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Australian Constitution Drama Options
Tovarish
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 11:49:20 PM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
There has been controversy down here with our politicians and potential dual citizenship.

Seven of our politicians have been caught up in a dual citizenship drama, as more than 50% of our population has at least one parent born over seas.

Some countries go back seven generations of potential citizenship to another country even if they were born in Australia.

The High Court determined 'ignorance is no excuse', even if citizenship of another country has never been claimed, some countries claim the

maternal side others the paternal side.

Our Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce and leader of the National Party has been the highest person to be stood down, he was born in

Australia from an Australian mother but his dad was a New Zealander so he was entitled to claim dual citizenship even if he hadnt.

We always seem to find a way to pay the Lawyers.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-28/what-has-the-high-courts-citizenship-decision-taught-us/9093530
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 1:21:43 AM

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Potential seems pushing the envelope. Do they have dual citizenship papers? And where were THEY themselves born? Seems to me those are the questions to be answered. But then I'm not a lawyer, Tov. So the govt lost its majority over it.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
Andrew Schultz
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 2:11:15 AM

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This seems wild. I admit it seems like a good idea for elected government officials to be full citizens of their own countries, even if they are dual citizens with an ally.

But on the other hand, it's funny that the National Party, with a hard line on immigration, got caught up with this.

I know the US had some questions about repealing the need to be born in the US to be President. It's a stipulation that doesn't seem relevant any more. The point was, if you weren't born here, you were more likely to come under foreign influence. It worked well for the first 240 years.

Recently, though, governors like Arnold Schwarzenegger (California, Austria) and Jennifer Granholm (Michigan, Canada) have been unable to run for president. Ted Cruz, who was born in Canada, was eligible as his mother was a US citizen. So it's all a bit confusing even to citizens who follow things.

100th person on TFD to 1 million neurons.
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 3:21:24 AM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
We have had several Prime Ministers born overseas, Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott come immediately to mind with out researching.

Barnaby of Boo and Pistol? fame, was born in Toowoomba, Qld, his mum is a multy generational Aussie but his dad came from NZ, he had never applied for NZ citizenship but

the High Court said he could have and should have been aware of this.

One woman was born in Canada of Aussie parents, she was less than a week old when she and her parents return to Australia.

Another's mother could have claimed Italian citizenship but he hadn't.

These regulations were written at Federation time, 1901 when things were so different to prevent an alliance to another country.

I don't think anyone is implying that this may have been the case but the letter of the law is the law, and just like the Tax Office, ignorance is no excuse.
thar
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:22:56 AM

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It does seem fundamentally unfair to exclude them for something they are eligible for, rather than something they have done. I could choose to murder someone, but that doesn't make me a murderer!
Surely getting citizenship takes time and effort - just being eligible is so not the same thing as filling out the form and proudly getting you passport with the national emblem on. That is an issue of identity and 'loyalty' - but that does not seem to be the issue here, if I am understanding this correctly.
And so ironic, considering in effect practically everyone with power in Australia has come from somewhere else within recorded history (ie non-Aboriginal or TSI)
This rule must have been breached so many more times in the past!
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:42:09 PM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
It would be Thar, a search of prior parliamentarians would dig up untold members who would qualify as potentially dual citizens.

One politician had a distant Italian relative, he had never applied for citizenship of Italy, he could not vote in Italy or hold a passport without an application but the

High Court is saying he could have, seems so silly.

All the advice along the way from the Attorney General and several other legal advisers to Parliament said there was not a problem, but the High Court has the final say.

With Barnaby, he was stood down from Deputy PM and his seat in Parliament, he has to go back to his electorate and stand in a By-Election to re-qualify as an elected Member.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:26:08 AM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Another one yesterday, from the Liberal Party, has an English father.

This is starting to be like 'Blue Hills', will it ever end, sack the lot of them and start again.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, November 26, 2017 9:43:14 PM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
We have lost 10 sitting members of Federal Parliament to potential Dual Citizenship, most are being referred to the High Court for a ruling.

The parliamentarians have all stood down waiting either a court ruling or to have a by-election to attempt to re win their seat.
Kampong
Posted: Monday, November 27, 2017 12:49:40 PM
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There are countries (Syria is one) where the citizens cannot really rescind their citizenship.

There has been cases of young men visiting their relatives, and suddenly getting drafted in the army because the Syrian law claim they are Syrian, as they had a Syrian father.

(I am not from Syria, but it was a friend of mine who told me of the issue)
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:26:43 PM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Yes, Kampong some citizenship has gone unknown by our politicians for generations, but when researched they 'could' have claimed citizenship even though they did not know.

Some very interesting stories have been raised and quite funny ones only because I am not involved, half of current day Australians have a parent born overseas.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 8:27:10 AM

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I was just trying to make an argument for the birth country being more important than capabilities and experience, but failed. I think our country would be in much better shape right now if we had more relaxed laws regarding who could run for President or for federal office. We have not been able to elect the best person available to lead the Executive Branch of the US and have paid a very dear price for it.

Edit: From the opening post, one thing I think the court got right is that ignorance is no defense. Especially if you are going to run for any kind of public office.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:56:22 PM
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Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:35:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,110
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Your right Progpen, ignorance is no excuse, it is certainly that way with the Australian Tax Office, there is o wiggle room at all.

The possible citizenship had to have been revoked before standing for Parliament and in some cases the paper work was 'in the mail' that also does not suffice.

Some people felt if they had not requested citizenship that would be OK, no so, it seems to go on indefinitely, even if they could not vote or buy land in another country.
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