|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 111
Points: 326
Location: Toronto
|
Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 351
Points: 987
Location: South Borneo
|
I believe in after life but. I don't believe in before life. My religion literatures say that God gives human embryo the soul at 4 month pregnancy. A soul with no knowledge yet.
I reckon that Hindu or Konghuchu or Buddhism believe in before life.
Every design has a designer
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
I have read that the pituitary gland is visible in the fetus at forty-nine days...however, I don't think the pituitary gland is the soul;though it may be the portal through which the soul enters (and I believe the opening through which the soul leaves the body). And perhaps, since it is there, the soul has already entered the human body before birth. Yet, there are those who believe the soul enters the body with the body's first breath.
I personally believe the soul is our consciousness. And since it is also said that it takes 49 days for the soul to reincarnate, it must mean that the soul re-enters the body on the forty-ninth day as well. I wonder if this is because it takes this long for the physical body to form the pituitary gland.
I think it is interesting that in the study of numerology that 4+9=13, and 1+3=4, the number for creativity and new beginnings. It is said that the number 13 is a mystical or holy--or sacred number. I think this is the reason why I have always liked the number 13. I think it is a number that has been misunderstood because of its association with death and the souls departure, and thus the fear and superstition associated with it.
One of the reasons why I believe that this is actually what happens at death, is because I had a revelation about three or four years ago one night, while lying in bed in which I experienced my pituitary gland opening and my soul "standing" at its opening "looking out" into a "expanding space" or "different dimension" in which I felt a kind of "drawing" or magnetic kind of pulling toward it, and I realized this is how the soul leaves the body. I only recently read that there are religions that believe this as well. I also believe that the moment of death is a blissful, euphoric feeling of joy.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/3/2009
Posts: 770
Points: 2,064
Location: Canada
|
I doubt I have a soul. In spite of that death will be a relief from what surrounds me.
Brain-washing starts in the cradle. - Arthur Koestler
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 351
Points: 987
Location: South Borneo
|
Oh sorry I think I mean foetus, not embryo.
I re-check the literature and find out numbers 40 (or 42) + 40 + 40 days (4 months). God creates human in 3 phases. According to the literature, some scholars believes that soul enter the human body in the last 40 (4 months) and the others believe that soul has entered human body in 42 day pregnancy.
Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life.
Every design has a designer
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,005
Points: 1,912
Location: United Kingdom
|
But Blooper if as you say you believe in afterlife then by definition you believe in ‘before life’ or to put it more correctly previous existence.
George V you say: ‘I doubt I have a soul. In spite of that death will be a relief from what surrounds me.’
If that is how you really feel then why do you not get on and take that relief? I think the fact you continue to hold onto life shows you value it.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
To bloooper:
I was wondering what you mean by "Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life."
If you mean that the soul is not newly created when it enters the body, I think this as well. Are you referring to re-incarnation?
(I like your baby picture:))
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 1,105
Points: 3,057
Location: Japan
|
But world population has been increasing (decreasing in Japan though), new souls must be created; and if population had been decreasing, there must have been a lot of souls that had lost their way.
I'm agnostic but I can't imagine nothingness and tend to believe there must be something after death.(wishful thinking)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 351
Points: 987
Location: South Borneo
|
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:To bloooper:
I was wondering what you mean by "Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life."
If you mean that the soul is not newly created when it enters the body, I think this as well. Are you referring to re-incarnation?
(I like your baby picture:)) Well, actually I found nothing in the literature except that God gives soul to the foetus in 42 or 120 days. *Thank you, that's 2 year old me, inspired by JJ's.
Every design has a designer
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
To almostafreebird:
That is a curious phenomenon. I have wondered about that too.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
To Blooper:
I haven't seen JJ's, but would love to see it. Yours is truly a really good one. I enjoy looking at baby pictures after a person has become an adult.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/3/2009
Posts: 770
Points: 2,064
Location: Canada
|
perci - thank you for the prompt.
Brain-washing starts in the cradle. - Arthur Koestler
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,005
Points: 1,912
Location: United Kingdom
|
GeorgeV it was not a prompt just it was a reminder that life is good depsite its problems.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 710
Points: 2,110
Location: somewhere out there
|
Check this out: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Beforelife
You can do anything, but not everything. —David Allen
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 5,465
Points: 15,893
Location: United Kingdom
|
and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect.
