sandwich, especially in the United Kingdom and Ireland, where the term "patty" is rarely used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty

I speak British English (standard southern, slightly dated).
Romany
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:07:06 AM
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Thar - "meatballs"? Rather foreign, what?

What's wrong with the good old rissole, old chap? (Called unanimously "arseholes" by every kid who ever went to boarding school - even the good girls!)
almo 1
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:27:13 AM
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Sarrriesfan wrote:
The closest thing I can think of is a croquette, I have had potato, duck and veal croquettes before now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquette










Korokke!




Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:39:00 AM

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I guess we got patty from the French meat paste pâ·té, such as liver pâ·té which we use for hors d'oeuvres.

We don't deep fry hamburg patties as it says you do rissoles, Romany. Is it still a rissole even before cooking? What do you do with it after cooking - eat as is or make it into a sandwich? I had to look that word up. I can't imagine deep frying beef. You learn something new everyday on the forum.

Here we call it a beef or hamburg patty when formed but a hamburger after the bun and fixings are added and it has been fried or barbecued.

We also used to do potato patties, although not so much any more. The current goodies at a pub are potato perogies.

We do fish patties but if breaded it becomes fish cake.

Do Brits not have the best chocolate bar ever - a peppermint patty? Wish I could post a photo.

Edited - those look tasty, Almo.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:41:01 AM

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almo 1 wrote:
[quote=Sarrriesfan]The closest thing I can think of is a croquette, I have had potato, duck and veal croquettes before now.

Croquettes are really very close though they usually look like rolls, not flat.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:44:39 AM

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Romany wrote:
What's wrong with the good old rissole?

Exactly, rissole! “A small flat mass or ball of chopped meat that is fried. It is sometimes covered with breadcrumbs.” Yes! They are made of meat, they are often flat, they are breadcrumbed, they are fried, they are not sandwiched and are probably eaten with a sidedish.

Thank you, everyone! Thank you, Romany!
Do you patties look like these, Hope123?
rissole
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:46:38 AM

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But what about “cutlet”? One of its meanings is “ finely chopped pieces of meat, fish, vegetables, etc. that are pressed together into a flat piece, covered with breadcrumbs and cooked”. But the dictionary says that in this meaning the word is only used in compounds. Does it mean I always have to add "MEAT cutlet" if I want to refer to a cutlet? And how can I tell a cutlet as a thick slice of meat from a cutlet as a fried ground meat?
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:05:30 AM

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Here's a discussion online, Helene, that may help a bit. A beefburger seems to be what one Brit called it.

We call it a chopped steak when cooked if the patty is not made into a sandwich i.e. a hamburger and you eat it with mashed potatoes etc.

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/uk-meaning-of-burger-and-chips.2651333/

The pix you show of rissoles are half way between meatballs or croquettes and the flatter hamburger patties. I try to flatten them to make sure they are cooked in the centre, as ground meat is more liable to harbor bacteria, without burning the outside. Maybe that is why they deep fry the thicker rissoles. I should look up how to pronounce the word as I didn't notice when I got the meaning.



It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:10:46 AM

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We usually use the word cutlet to mean a breaded whole piece of meat, such as a veal cutlet. I guess once it is breaded you can't tell exactly what it is without reading the package or the restaurant menu. I don't use convenience foods and rarely eat out and just coat foods myself so I don't really know much about it.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:17:30 AM
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First - Hope: they aren't deep-fried: we leave deep-frying to the Scots! Because they aren't flat they take a while to cook so it's enough to lightly spray/pour a little oil to sear each side and then turn right down and let them simmer in their own juices. And we eat in them in tons of different ways - with pasta, with bacon and gravy, in casseroles, stuffed with a boiled egg inside, cold with salad or on pic-nics, barb-a-qued, as a stew, in different sauces with rice, small ones in cous-cous etc. etc.etc.

Helenej - nowadays the average person wouldn't understand "cutlet" to mean anything other than a particular cut of meat. Unless they were a Foodie.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:29:36 AM

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A useful link. Thank you, Hope123.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:36:35 AM

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Helenej wrote:
almo 1 wrote:
[quote=Sarrriesfan]The closest thing I can think of is a croquette, I have had potato, duck and veal croquettes before now.

Croquettes are really very close though they usually look like rolls, not flat.


But they can be flat as in the second photograph in the Wikipedia article.

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:47:30 AM

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Hope123 wrote:


Do Brits not have the best chocolate bar ever - a peppermint patty? Wish I could post a photo.

Edited - those look tasty, Almo.


No Hope, we don't have Peppermint Patty brand chocolate here, but we have things that are very similar.

Products like Bendicks Bittermints ( who current hold the Queens Royal Warrant).

https://www.bendicks.co.uk/our-delicious-range/bitters.html

I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:52:18 AM

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Sarrriesfan wrote:
But they can be flat as in the second photograph in the Wikipedia article.

Most recipes for croquettes pop up on the Internet with the word "potato". Also, the word "croquette"comes from the French word meaning "crunch", so maybe they are typically associated with potatoes even if they can be made with meat. Again, very close, but rissoles seem to be closer.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:07:32 PM

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You haven’t answered my question, Харбин Хейлундзян. It would be really interesting to know if that trash about banning Wikipedia in Ukraine comes from the Russian television.
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:21:03 PM

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OK, maybe you will answer another question?

