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philips daughter
Posted: Sunday, October 8, 2017 1:50:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/2017
Posts: 191
Neurons: 43,418
I am American I am not insensitive to this but just numb. It doesn’t matter how many people have died senselessly. Nothing can be done. It is surreal to me. All the good work progressives and socialist have done for forty years in this country are being erased in eight months. I feel as if my whole life’s work sucked away. God help us. The hatred is for people like me is menacing. If I see 3 white boys walking down the streets I think trouble. They own all the guns, all the courts and all the law. They are willing to kill us all and let God sort ‘em out. I’ve heard while people say that. So unless you are writing to protest these military weapons in the hands of egomaniacs it is you who are insensitive. Do you ever think about how the people of color in Charlott feel when those white supremacist come march in their town?
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:51:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Buzzito, Problem is - I care too much or I'd just be ignoring it. (Edited - and I'm angry that it keeps happening, everybody talks and prays, and nothing is done.) You are deep in denial if you don't see that with a mass shooting nearly every day of the year that it is business as usual. I actually overheard the “ho hum” comment and thought it described the frequency perfectly. If you and Listening want to spin and apply it to the death and destruction when it was not my intention, that's your problem, not mine. It says more about you than it does about me.

If the cost of lives doesn't sway your second amendment ideology, maybe if you see how it affects your pocketbook that will?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-violence-costs-america-more-than-229-billion-every-year-2015-4

If you think I have finally become inured to the violent society south of us, you are probably correct. This last one put me over the edge. I'm not the only one who has become inured. Canadians are increasingly aware that they have lost a trusted ally and friend for many reasons recently.

Nor are Canadians alone in the world with the following points of view.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2017/10/07/your-letters-when-will-america-finally-say-enough.html

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:53:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Excerpts and letters from above link - 'Nuff said by me.

“I watched a clip of Speaker Paul Ryan commenting on the mass murder in Las Vegas. This is the same Paul Ryan who blocked Democratic representatives from forming a select committee on gun violence. He said, “We cannot let the actions of a single individual define us as a country. This is not who we are.”
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. It is who you are. You’re the country where, over and over, people are killed and wounded en masse by persons wielding easily accessible firearms, usually semi-automatic weapons with no purpose other than to kill people, and continue to do nothing about it.
That’s what the rest of the world thinks of first when it thinks of the United States. You should be ashamed.”

“The second amendment is so deeply weaved into Americans’ collective psyche, they can’t see past the bubble that has become their nightmarish prison. The vast majority of them aren’t aware that other Western nations don’t go to bed at night clutching a weapon.
I particularly resent their lax gun laws and easy access when they get smuggled into my country, Canada. Instead of limiting gun access or the type of weapons purchased, they have loosened pesky restrictions. Some states even allow open carry.
For these reasons, I no longer want to vacation in the U.S. I have chosen to stay in Canada and see our own beautiful and sensible country.”

“The gun lobby’s familiar refrain that guns don’t kill people, people kill people is a transparent sophistry. Only with guns can a single person kill a large number of people. And only with an automatic rifle can anyone kill 59 and injure 527 people from 32nd-floor of a hotel.”

“And it’s important to factor in the part played by the availability of automatic weapons.
Why is it that so many victims and bystanders are consoled with the false idea that more prayers and more guns will save them from a repeat event?”


Edited - forgot to add the links to the articles to which the Letters were responding.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/10/03/on-gun-control-donald-trump-has-lost-his-marbles-dimanno.html

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/10/02/americas-gun-obsession-is-killing-them-dimanno.html



The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
almo 1
Posted: Sunday, October 8, 2017 6:54:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/2016
Posts: 1,253
Neurons: 5,715
Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
Hope123 wrote:

ABC News - Officials give a portrait of a person that they say has a severe mental illness as this:

The portrait of Paddock ... might have been financially successful, he had real difficulty interacting with people. He is described as standoff-ish, disconnected, a man who had difficulty establishing and maintaining meaningful relationships.”

Does this remind you of anyone else who is holding, not just a few thousand people, but the whole world hostage? It's a rhetorical question.