"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,930
Points: 59,799
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:To Blooper:
I haven't seen JJ's, but would love to see it. Yours is truly a really good one. I enjoy looking at baby pictures after a person has become an adult. Are you sure you haven't seen my avatar?
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
To JJ:
I thought your avatar might have been your sister, or some other family member. Is it you? Whoever it is off, it is another great picture!:)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/10/2009
Posts: 102
Points: 295
Location: North Finland.
|
Hi Teluu. I think there is the same peace and silence before and after! Nothingness.
Praise a child once a day, let alone your spouse. (and see what happens)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,930
Points: 59,799
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:To JJ:
I thought your avatar might have been your sister, or some other family member. Is it you? Whoever it is off, it is another great picture!:) JJ two years old. You can find it bigger in Games section http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst11884_Cute-Kids.aspx
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/11/2009
Posts: 941
Points: 2,924
|
Teluu wrote:Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life? Hi Teluu, my understanding is that whilst knowledge of everything including our conception, birth, life, and death is pre-existent, only God has that knowledge. It is in this life that we are free to prepare for the next one. Psalm 139 speaks to this subject here Quote:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 1,105
Points: 3,057
Location: Japan
|
So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.
It's OK, I go to hell.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
|
To JJ:
I can see from the enlarged photo that the picture doesn't seem so much to be that of a little girl. When looking at the picture the size of an avatar, the details are not as clear. The "longish" baby hair made me think it was a picture of your sister for some reason. :)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/11/2009
Posts: 941
Points: 2,924
|
almostfreebird wrote:
So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.
It's OK, I go to hell.
How did you work that out from what I posted, almostfreebird? The question is whether the human soul is pre-existant. Biblical Scripture teaches that God has foreknowledge of every detail of our existence before we begin our journey in this life, but that does not mean he has predetermined everything. He just knows about it before it happens. If a signpost tells me a certain road leads to Rome and I take that road then I am predestined to arrive at Rome. Likewise if I am reliably informed that the only Way for me get to heaven is by my freewill choice to turn away from all that is sinful and my freewill choice to accept Christ as my personal Saviour then by following that Way I am predestined to arrive in heaven. God in His great wisdom has predestined that unrepentant sinners who reject the free gift of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, will go to hell but He hasn't forced them to fulfill that requirement. It is always their choice.
Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 1,105
Points: 3,057
Location: Japan
|
Hello Dreamy, I don't know much about Bible, I read about ten pages and gave up.
I'm not a Christian, though I got baptized when I was in college because one of my classmates, who was a son of priest I think, urged me to do it, I never was comfortable being in their community so I ended up quitting getting along wit him, he happened to be a New Zealander who was born in Japan.
So I can't augue using Biblical thing, but I can quote Philip K. Dick:
Barefoot conducts his seminars on his houseboat in Sausalito. It costs a hundred dollars to find out why we are on this Earth. You also get a sandwich, but I wasn't hungry that day. John Lennon had just been killed and I think I know why we are on this Earth; it's to find out that what you love the most will be taken away from you, probably due to an error in high places rather than by design.
"Everything is true", he said. "Everything anybody has ever thought"
Even if all life on our planet is destroyed, there must be other life somewhere which we know nothing of. It is impossible that ours is the only world; there must be world after world unseen by us, in some region or dimension that we simply do not perceive. Even though I can't prove that, even though it isn't logical - I believe it.
|
|
Rank: Newbie
Joined: 9/20/2011
Posts: 2
Points: 6
Location: USA, TX
|
well off course i do believe
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 5,465
Points: 15,893
Location: United Kingdom
|
almostfreebird wrote:
So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.
It's OK, I go to hell.
Bring a chess set and I'll give you a game
"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 12/15/2009
Posts: 207
Points: 630
Location: United States
|
pedro wrote:and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect. This is kind of rude and insensitive. It surprised me a little, coming from you. Anyway, the Mormons certainly do believe in a "before life." They call it the preexistence. The belief is that God sent us here to learn and grow, the way a parent sends his/her children to school for the same purpose. For what it's worth, William Wordsworth apparently thought about the same idea; it is discussed in his poem "Ode: Intimations of Immortality." If you read the letters of John Keats to his brother, you will see that the idea of earth life as a "school" of sorts was also conceived and pretty well fleshed out by Mr. Keats, as well. I don't think the idea is prima facie ludicrous.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/7/2011
Posts: 163
Points: 346
Location: United States, VA
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 1,105
Points: 3,057
Location: Japan
|
No. I never hit those spammer's links.
