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Exercises and Explanations-Reported Speech. (5) Options
DavidLearn
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:33:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
Hi teachers,
This is an exercise that after given my students the proper explanations, also with charts, about direct and indirect speech I intend to do.
Could you tell me if they correct?

******************************************************************
Now you are going to explain to your classmates what other people told you yesterday.

1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how was the food.
Peter said, “I really like it.”
Today, the scenario has changed, You want to tell your classmates what Peter said yesterday. How would you say that using the verbs (a) “said” and (b) “told”?
a) He said (that) he really liked it.
b) He told me (that) he really liked it.

I really hope that there no mistakes in this one. Anxious

Thanks.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:48:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 8,446
Neurons: 45,350
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
This is an exercise that after given my students the proper explanations, also with charts, about direct and indirect speech I intend to do.
Could you tell me if they correct?

******************************************************************
Now you are going to explain to your classmates what other people told you yesterday.

1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how was the food.
Peter said, “I really liked it.”
Today, the scenario has changed, You want to tell your classmates what Peter said yesterday. How would you say that using the verbs (a) “said” and (b) “told”?
a) He said (that) he really liked it.
b) He told me (that) he really liked it.

I really hope that there no mistakes in this one. Anxious

Thanks.


Both answers read well, and sound very natural.

A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
DavidLearn
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:02:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
FounDit wrote:
1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how was the food.
Peter said, “I really liked it.”


Hi FounDit,
Thanks for your help,
Shouldn't it be: Peter said, "I really like it".

Like in this one:
Yesterday, you saw Tina in her office and asked how business was:
Tina said, “We are busy.”

David.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:09:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 8,446
Neurons: 45,350
DavidLearn wrote:
FounDit wrote:
1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how was the food.
Peter said, “I really liked it.”


Hi FounDit,
Thanks for your help,
Shouldn't it be: Peter said, "I really like it".
I used "liked" because you asked him after dinner. Since dinner was completed, "was" and "liked" fit. If you had asked during dinner, then he would say "I like it".

Like in this one:
Yesterday, you saw Tina in her office and asked how business was:
Tina said, “We are busy.”
Here, business is an ongoing affair. It isn't something that is over when the question is asked, so "We are busy" fits.

David.


A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
DavidLearn
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:25:53 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
DavidLearn wrote:
1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how was the food.
Peter said, “I really liked it.”


DavidLearn wrote:
Shouldn't it be: Peter said, "I really like it".

FounDit wrote:
I used "liked" because you asked him after dinner. Since dinner was completed, "was" and "liked" fit. If you had asked during dinner, then he would say "I like it".

Now it makes a lot of sense! Thanks.

DavidLearn wrote:
Yesterday, you saw Tina in her office and asked how business was:
Tina said, “We are busy.”

FounDit wrote:
Here, business is an ongoing affair. It isn't something that is over when the question is asked, so "We are busy" fits.

It does make sense too! Angel

David.
thar
Posted: Saturday, December 23, 2017 3:59:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 16,324
Neurons: 65,330
Also "How was the food?" is a direct question, with question word order.

In reporting it, you asked him how the food was. No question, no subject-verb inversion.

You might hear it the first way because sometimes when speaking you speak as if quoting the direct speech - that may be why nobody corrected ut - but if this is about indirect speech you have to show the correct grammatical word order.
DavidLearn
Posted: Saturday, December 23, 2017 6:45:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
thar wrote:
Also "How was the food?" is a direct question, with question word order.

In reporting it, you asked him how the food was. No question, no subject-verb inversion.

You might hear it the first way because sometimes when speaking you speak as if quoting the direct speech - that may be why nobody corrected ut - but if this is about indirect speech you have to show the correct grammatical word order.


Hi thar,
Thanks for the correction as well as your comment.

David.
DavidLearn
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:49:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
Hi again,
This is an exercise that after given my students the proper explanations, also with charts, about direct and indirect speech I intend to do.



Now you are going to explain to your classmates what other people told you yesterday.

1. Yesterday, you prepared some food for Peter and after dinner you asked him how the food was.
Peter said, “I really liked it.”
Today, the scenario has changed, You want to tell your classmates what Peter said yesterday. How would you say that using the verbs (a) “said” and (b) “told”?
a) He said (that) he really liked it.
b) He told me (that) he really liked it.