*kind of bump




Kim Jong Un




almo 1
Posted: Sunday, October 8, 2017 6:56:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/2016
Posts: 1,253
Neurons: 5,715
Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
Buzzito wrote:
Just a ho hum day? What kind of sick person are you? I am not seeing a label but an insensitive person. Regardless of intention, your comment was uncalled for.



Hope123 wrote:
As much as we feel sorry for the families involved (at least one young Canadian man from B.C. was killed) it really is just a ho hum day for the US and nothing will be done because of the theory that carrying a gun will protect you and the NRA's legal lobbying with money of lawmakers.

On average, there is more than one mass shooting for each day in America.

In 2015 there were 355 mass shootings in 333 days. As well, some shootings were unreported to the database. Mass on this database is 4 or more shot - not necessarily murdered.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts



Just because early reports say this is one more death than the recent Orlando shooting of 49 lives lost, and over 400 wounded, the number of casualties is the only thing that makes it unique in the USA.

Developed countries with more guns also have more gun deaths and more violence overall because of easy access to a weapon that is easy to use from a distance and has a large satisfaction response of killing many. People do kill, but they couldn't do it so easily if the weapon was not so easily obtained and so convenient to use.

A permit is not needed to buy a gun in Nevada.

Although early news is often not correct, it should also be noted that the news so far is that the shooter was an affluent American white citizen again and not the dreaded immigrant or refugee.

Strangely enough, gun company stocks rose on the markets after the shooting. I'm sure a gun would have helped today. Sarcasm intended.




bump
Lotje1000
Posted: Monday, October 9, 2017 2:33:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 935
Neurons: 446,653
Location: Gent, Flanders, Belgium
That's already been responded to, Almo. No need to bump it.
Buzzito
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:23:22 AM

Rank: Member

Joined: 5/28/2016
Posts: 84
Neurons: 491,534
Location: Bensalem, Pennsylvania, United States
Hope123 wrote:
Buzzito, Problem is - I care too much or I'd just be ignoring it. (Edited - and I'm angry that it keeps happening, everybody talks and prays, and nothing is done.) You are deep in denial if you don't see that with a mass shooting nearly every day of the year that it is business as usual. I actually overheard the “ho hum” comment and thought it described the frequency perfectly. If you and Listening want to spin and apply it to the death and destruction when it was not my intention, that's your problem, not mine. It says more about you than it does about me.

If the cost of lives doesn't sway your second amendment ideology, maybe if you see how it affects your pocketbook that will?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-violence-costs-america-more-than-229-billion-every-year-2015-4

If you think I have finally become inured to the violent society south of us, you are probably correct. This last one put me over the edge. I'm not the only one who has become inured. Canadians are increasingly aware that they have lost a trusted ally and friend for many reasons recently.

Nor are Canadians alone in the world with the following points of view.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2017/10/07/your-letters-when-will-america-finally-say-enough.html


Hope, the problem which is not mine, is clearly your comment as it stands and speaks for itself. No need to spin. The mindset I take issue with is that there are people out there that think the USA is somehow different from the rest of the world. The FACT is, humans are a violent animal and regardless of access to the type of weapon, humans react with violence. We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc. As an American, I find it particularly intrusive that you involve yourself so regularly with our laws.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:15:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Buzzito wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Buzzito, Problem is - I care too much or I'd just be ignoring it. (Edited - and I'm angry that it keeps happening, everybody talks and prays, and nothing is done.) You are deep in denial if you don't see that with a mass shooting nearly every day of the year that it is business as usual. I actually overheard the “ho hum” comment and thought it described the frequency perfectly. If you and Listening want to spin and apply it to the death and destruction when it was not my intention, that's your problem, not mine. It says more about you than it does about me.

If the cost of lives doesn't sway your second amendment ideology, maybe if you see how it affects your pocketbook that will?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-violence-costs-america-more-than-229-billion-every-year-2015-4

If you think I have finally become inured to the violent society south of us, you are probably correct. This last one put me over the edge. I'm not the only one who has become inured. Canadians are increasingly aware that they have lost a trusted ally and friend for many reasons recently.

