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Harry got himself moved to the New York office. Options
Luker4
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 5:41:08 PM

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Harry got himself moved to the New York office - from a grammar printout.

How would you rephrase this sentence ?
Parpar1836
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 5:51:06 PM
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Harry got himself transferred to the New York office.
Luker4
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 6:13:42 PM

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thank you :) you reassured me. I don't know why but I've had some crazy ideas about meaning this sentence (it's late here Whistle )

So let's say he took a taxi to the New York office.

He got himself taken to the New York office.

does the last sentence sound right ? Think

Parpar1836
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 6:24:18 PM
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Harry took a taxi to the New York office.

But if you want to go into detail:

Harry hailed a taxi on Fifth Avenue, and was driven in pelting rain to the New York office. He was grateful he arrived safely, and that he arrived in time for the stockholders' meeting.

BUT...

Harry was taken in an ambulance to the emergency room.



thar
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 7:35:29 PM

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This is about arranging for something to happen.

In a company, someone senior decides where you will work. They transfer you to the New York office, or move you to the New York office. You don't get to choose. You can put in a request, but the decision is not yours. Being moved to New York sounds like a promotion, not a punishment.


That is what happened here - a senior person ordered this.
Harry was moved to the New York office.

But Harry arranged it, somehow. He arranged for the job (of deciding to move him) to be done by someone else - he got it done. Maybe he took the HR officer out for nice meals, or hacked into their computer, or did such a good job that his request for a transfer was impossible to refuse. However he did it, he somehow controlled that decision.
Harry got himself moved to the New York office.

So using the passive, it shows the moving was done by someone else - but by using the active 'got' it is saying it was somehow arranged by him. That somehow he influenced the person who was making that decision.
Those two almost contradictory pieces of information.

It only works where you get someone else to do the work for you.
eg
Harry got his hair cut - ie he payed someone to cut it, and didn't do it himself.

But you don't 'get yourself taken somewhere'.
That is his action, he took a taxi.
If he had hired a car and driver, he would have got himself driven - ie he arranged for the job of driving him to be done, rather that doing it himself.

But not 'got himself taken' - because that is not an action he would have done himself - he would not have taken himself there (although that is a colloquial phrase, it is still not something you can outsource). He would have driven there. He would have taken a taxi there.

So your original sentence -
Harry arranged for the company to transfer him to the New York office.

Luker4
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 3:17:22 AM

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Thank you Parpar1836 and thar

very helpful. Applause


thar
Posted: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 3:50:03 AM

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Thanks
On reading this through, I realise that I said 'he arranged it' because that is the common meaning of to get something done, and because being moved to New York seemed like a positive outcome.

But it can be unintentional, but still something that happens because of what you have done.
For example, if Harry got himself moved to the Swampy Town office in The Middle of Nowhere, I would assume that was not intentional. But he still caused it to happen. Maybe he got drunk at the Christmas party, flirted with the boss's daughter and vomited over the chairman of the board. He got himself moved to the Swampy Town office.Whistle
Parpar1836
Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:43:11 AM
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You're quite welcome. I continue to refine my understanding of English on these forums.
Luker4
Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2017 11:48:46 AM

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It's a good place for people like us Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Applause Applause

let's leave Harry alone with his affairs, who knows what he got himself into Whistle


I have a different question now.

Correct this sentence using the causative form

"he's stopped making his sports jackets"

How would you tackle this one ?
thar
Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2017 4:11:18 PM

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Umm, I don't quite get that one.

Is he currently making his own clothes?


And I'm afraid I'm not sure what causative is - you mean he causes it to happen?
That would be he has stopped having them made?
Not sure, because the scenario sounds a bit odd!

Parpar1836
Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2017 7:44:03 PM
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He's no longer manufacturing those sports jackets.

His company has discontinued making those sports jackets.

(I hope Harry caught the taxi in time for the meeting.)
Luker4
Posted: Friday, December 08, 2017 3:37:09 AM

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Yes that is a strange task.

He has stopped having his sports jackets made


the best what comes to mind is: He has his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued.


(Harry's doing ok, he had a new car bought for him yesterday)
Parpar1836
Posted: Friday, December 08, 2017 9:47:53 AM
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Glad to know that Harry has arrived where he wanted to be.

Lots of U.S. manufacturers have discontinued their lines, which are now outsourced.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:53:56 PM

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thar wrote:
Harry got himself moved to the New York office.

So using the passive, it shows the moving was done by someone else - but by using the active 'got' it is saying it was somehow arranged by him. That somehow he influenced the person who was making that decision.
Those two almost contradictory pieces of information.

It only works where you get someone else to do the work for you.
eg
Harry got his hair cut - ie he payed someone to cut it, and didn't do it himself.

But you don't 'get yourself taken somewhere'.
That is his action, he took a taxi.
If he had hired a car and driver, he would have got himself driven - ie he arranged for the job of driving him to be done, rather that doing it himself.

But not 'got himself taken' - because that is not an action he would have done himself - he would not have taken himself there (although that is a colloquial phrase, it is still not something you can outsource). He would have driven there. He would have taken a taxi there.

So your original sentence -
Harry arranged for the company to transfer him to the New York office.


Thar, may I ask you there is no form of the verb 'be' used? So, there is no complete passive construction in 'Harry got himself moved to the New York office.' Thus, why have you said 'So using the passive'? Have you said 'so using the passive' since the past participle 'moved' has a passive meaning?
Harry got himself moved to the New York office. => Harry got someone move him to the New York office.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:25:12 PM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Luker4 wrote:
Yes that is a strange task.

He has stopped having his sports jackets made


the best what comes to mind is: He has his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued.


(Harry's doing ok, he had a new car bought for him yesterday)


Since 'has' cannot be used as a causative structure(Causative # 1 – HAVE/GET SOMETHING DONE), 'cause something to be done by somebody else.', I think "He has his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued." should have been written:
He gets his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued.
He has stopped having his production of sports jackets made.
He got his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued.
He had his production of sports jackets stopped/discontinued.




Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:00:14 AM

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I wouldn't bother working with that sentence.
It only makes sense if 'he' is a millionaire who has a standing order for a new jacket from his tailor every month, and he has just cancelled that order - ie it doesn't make sense.
(No offence DF - I just don't want to see Coop practicing on a bad example.
Coop - this does not express what you are trying to say))


About the construction
That us just the way it works!


His car was washed.
He got his car washed.

Harry was moved
He got himself moved.


At a certain point, there is no explanation except 'this is how that particular construction works'.
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