******************************************************************
My Question:
Shouldn't "a" and "b" be these ones:
a) He said (that) he had really liked it.
b) He told me (that) he had really liked it.

I believe these ones are correct because of the backshift of Simple Past; right?

Thanks.
thar
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:12:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 16,324
Neurons: 65,330
This is complicated, so this is just my opinion of what sounds natural.

You have it right with 'he said he liked it'.


Technically, back stepping from '"I liked" it should be 'said he had liked'.
But I don't think that is natural.

If something happened before he spoke, that becomes past perfect in indirect speech because it is before the other event in the past (the speaking).

Eg
He said, "I poisoned the food" becomes
'He said he had poisoned the food' because it happened before he spoke.

But he didn't stop liking the food just because he finished eating it.
It was a state that continued to when he was speaking.
He said, "I liked the food", but he was still of the same opinion when he spoke.


The past perfect is useful, but it is s bit clumsy. Native speakers tend to avoid using it unless it is required (and Americans even then Whistle ).

What you are reporting is the spirit of what he said, and there is no real need to basckstep the timing to past perfect.
He said he liked the food.


Of course, if anything does make it 'past' it would be important:
He said,"I liked the food, until you told me it was horsemeat. Now I can't eat it."

He said he'd liked the food until we'd told him it was horsemeat. Then he couldn't eat it.


How on Earth you are going to explain that to your learners....d'oh!

Maybe easier to just tell them to backstep it. It's not wrong, and in other examples not back stepping would be wrong.
Maybe it is better to learn the rule first and learn when to bend it later.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:20:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,506
Neurons: 153,691
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Gosh! Tenses are so . . .

This is the similar situation to the 'like' and 'liked' choice, I think - but even more vague.

To my 'ear', they both sound 'OK'. I would not correct someone saying either.

I see that thar answered while I was 'pondering' - he's right.

I would say
"If it is important to put some time between the dinner with Peter and the conversation with Peter, use the past perfect."

Generally the past will sound simpler (and shorter) - therefore better.




Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
DavidLearn
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:26:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
thar wrote:
This is complicated, so this is just my opinion of what sounds natural.

You have it right with 'he said he liked it'.


Technically, back stepping from '"I liked" it should be 'said he had liked'.
But I don't think that is natural.

If something happened before he spoke, that becomes past perfect in indirect speech because it is before the other event in the past (the speaking).

Eg
He said, "I poisoned the food" becomes
'He said he had poisoned the food' because it happened before he spoke.

But he didn't stop liking the food just because he finished eating it.
It was a state that continued to when he was speaking.
He said, "I liked the food", but he was still of the same opinion when he spoke.


The past perfect is useful, but it is s bit clumsy. Native speakers tend to avoid using it unless it is required (and Americans even then Whistle ).

What you are reporting is the spirit of what he said, and there is no real need to basckstep the timing to past perfect.
He said he liked the food.


Of course, if anything does make it 'past' it would be important:
He said,"I liked the food, until you told me it was horsemeat. Now I can't eat it."

He said he'd liked the food until we'd told him it was horsemeat. Then he couldn't eat it.


How on Earth you are going to explain that to your learners....d'oh!

Maybe easier to just tell them to backstep it. It's not wrong, and in other examples not back stepping would be wrong.
Maybe it is better to learn the rule first and learn when to bend it later.


Hi thar,
Thanks for the very precise explanation. You are very right, how am I going to explain that to my students??? Brick wall
I will change the example. That's my only way.
I agree with you. It's better to learn the rule first and learn how to bend it later.

David.
DavidLearn
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:29:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,087
Neurons: 21,810
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Gosh! Tenses are so . . . Tell me about it!! d'oh!

This is the similar situation to the 'like' and 'liked' choice, I think - but even more vague.

To my 'ear', they both sound 'OK'. I would not correct someone saying either.

I see that thar answered while I was 'pondering' - he's right.

I would say
"If it is important to put some time between the dinner with Peter and the conversation with Peter, use the past perfect."

Generally the past will sound simpler (and shorter) - therefore better.


Hi Drag0n,
Thanks for you reply and comments.

David.
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