Nor are Canadians alone in the world with the following points of view.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2017/10/07/your-letters-when-will-america-finally-say-enough.html


Hope, the problem which is not mine, is clearly your comment as it stands and speaks for itself. No need to spin. The mindset I take issue with is that there are people out there that think the USA is somehow different from the rest of the world. The FACT is, humans are a violent animal and regardless of access to the type of weapon, humans react with violence. We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc. As an American, I find it particularly intrusive that you involve yourself so regularly with our laws.


Buzzito,

So I was too honest for you with my comment (which I stand by) even when I started it with this and I reiterated sympathy further in another post! "As much as we feel sorry for the families involved (at least one young Canadian man from B.C. was killed)"...

In fact there were several Canadians killed and others are in huge debt who were wounded. One 21 year-old lost his entire colon, has bullet fragments in his arm and a million dollar medical bill because he thought for one night in the US he didn't need travel insurance. He was just going to a concert. What a shame ALL those people and families of whatever nationality with similar or worse stories have to deal with this all the rest of their young lives.

What I said was - I have sympathy but this happens every day and nothing will be done. What was not ho hum to you? The NRA is now opposing banning the modifier so nothing will likely be done this time when people thought surely after Sandy Hook and 20 children the opposition would relent.

You'd have to tell me what was not ho hum. Or was it that you thought it implied a criticism that anti gun control advocates don't care?

When what your country does profoundly affects mine, in all areas and not just gun control, I have every right to voice my opinion, which is now complete. And even if it didn't affect my country, your first amendment is just as important, maybe more so, than the second. There are many Americans, a majority even, some even on TFD, who agree with me and others from around the world who voice opinions about the US here.

You have every right to say what you want to show opposition. And any time you want to give constructive criticism to Canada, I'd likely join in.

The NRA is business making money and wrapping guns in patriotism/2nd amendment a few years ago was brilliant marketing.

I certainly agree with and would add to this part of your comment:

"We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc"



The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Buzzito
Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 12:49:02 PM

Rank: Member

Joined: 5/28/2016
Posts: 84
Neurons: 491,534
Location: Bensalem, Pennsylvania, United States
Hope123 wrote:
Buzzito wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Buzzito, Problem is - I care too much or I'd just be ignoring it. (Edited - and I'm angry that it keeps happening, everybody talks and prays, and nothing is done.) You are deep in denial if you don't see that with a mass shooting nearly every day of the year that it is business as usual. I actually overheard the “ho hum” comment and thought it described the frequency perfectly. If you and Listening want to spin and apply it to the death and destruction when it was not my intention, that's your problem, not mine. It says more about you than it does about me.

If the cost of lives doesn't sway your second amendment ideology, maybe if you see how it affects your pocketbook that will?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-violence-costs-america-more-than-229-billion-every-year-2015-4

If you think I have finally become inured to the violent society south of us, you are probably correct. This last one put me over the edge. I'm not the only one who has become inured. Canadians are increasingly aware that they have lost a trusted ally and friend for many reasons recently.

Nor are Canadians alone in the world with the following points of view.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2017/10/07/your-letters-when-will-america-finally-say-enough.html


Hope, the problem which is not mine, is clearly your comment as it stands and speaks for itself. No need to spin. The mindset I take issue with is that there are people out there that think the USA is somehow different from the rest of the world. The FACT is, humans are a violent animal and regardless of access to the type of weapon, humans react with violence. We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc. As an American, I find it particularly intrusive that you involve yourself so regularly with our laws.


Buzzito,

So I was too honest for you with my comment (which I stand by) even when I started it with this and I reiterated sympathy further in another post! "As much as we feel sorry for the families involved (at least one young Canadian man from B.C. was killed)"...

In fact there were several Canadians killed and others are in huge debt who were wounded. One 21 year-old lost his entire colon, has bullet fragments in his arm and a million dollar medical bill because he thought for one night in the US he didn't need travel insurance. He was just going to a concert. What a shame ALL those people and families of whatever nationality with similar or worse stories have to deal with this all the rest of their young lives.

What I said was - I have sympathy but this happens every day and nothing will be done. What was not ho hum to you? The NRA is now opposing banning the modifier so nothing will likely be done this time when people thought surely after Sandy Hook and 20 children the opposition would relent.

You'd have to tell me what was not ho hum. Or was it that you thought it implied a criticism that anti gun control advocates don't care?

