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Tara2
Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 5:45:20 PM

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In the following reference, it is said that "to talk about what people wanted to do or were willing to do" we use "would" as the past of will, and there is the two sample below.
1. We had a terrible night. The baby wouldn’t go to sleep. He kept waking up and crying.
2. Dad wouldn’t lend me the car, so we had to take the train.

But I can't understand why the first sentence is related to "what people wanted to do", because there isn't anything about "what people wanted" and also I don't know why the second sentence is related to "what people were willing to do". can you please clarify that?

Reference: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar/verbs/modal-verbs/will-or-would.
Audiendus
Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:09:41 PM
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In both sentences, "wouldn't" means "refused to".

The baby did not want to go to sleep (was unwilling to go to sleep), so he didn't.
Dad did not want to lend me the car (was unwilling to lend me the car), so he didn't.
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 1:46:57 AM

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Audiendus wrote:
In both sentences, "wouldn't" means "refused to".

The baby did not want to go to sleep (was unwilling to go to sleep), so he didn't.
Dad did not want to lend me the car (was unwilling to lend me the car), so he didn't.


Can you please tell me your opinion about the sentence below?
It would be better to say...
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 7:41:22 AM
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taaraa wrote:
Can you please tell me your opinion about the sentence below?
It would be better to say...


It is an implied conditional. The sense is something like:

"If you had to decide between two ways of saying it, it would be better to say...".
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 8:06:01 AM

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In a conversation like the below:

I like you.
It would be better to say 'I love you'

Here one person says the two sentence. Do you think is 'conditional' fit?
Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 8:20:23 AM
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taaraa wrote:
I like you.
It would be better to say 'I love you'

Here one person says the two sentence. Do you think is 'conditional' fit?


Yes. The meaning is something like:

"I like you. But if I had to choose between 'I like you' and 'I love you', it would be better to say 'I love you'."
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 8:24:44 AM

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I appreciate you help.
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 11:11:32 AM

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It can be as below?
If I said 'I love you' it would be better.
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 12:42:53 PM

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I founded the below passage in a book:

If the first verb in a conditional if-clause is should, were, or had (see Unit 99) we can leave out if
and put the verb at the start of the clause. We do this particularly in formal or literary English
(see also Unit 119):
• Should any of this cost you anything, send me the bill. (= If any of this should cost...)
• It would be embarrassing, were she to find out the truth. (= ...if she were to find out...)
• Had they not rushed Dan to hospital



Then if we write "It would be better to say 'I love you'" as:
It would be better if I were to say 'I love you'.

If according the passage above we want to rewrite that. we should write:
It would be better, were to I say...
And it isn't 'it would be better to say"i love you"', Why?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 1:06:15 PM

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Hi!

I don't really understand the last question.

"It would be better to say 'I love you.'"
"It would be better if I were to say 'I love you.'"
"It would be better, were I to say 'I love you.'"

These are all correct. The most common (in spoken English, at least, would be the first and shortest.

The phrase inferring the condition in the first one (to say 'I love you')does not include the words "should, were, or had" and does not have a subject, so one cannot reverse the 'were' and subject.

*********
Quote:
If I said 'I love you' it would be better.

This sounds OK, but I feel it needs a comma.
If I said 'I love you', it would be better.

Also, it is more natural (at least, for me) to use the shorter, simpler version:
"It would be better to say 'I love you.'"

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 1:38:01 PM

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Hi,Drag0nspeaker!
Someone said "1. it would be better to say 'I love you'" is like "2. It would be better if I were to say 'I love you.'"

I searched that how we can write the second one like the first one, that I could find the passage in the earlier post.

in your opinion the first one is simplify what sentence ??



Audiendus
Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 7:36:23 PM
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taaraa wrote:
in your opinion the first one is simplify what sentence ??


Please see my last post above, where I gave the full 'conditional' version of this sentence.
Tara2
Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 1:07:18 AM

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But it is different from something I said. s/he don't want to say "if I had to choose between 'I love you' and 'I like you' it would be better....". s/he first says: I like you and then amend something who said and says: "it would be better to say 'I love you'".
Tara2
Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 7:28:19 AM

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Is it right if we write the sentence one as the sentence two?
1. Dad would be really mad if he knew we borrowed his car.
2. Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.
Tara2
Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:11:18 PM

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In the following sentences, the underlined parts are similar grammatically.
1. It would be better to say...
2. You will be obliged to sign a contract before starting employment.
3. You'll have to let me know when it arrives.


Can the statement below (4) be written as (5)according to the structure above?
4. Dad would be really mad if he knew we borrowed his car.
5. Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:04:26 PM
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taaraa wrote:
Is it right if we write the sentence one as the sentence two?
1. Dad would be really mad if he knew we borrowed his car.
2. Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.


Yes, that is OK.
Tara2
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:17:53 AM

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Audiendus wrote:
taaraa wrote:
Is it right if we write the sentence one as the sentence two?
1. Dad would be really mad if he knew we borrowed his car.
2. Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.


Yes, that is OK.

Which rule allow us that can rewrite '1' as '2'?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:39:26 AM

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There is not really a "rule" which says "After the verb phrase 'be mad', the infinitive can be used instead of an 'if clause'."

It is just one of the many uses of a 'to-infinitive phrase'. It can be used as the object of some verbs (including verbs of 'feeling' or 'attitude').

I like to eat fruit.
He would like to have a cat.
She would love to see you.
I hate to say anything derogatory.
Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.


See the section "Objects" on this page.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:46:02 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
There is not really a "rule" which says "After the verb phrase 'be mad', the infinitive can be used instead of an 'if clause'."

It is just one of the many uses of a 'to-infinitive phrase'. It can be used as the object of some verbs (including verbs of 'feeling' or 'attitude').

I like to eat fruit.
He would like to have a cat.
She would love to see you.
I hate to say anything derogatory.
Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.


See the section "Objects" on this page.


I appreciate your help Drag0nspeaker.
Tara2
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:46:43 AM

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Audiendus wrote:
taaraa wrote:
Is it right if we write the sentence one as the sentence two?
1. Dad would be really mad if he knew we borrowed his car.
2. Dad would be really mad to know we borrowed his car.


Yes, that is OK.

I appreciate your help Audiendus.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:13:08 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
taaraa wrote:
I appreciate your help Drag0nspeaker.


You're welcome.
You are looking at two of the most "awkward" pieces of English grammar here.

The verb 'would' (and the others like 'will, should, could', too) has MANY different uses.

The infinitive is also used for many things - as it says in the referenced article ". . . they can function as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs—that is, nearly any role in a sentence except that of a main verb."

I've been speaking English for 65 years, and I'm sometimes uncertain whether I have chosen the 'correct' phrase when these forms are used.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tara2
Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 6:01:58 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
taaraa wrote:
I appreciate your help Drag0nspeaker.


You're welcome.
You are looking at two of the most "awkward" pieces of English grammar here.

The verb 'would' (and the others like 'will, should, could', too) has MANY different uses.

The infinitive is also used for many things - as it says in the referenced article ". . . they can function as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs—that is, nearly any role in a sentence except that of a main verb."

I've been speaking English for 65 years, and I'm sometimes uncertain whether I have chosen the 'correct' phrase when these forms are used.


Thanks so much.
I should study a lot that can be able use 'will/would'.
whenever I see 'will' or 'would' in sentences I can't understand why it is used.
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