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Morning Star - Yeshua/Satan Options
Sanmayce
Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 1:33:37 PM

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A month ago while watching the podcast of one American chatterbox (as me) I asked in comment section for clarification. Today, a guy answered my question:

KJV -
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Most if not all other English translations mistranslate and create confusion between lucifer and Jesus, as you can see below.
NIV -
Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Hisgalus 22:16 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

16 “I, Yehoshua sent My malach (angel) to give solemn eidus (testimony) to you of these things, for the Kehillot. I am the Shoresh (root) and the offspring of Dovid, the Kokhav HaShachar.

How come we have two morning stars? So, who can deoverlap/disoverlap the "overlapping"? What "Kokhav HaShachar" stands for?

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
Sanmayce
Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 1:42:00 PM

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Oh, just realized that the thread name rises another question for disoverlapping - Satan/Lucifer. Many people, myself included, use them interchangeably.

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 1:43:07 AM

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Sanmayce wrote:
What "Kokhav HaShachar" stands for?


It means "star of the morning", literally.


In both examples Lucifer and Jesus are in turn likened to the morning star, itself usually a good omen.

In the case of Lucifer, the intent is to show how far he had fallen, not to make a permanent identification with the morning star. Indeed, the word "lucifer" itself means "that which brings (bears) light". The name suggests that he was so close to God that he reflected the Divine Light, which he proudly allowed others to worship as if it were his own.

For many centuries the nuances of various evil entities have been simplified into a common arch-enemy, the Devil, who now travels under several aliases. Keep in mind that for over a thousand years, most christians were not able to read the Bible, except for trained priests and bishops, and even if they could they probably couldn't afford one. Their Sunday school consisted of homilies and hymns at services and festivals.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Sanmayce
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:54:02 PM

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Thanks. Didn't look up this Hebrew or Aramaic phrase, thought that it might be misdefined. It puzzles me how people accept a statement as if there is no question about it. On the other hand, critical thinking often misdirects because bypasses the intuition, so it is overrated, to me. My way is the middle way. In case with this whole good versus bad plot in the Bible I see no middle ground, it is like you should choose one or the other, nah. My view is different, both forces serve a purpose and thus they are allowed. Many people ask why God allows atrocities, I ask also. Of the whole Bible I like only Job, inthere the angel of accusation Satan plays the role of adversary while being servant of God, somehow in NT someone made him all-evil, funny, it is like slandering the "slanderer" which in itself appears ... Satanic. Who knows whether Satan is not a bug-reporter of the creation, or beta-tester or fault-finder or just being head of quality-control.

As for Morning Star, maybe both Lucifer and Yeshua are sons of the Morning, with the twist one becoming corrupted somehow.

Two days ago saw this on quora.com:

Jesus and Satan have an argument as to who is the better programmer. This goes on for a few hours until they come to an agreement to hold a contest with God as the judge. They set themselves before their computers and begin. They type furiously, lines of code streaming up the screen, for several hours straight.

Seconds before the end of the competition, a bolt of lightning strikes, taking out the electricity. Moments later, the power is restored, and God announces that the contest is over. He asks Satan to show his work. Visibly upset, Satan cries and says, “I have nothing. I lost it all when the power went out.”

“Very well,” says God, “let us see if Jesus has fared any better.”

Jesus presses a key, and the screen comes to life in vivid display, the voices of an angelic choir pour forth from the speakers.

Satan is astonished. He stutters, “B-b-but how?! I lost everything, yet Jesus’ program is intact! How did he do it?”

God chuckles, “Everybody knows… Jesus saves.”


Source: http://www.devtopics.com/best-programming-jokes/

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
dusty
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 11:28:37 AM

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I always assumed that the Devel. was the abbreviated term Developer

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Litvinenko
Posted: Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:22:33 AM

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The contest looks unfair to Satan. The God is a homer.

A perfect design, with no designer.
Sanmayce
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:21:21 PM

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dusty wrote:
I always assumed that the Devel. was the abbreviated term Developer


Got it, another angle, in photography developer/developing is the actual "come forth" agent/process - thus Devil/Devel helps in developing, hee-hee, in all the senses.

>The contest looks unfair to Satan. The God is a homer.

Didn't get it, you meant biased? I find the black out very funny, the contest is "unfair", yes, playing dirty is quite a twist in this joke.

He learns not to learn and reverts to what all men pass by.
Nelson Cerqueira
Posted: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:31:06 PM

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Drool When a dream becomes reality
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, June 28, 2018 7:30:21 AM

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There is a lot more - this etymological base 'light-bringer', 'morning star', 'shining one', 'bringer of the dawn' is known in most old religions.

Hēlēl or a variant of it was an adjective and noun in Hebrew, meaning "light-bringing" or "morning star" or "Venus". In the old translations of the Jewish bible, it is translated as 'Lucifer'.
The religion which mutated into Judaism (from Canaan) had Hēlal or Attar with the same meanings - and the myth of this spirit trying to outshine the others but being banished from their company (as Venus is the brightest star, but never appears during the night with the other stars).

Phosphoros ('shining one', 'morning star') and Lucifer were alternative names for Castor - while his brother Pollux was also known as "Hesperos" - the evening star.

Of course, you will also recognise Ester, Esther, Astra, Astara, Aster, Astarte, Ishtar, Vashti and various other Biblical, Hebrew and Persian names as being related, with the general meaning of "star" and often with an implication of "Venus".

"Lucifer" was not a biblical name of Satan or 'The Devil' - it has been mistakenly used as such in recent times. This is probably just a misunderstanding of the myth of the Fall - one angel 'the morning star, the brightest one' trying to set him/herself up as a god over other angels. This description was not the name Lucifer, but just the description 'lucifer'.

Even in relatively modern Christianity, there are Bishop Lucifer of Sienna and even Saint Lucifer of Cagliari.

It's even more complex in Islam, as Ishtar, the morning star, is a woman who got two male angels drunk and had them tell her the password to pass into heaven. When she arrived, she was changed into the planet Venus.
The angel who 'Fell' was completely separate - he was Shaytan (Satan). Like in the earliest versions of the Hebrew and Christian Old Testament, it was not that Satan tried to be a god or God - just that he refused to consider Man as senior to Angels. He 'refused to bow down to Adam'.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:05:58 AM

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Dragon,
Thank you very much for this enlightening post.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:43:31 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
just that he refused to consider Man as senior to Angels. He 'refused to bow down to Adam'.


Sounds reasonable. Think

I know next to nothing about religion though.
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