When what your country does profoundly affects mine, in all areas and not just gun control, I have every right to voice my opinion, which is now complete. And even if it didn't affect my country, your first amendment is just as important, maybe more so, than the second. There are many Americans, a majority even, some even on TFD, who agree with me and others from around the world who voice opinions about the US here.

You have every right to say what you want to show opposition. And any time you want to give constructive criticism to Canada, I'd likely join in.

The NRA is business making money and wrapping guns in patriotism/2nd amendment a few years ago was brilliant marketing.

I certainly agree with and would add to this part of your comment:

"We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc"





Hope123,

In any post regarding loss of life, "ho hum" not only appears to me to be callous, but I read at least one other voice the same criticism. I don't read every post here so I don't know what you said at a later point. It is out there so be it as it may. It is my feeling and far from a judgement.

The leaning here is apparently liberal and a shame. I come on to TFD for the value I find in much else beside the political discourse and generally stick to that. Talking doesn't cook the rice you know.

At least we agree on something regarding violence as you mentioned.

I only wish there were more attempts to find common ground like this and that then, action is taken.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:43:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Buzzito, when you can tell me that this massacre has changed anything in your country's gun laws, I will take back the "ho hum" referring to the wearying frequency and the fact it will not change a thing. The news cycle has already moved on. Did either you or Listening join the increasing bipartisan numbers who are pressuring the elected officials to make changes that might stop even just one of these incidents to show it wasn't just ho hum to you?

I can only be responsible for what I wrote, and not how you and Listening understand it. I did not say the loss of life is ho hum. I said "we feel sorry for the families" in the same sentence. You did not have to read other posts in the thread where that sentiment was reiterated, although usually people do read a whole thread before commenting. I am not able to explain what I meant any better than that so over and out.

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 6:53:34 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 14,079
Neurons: 43,425
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Buzzito,

" The mindset I take issue with is that there are people out there that think the USA is somehow different from the rest of the world."

I'm curious: - which other countries have you lived in, or studied? Were they First World countries? Because yes, there are countries where violence is normalised, absolutely no argument there.

However, America is, indeed, unlike any other first world country in terms of violence.

There is no other country in the Developed world where citizens are allowed to wander around carrying killing machines on their bodies. Not even the Police carry guns in many places.

There is no other developed country in the world where Universities tacitly "teach" violence by encouraging students to carry weapons; or which allow Police to come onto Campus and shoot students.

There is no other developed country where advertisements selling guns are aimed at children. Or where weapons designed to kill are specifically designed for Minors.

There is no other developed country where mass shootings take place on a daily basis.

There is no other developed country where a President could ever stand in public and advise his Police Force not to treat an innocent person (as are all suspects until proven guilty)with respect, but to be rougher with them.

In no other developed country do schools not only celebrate and commemorate the violence of the past; but lionise and distort the stories of genocide, murder and subjugation as part of their modern culture.

There is no other developed country in the world which feels that violence based on skin colour is part of the natural order of things.

There is no other developed country where a grown, overweight cop can attack and bring down an underage girl who posed no physical threat, and millions of viewers of the incident can calmly watch such scenes and accept them as "due" force.

There is no other developed country where "freedom of speech" protects the publication, recording, televising and utterance of violent speech, incitement to hate, and calls to violence, lies and distortion.

There is no other country in the world where the reason given for the Right to carry arms is in order to defend a person from their own Democratic, Government.

Of greater concern or importance than you being annoyed, is the fact that there are millions of Americans who, from the depths of their (deliberately fostered) ignorance about how the world works, assume that every other developed nation in the world shares American cultural, societal, educational, religious, political, and violent ways of life. And who honestly believe that the world takes their cues from the USA; and regards their way of life with admiration and a desire to emulate.

"Important" because it is these views - abhorred by the rest of the developed world - which could lead to the destruction of the planet.
Y111
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 7:56:06 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 193
Neurons: 939
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Romany wrote:

"Important" because it is these views - abhorred by the rest of the developed world - which could lead to the destruction of the planet.

Why is the US "the leader of the free world", then? Why doesn't that free world choose a better country to be its leader?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 8:12:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,132
Neurons: 167,179
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Y111 wrote:
Why is the US "the leader of the free world", then? Why doesn't that free world choose a better country to be its leader?