Never get you paid, Spammers.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 5,465
Points: 15,893
Location: United Kingdom
|
kingfisher wrote:pedro wrote:and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect. This is kind of rude and insensitive. It surprised me a little, coming from you. Anyway, the Mormons certainly do believe in a "before life." They call it the preexistence. The belief is that God sent us here to learn and grow, the way a parent sends his/her children to school for the same purpose. For what it's worth, William Wordsworth apparently thought about the same idea; it is discussed in his poem "Ode: Intimations of Immortality." If you read the letters of John Keats to his brother, you will see that the idea of earth life as a "school" of sorts was also conceived and pretty well fleshed out by Mr. Keats, as well. I don't think the idea is prima facie ludicrous. It was not designed totally to offend (although I do wish people would lighten up when it comes to religion). LSD experiences are quite strongly linked to death/near death experiences (I couldn't find the link I wanted but there are a couple of others to give the gist) http://www.neardeathdialogues.com/Dialogues/nde1/lsdnde.htmlhttp://www.near-death.com/experiences/lsd02.htmlhttp://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers04.htmlI have the same difficulties with pre-existence as with post. A child comes into the world, whilst not exactly a 'tabla rasa', without very much evidence of having accumulated any wisdom from a previous incarnation. Nowadays, in affluent countries at any rate, there is a strong likelihood that if you do get to receive the Queen's telegram you will have already lost most of the thinking and communicating skills that define you as a human being. Even in my indoctrinated days in a Roman Catholic school, priests and teachers had difficulty explaining which particular 'you' it is that is summoned from the grave raptured into eternal bliss. I rejected my 'faith' quite early in life and have never been remotely convinced by any arguments for it since. nb: When a thread on the forum turns into a dialogue between fellow converts (sometimes a monologue) you will usually note my absence.
"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,005
Points: 1,912
Location: United Kingdom
|
No I do not believe in before life and the implication behind it of reincarnation. Of what value is a pre-existence to the life now, if no knowledge of it exists? How can one learn from mistakes? What is the point of coming back as say a cockroach... a cow... a worm or even another human?
Does the cockroach set about learning from past mistakes from his time as a human? What relevance is the human experience to the life of the cockroach? What is the purpose of a cycle of life that is supposed to end in nothingness as the untimate achievement?
I think the idea of pre-existence is about as plausible as that of life springing from nothing... self-generation or abiogenesis.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 757
Points: 2,270
Location: United States
|
I agree with Pedro and Perci.
Talk about a pre or post life has never made much sense to me except as a way to assuage the fear of being completely cut off from the life we have known. Self-awareness compels us to want an ongoing existence, so we create one that was not only here before we were aware, but also afterward.
A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 973
Points: 2,765
Location: United Kingdom
|
pedro wrote:almostfreebird wrote:
So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.
It's OK, I go to hell.
Bring a chess set and I'll give you a game But you can't take your Bishops to Hell so it will be a funny old game of chess. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 973
Points: 2,765
Location: United Kingdom
|
Dreamy says '...If a signpost tells me a certain road leads to Rome and I take that road then I am predestined to arrive at Rome...'
Surely you are predestined only to take that road. You might not reach Rome. I look at it this way - if I am predestined to go to Rome I will take the road that leads me there and I will definitely reach Rome.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 973
Points: 2,765
Location: United Kingdom
|
Teluu wrote:Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life? I believe that our soul is part of our life as soon as we are conceived. It does not exist before that. At some time before birth our soul will begin to develop in reaction to our mother's experiences, e.g. anxiety, trauma. In life our soul develops in reaction to our environment and our nature and continues to grow so that it becomes the 'real' us - body, mind and spirit. When we die the body and mind are gone but the spirit lives on. Where it lives - forever - depends upon the decisions we make before we die.
|
|
|
Guest |