I’ve always been wondering what your nickname Харбин Хейлундзян (Harbin Heilongjiang) means. Does it mean you want to get back the Chinese province of Heilongjiang with its capital Harbin? There is a good excuse for that because it was the Russian tsar who ordered to build the city on the rented territory. I wouldn’t be surprised if you admitted that you do, since the Russians evidently don’t see anything bad in occupying any territory that they think should belong to them. Even members of your parliament sing songs about that in public. That MP lady swears to get Alaska back? But Russia sold it to the US more than 150 years ago!
We will return Alaska
Fyfardens
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 2:03:37 PM
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I suspect that Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 was merely suggesting that, had you used wikipedia, you would have found the answer to your question quite quickly.

Be warned, Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 . Attempts at humour can be misunderstood.

I speak British English (standard southern, slightly dated).
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 3:07:23 PM

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Fyfardens wrote:
I suspect that Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 was merely suggesting that, had you used wikipedia, you would have found the answer to your question quite quickly.

Be warned, Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 . Attempts at humour can be misunderstood.

Humour? Thousands of questions about words’ meanings have been asked on this thread since Харбин joined the forum, but he has never dared to say to anyone, “Hey, why the heck you ask questions here? Has Wikipedia been banned in your country?”

He only dares to put such “humorous” questions to Ukrainians because he hates Ukraine. Ukraine is not in their orbit now and they can’t accept that. That’s why their soldiers stamp our land and kill our citizens. He knows well that here, many Russian propagandist sites are banned, many Russian propagandist movies are banned and Russian actors and singers with anti-Ukrainian views are not allowed to come to Ukraine. All this infuriates him and here is where his sarcastic question comes from.

You are new here, Fyfardens, and of course you haven’t read what Харбин has said here about Ukraine and its people before, but you might want to search for it in order to estimate his real hatred and his real humour.


FounDit
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 3:45:35 PM

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Helenej wrote:
And what if I don’t batter those before frying? If I just take ground meat with an egg and some chopped onion, shape it into discs, breadcrumb them and then fry in a skillet? Will they be “meat patties”?


Mix tomato sauce and the breadcrumbs with your other ingredients into the meat, and you've almost got meat loaf patties. Coat with ketchup. Umm, sounds delicious. I'm getting hungry now.


A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
Helenej
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 4:29:31 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Mix tomato sauce and the breadcrumbs with your other ingredients into the meat, and you've almost got meat loaf patties. Coat with ketchup. Umm, sounds delicious. I'm getting hungry now.

A good recipe. And even healthier as meat loaf patties are baked, not fried.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:55:11 PM

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They look tasty, Sarrri. I see you have Nestles' "After Eights" - wafer thin peppermint patties in the UK too. They are very popular at Christmas here.

https://www.nestle.co.uk/brands/chocolate_and_confectionery/boxed

That's my meat loaf recipe, FD. That, ketchup, veggies, and a baked potato... mmm And home made apple pie with cheese?



It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:57:46 PM

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Ro, I went by what it said online re the deep frying. What a lot of ingenious ways to serve them!

Edited - Helene, here are some pix of veal and pork cutlets - along with the recipes. If I weren't full, I'd be interested right now. There used to be a German restaurant in Guelph, Ontario called the Steirorhoff or some such spelling, that served great veal cutlets. My husband went there for lunch once a week when he was working there and they had his meal ready for him every Friday when he and his colleagues walked in. I think it is his favorite meal but I never cook it for him.

https://www.thespruce.com/classic-breaded-veal-cutlets-recipe-2215832


It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:35:33 AM

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Helenej wrote:
FounDit wrote:
Mix tomato sauce and the breadcrumbs with your other ingredients into the meat, and you've almost got meat loaf patties. Coat with ketchup. Umm, sounds delicious. I'm getting hungry now.

A good recipe. And even healthier as meat loaf patties are baked, not fried.


Right. Haven't had any meat loaf in a while but add what Hope said, veggies like corn, baked or mashed potatoes, buttered rolls, and Oh, my, I need to quit!...*LOL*


A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
almo 1
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:21:00 AM
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Helenej wrote:
FounDit wrote:
Mix tomato sauce and the breadcrumbs with your other ingredients into the meat, and you've almost got meat loaf patties. Coat with ketchup. Umm, sounds delicious. I'm getting hungry now.

A good recipe. And even healthier as meat loaf patties are baked, not fried.










If you keep eating the same thing,
not only fried stuff but anything,
it could be unhealthy diet.


Tempura is delicious and healthy food.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempura




Helenej
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 6:41:47 AM

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almo 1 wrote:
If you keep eating the same thing,not only fried stuff but anything,it could be unhealthy diet.

I agree. Seafood and vegetables are much more better. I was only comparing the way of cooking, seeing baking healthier than frying.

Healthy food is good but sometimes I feel like eating something really bad, like sausage or chips (crisps), for example.Anxious
thar
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 7:35:00 AM

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I must admit I don't think I've ever eaten anything called a rissole. A fancy 'French cuisine' word? Whistle

Quote:
RISSOLER, verbe
ART CULIN.
A. − Empl. trans. Mettre à feu vif ou à température élevée une viande, des légumes pour en dorer la surface et la rendre croustillante. Synon. gratiner, rôtir.


Whistle Whistle
Helenej
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 7:57:51 AM

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thar wrote:
I must admit I don't think I've ever eaten anything called a rissole.

You live in the US, don't you, thar? Sorry for not remembering.
thar
Posted: Sunday, January 7, 2018 9:05:57 AM

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No, I a currently living in Hackney, East London.

(Or North London. Not East London, South Africa! Whistle )


(If you had seen Purim in my street, you would get this).

















No rissoles! Whistle

On the plus side, I am learning some Turkish! Applause Applause
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