The US is not the leader of the free world.

For a start, no country considers the US to be its leader.

Secondly the US seems to be hardly part of the free world any more - it is virtually a police state.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
almo 1
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 8:35:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/2016
Posts: 1,253
Neurons: 5,715
Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
Romany wrote:

Xap -

Unfortunately, though this news should unite us in shock; this can only turn into a contentious discussion. Which is why it is being avoided. Our sorrow for these shattered lives, I am sure, unites us all.








And you begin ranting with a propagandic catchphrase
as always as if you have templates.


It is "TLDR", indeed.



TheParser
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:16:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 4,669
Neurons: 22,062
almo 1 wrote:
R wrote:

Xap -

Unfortunately, though this news should unite us in shock; this can only turn into a contentious discussion. Which is why it is being avoided. Our sorrow for these shattered lives, I am sure, unites us all.








And you begin ranting with a propagandic catchphrase
as always as if you have templates.


It is "TLDR", indeed.








Hear! Hear!
philips daughter
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:21:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/2017
Posts: 191
Neurons: 43,418
Maybe the reason the same sentiments are because the same tragedy keeps happening. What more can be said? What reasoned language should we use? Or should we just shrug it off? It’s just “evil” is the argument trump uses. That means there’s nothing we can do. It’s not crime or we could stop it. That man was a mentally ill product of this twisted culture. And we let him buy enough guns and ammunition to be a gun store.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:33:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Well said, Romany.

However, we are wasting our time when what we say is written off as propaganda as if we have an agenda past saving lives and stopping nuclear wars.

As for the TLDR criticism - it might take a few minutes for that poster to actually read something of substance that is longer than 180 characters. It is well known in teaching circles that since the advent of TV, the attention span of students has gradually become shorter and shorter till now it is reduced pretty much to what will go on a couple of tweets or the posts of pictures with a link referring to another thread. (And two words are glommed onto out of context to explain a whole post.)

Nowadays we want everything fast, easy, and yesterday.

Crossed posted with Philip's Daughter and she said it better.




The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:34:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Y111 wrote:
Why is the US "the leader of the free world", then? Why doesn't that free world choose a better country to be its leader?

The US is not the leader of the free world.

For a start, no country considers the US to be its leader.

Secondly the US seems to be hardly part of the free world any more - it is virtually a police state.


Exactly, Drago. And it is scary.

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
Y111
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 10:05:38 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 193
Neurons: 939
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Y111 wrote:
Why is the US "the leader of the free world", then? Why doesn't that free world choose a better country to be its leader?

The US is not the leader of the free world.

For a start, no country considers the US to be its leader.

Secondly the US seems to be hardly part of the free world any more - it is virtually a police state.

I have read that claim somewhere in this forum. Unfortunately, I don't remember who wrote it. From the way it was said, I thought it was a common opinion.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 10:16:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,132
Neurons: 167,179
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Y111 wrote:
I have read that claim somewhere in this forum. Unfortunately, I don't remember who wrote it. From the way it was said, I thought it was a common opinion.

It is a "common opinion" amongst a certain set of the United States citizens.

It's similar to the "The USA is the Greatest country" - it's not true.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
TheParser
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 10:24:38 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 4,669
Neurons: 22,062
Y111 wrote:

Why is the US "the leader of the free world?



Simple, really!

Because the United States of America is the only country in the West that has the military might to deal with "certain countries."

The United States provided the winning edge in World War I.

The United States provided the winning edge in World War II.

Today, NATO is counting on the United States to save Europe if it is invaded by a "certain nation."

Today, many Asian countries are counting on the United States to save them if they are invaded by a "certain nation."

And, of course, no nation would dare mess with our northern little brother or our southern little brother, for they are protected by their Big Brother.

The whole world is obsessed with the United States, for -- like it or not -- it is the leader -- at least for the time being.


Romany
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 11:25:14 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 14,079
Neurons: 43,425
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Edited to add:
Almo wrote - in surprisingly fluent and non-ambiguous English - "And you begin ranting with a propagandic catchphrase..".

As this is a language Forum and as there are learner's present, it should be pointed out that the meaning of "to rant" is to "speak or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way."

Strictly speaking, it cannot be applied to the written word. However, the way we "shout" (and which is explained and forbidden in Forum Rules) is to

Write in all caps; use large fonts; colour the message in red; overuse exclamation marks.

It has been done by some posters. I am not one of them.

Neither did I, anywhere, express anger. I did not use subjective language. I merely made a number of statements of fact. I neither said I agreed or disagreed. Nor did I suggest to anyone else that they should agree or disagree.

There is not a single "catchphrase" anywhere in my post.

A "catchphrase" is:- "A group of words, often originating in popular culture, that is spontaneously popularised after widespread repeated use." Nowhere in the post does any such group of words exist.

The word "propagandised" as an adjective to describe "catchphrase" is thus of no relevance.

A poster made a statement which showed he had a misapprehension as to cultural/societal mores in other countries. I pointed to the facts which supported the reasons for this being a misapprehension.

That's why we join Forums - we listen, we learn, we disagree. It's the PURPOSE of a forum. Disagreement exists in thought between any two people in the world - it remains disagreement in an abstract, external way. Learning how to speak English includes learning the rules which cover discourse. And this applies to both native and non-native speakers.

It's not an expression of hostility towards the other person: if it were no marriage would last more than a few days, tops!






almo 1
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 11:43:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/2016
Posts: 1,253
Neurons: 5,715
Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 11:53:47 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 14,079
Neurons: 43,425
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Not one of the Parsar's statement's is based on fact.

He has retained his view of the role that the United States played in both World Wars despite being supplied with many sources of factual information.Including the viewpoints of all the other nations that took part.

His views seem mainly to derive from old Hollywood propaganda films.

Neither does he understand that the phrase "Leader of the Free World" is only used *outside* of the USA with irony. Currently it's used with sarcasm.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:44:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,132
Neurons: 167,179
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
almo 1 wrote:


Yes.


WHY do you keep posting totally non-sequitur links to other non-related topics?
Are you totally unable to connect one thought to a related one?


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 5:28:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 7,818
Neurons: 45,127
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Drago, just as he stalked us as Almostfreebird, he's still more subtly (check the discussion on the link) after Romany for some reason. Me too.

Guess he likes us. Whistle

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. Anon
tunaafi
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 6:04:54 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 4,453
Neurons: 53,503
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
TheParser wrote:
Because the United States of America is the only country in the West that has the military might to deal with "certain countries."


The USA is the only country in the history of NATO to have called upon Article 5 to demand that other members support one country (the USA) . Other memnbers did indeed support the USA. Since that time, Trump has thrown doubts on his commitment to NATO

Quote:
The United States provided the winning edge in World War I.


Three years after the conflict started.

Quote:
The United States provided the winning edge in World War II.


Only after (in Asia) Japan had attacked American ships at Pearl Harbour and after (in Europe) Hitler had declared war on the USA.

Quote:
Today, NATO is counting on the United States to save Europe if it is invaded by a "certain nation."


Actually, in the unlikely event of western/central Europe being invaded by Russia (if that's the country you are referring to when you mention "a certain nation" (you are probably not thinking of Japan, though you could be)), European nations are rapidly coming round to the idea that they cannot rely on the USA to stand by its commitments.

Quote:
Today, many Asian countries are counting on the United States to save them if they are invaded by a "certain nation."


Which countries are you talking about? Is Venezuela about to invade Laos and Sri Lanka?



Quote:
The whole world is obsessed with the United States, for -- like it or not -- it is the leader -- at least for the time being.


If there is one thing the USA is not at present, it is being the leader of the free world.
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:20:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Sorry, I have been AWOL from TFD, and reading the latest posts gives me shivers.

Paddock's biography comes down on the side of nature considering his fathers record.

I know, every thing relates back to horses with me, but as a horse breeder I work on 80-90% of genetics comes from the mare and a fluctuating 20% from the stallion.

One thing is a given that bad traits are passed through from the stallion.

This is unfortunate for the studs that stand stallions in the mega money bracket, they should be concentrating on quality mares..
Lotje1000
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:06:00 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 935
Neurons: 446,653
Location: Gent, Flanders, Belgium
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

WHY do you keep posting totally non-sequitur links to other non-related topics?
Are you totally unable to connect one thought to a related one?


It looks like Almo has a personal vendetta against Romany, perhaps because he dislikes the colour of her hair and other aspects of her appearance?
Otherwise, I'm sure, he would have complained earlier about other "propagandic catchphrases" such as when another "GO TRUMP!" message gets posted without further explanation. Perhaps he doesn't dislike those because they're so similar to his own non-sequiturs?
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 4,669
Neurons: 22,062
Almo,


Don't forget that old quotation: "You can judge a man by his enemies."

You should consider it a badge of honor that certain individuals are criticizing you.

Please continue to do what you have been doing.

Your illustrations are informative and entertaining.

No doubt the relatively few people who read this forum are bored by the usual diet of rants that repeat the same old same old, and the posts loaded with links carefully selected to prove a certain point.

It's great to have some fresh blood in this forum.

The future of TFD "Politics" forum depends on members like you who are willing to post a variety of views, which -- of course -- infuriates the clique that think they are the sole guardians of the "truth."



Have a great day!


Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:12:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 29,132
Neurons: 167,179
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Parser!

I don't mind AlmostFreeBird's political views at all - it's the absolutely non-sequitur posts which I don't get - they don't make sense in the topic at all. What does hair colour and make-up have to do with terrorism?

As you say, many of his illustrations are funny and fitting - but so many are not . . .

PS - not exactly 'new blood' - he's been a member (with a couple of different names) for longer than I have I think - or at least almost as long.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:27:17 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 4,453
Neurons: 53,503
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
TheParser wrote:
You should consider it a badge of honor that certain individuals are criticizing you.
[...]
the usual diet of rants that repeat the same old same old, and the posts loaded with links carefully selected to prove a certain point.
[...]
the clique that think they are the sole guardians of the "truth."


I thought I would stick around this poisoned forum so that the string of half-truths, lies, smears and innuendo poured out by this malevolent old hypocrite could not go unchallenged by the truth, but I have to admit that he has finally defeated me. This is one of his less less obnoxious posts, but his readiness to continually dip into his apparently bottomless pit of slime have become too tedious for me to deal with.

As usual when I leave, I shall probably return one day, but it won't be for some time.
philips daughter
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:34:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/2017
Posts: 191
Neurons: 43,418
Tunaafi, don’t stay away too long. I understand why you feel that way and you encourage me. Here’s a funny (mo) definition I’ll put before the language lovers here; if women are hysterical is the male equivalent nadical?
Listening . . .
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 4:29:29 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 962
Neurons: 3,940
Hope123 wrote:
Buzzito, when you can tell me that this massacre has changed anything in your country's gun laws, I will take back the "ho hum" referring to the wearying frequency and the fact it will not change a thing. The news cycle has already moved on. Did either you or Listening join the increasing bipartisan numbers who are pressuring the elected officials to make changes that might stop even just one of these incidents to show it wasn't just ho hum to you?

I can only be responsible for what I wrote, and not how you and Listening understand it. I did not say the loss of life is ho hum. I said "we feel sorry for the families" in the same sentence. You did not have to read other posts in the thread where that sentiment was reiterated, although usually people do read a whole thread before commenting. I am not able to explain what I meant any better than that so over and out.
Emphasis added to your statement for clarity.



I have not. Why? Not as a result of a "ho hum" attitude but because (as so well stated by Mr. Zito) "We need to take a look at the causes of violence and deal with that. For example, there are violent movies, video games and the ever increasing impulsive behavior that seems to be predominant (instant gratification for example) in society. We need better access to mental health services and to teach our children to better deal with frustration/insult/bullying/impulse control issue etc etc."
philips daughter
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 7:13:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/2017
Posts: 191
Neurons: 43,418
Buzzito, I agree that children need education yet, trump is cutting funding. We need health care and that includes mental health but, Congress hasn’t passed funds for Children’s health. The prez is doing everything to destroy health care. But, that’s all really about “poor people,” am I right? This mad man in Las Vegas wasn’t poor or uneducated, so evil doesn’t reside in poverty or otherness?
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