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Women in Saudi Arabia can drive. Options
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:58:10 PM

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/26/saudi-arabias-king-issues-order-allowing-women-to-drive

Congratulations to the brave Saudi women who risked scorn, humiliation and jail in their struggle to gain a basic right.
Yarin
Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:33:52 PM
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Good, but a very small step.
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:23:29 PM

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'One step for man, one giant step for mankind'

Change to women for more up to date comment.

Who knows, maybe one day women will be flying aircrafts.
almo 1
Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:08:35 PM
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Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:11:27 PM

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Tovarish wrote:
'One step for man, one giant step for mankind'

Change to women for more up to date comment.

Who knows, maybe one day women will be flying aircrafts.


Good one, Tov.

Yes, Tuna, a big step for the Saudi women and congrats to those who worked hard for it. May the steps get larger and larger - and not just in Saudi Arabia.

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:28:31 AM

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Some times its hard to speak with my tongue so firmly in my cheek, my Aussie humor.

Thanks Hope, we Commonwealth Citizens ha ha.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:06:39 AM
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Yes, there's been much rejoicing here.

And I am still doing my "Wear White on Wednesdays" thing, ladies, to support the women in Iran who want to no longer be *forced* to wear hajib. Tov - you could get yourself a pair of white jeans for Wednesdays - then the next day you could wear brown in support of all Cockies!!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:42:17 AM

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Bessie Coleman - the first American woman to earn a flying license - but she had to go to France to get it, as she was not allowed one in the US.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 5:38:04 PM

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The news is not quite as good as it seemed initially. While there is no longer a legal ban on Saudi women driving, male relatives can still forbid them to leave the home alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/27/saudi-arabia-prince-mohammed-plays-biggest-card-yet
Yarin
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:17:00 PM
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She will drive het car inside her house.
Yarin
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:59:41 PM
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Tovarish, Romany, Hope123, Drag0nspeaker
You are for the right of Saudis women to drive a car. Are you for the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homeland, Palestine?
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:15:38 AM

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You did not address your question to me, Yarin. so I'll not answer.

I just wonder what the attitude of people to one situation has to do with their attitude to an unrelated one.
Yarin
Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:56:34 PM
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Tunafi wrote:
You did not address your question to me, Yarin. so I'll not answer.

I didn't adress the question to you because you are the only one in the Forum that was very clear about the Palestinian cause.
But now, please, I'm curious to know your opinion.


Tunafi
wrote;
I just wonder what the attitude of people to one situation has to do with their attitude to an unrelated one.


Both are retated because they belong to basic human rights. I can't understand anyone who defends human right would ignore one of the most important basic human rights.
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:56:24 PM

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The human Rights issues are so multi faceted, the rights of women are something Hope, Rom and I take personally because we are women and Drago supports this because he is a

fair thinker and a sophisticated man.

almo 1
Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:09:09 PM
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Yarin wrote:
Tunafi wrote:
You did not address your question to me, Yarin. so I'll not answer.

I didn't adress the question to you because you are the only one in the Forum that was very clear about the Palestinian cause.
But now, please, I'm curious to know your opinion.


Tunafi
wrote;
I just wonder what the attitude of people to one situation has to do with their attitude to an unrelated one.


Both are retated because they belong to basic human rights. I can't understand anyone who defends human right would ignore one of the most important basic human rights.







You did not address your question to me,too.


tunaafi
Posted: Friday, September 29, 2017 1:44:35 AM

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Yarin wrote:
Tunafi wrote:I just wonder what the attitude of people to one situation has to do with their attitude to an unrelated one.


Both are related because they belong to basic human rights. I can't understand anyone who defends human right would ignore one of the most important basic human rights.[/quote]

I, personally, am a strong supporter of the rights of Palestinians. I, personally, am also a strong supporter of women's rights throughout the world. I will not bore people by listing other causes I support.

While I hope that thinking people will support the causes I do, I do not expect that people who support some of them must necessarily support all, and certainly do not expect them to voice their support at all times.

This thread started as a congratulation to the women of Saudi Arabia for a small success in their struggle for equal rights in their country. I, (personally) did not think it helpful in this thread to expect people to express their views on the rights of Palestinians (or of the horrors of FGM, the oppression of various minority groups throughout the world, or indeed of anything else). I, personally, think that the raising of one injustice when another is being discussed can actually have a negative impact -'OK, you feel strongly about your cause, but don't try to draw attention away from my cause'.

I have (tediously) used the word 'personally' several times. I wish to stress that I speak only for myself.
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:22:35 PM

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Saw the Saudi ladies at the upmarket car show, you go girls, get the high range ones, especially in red, they go quicker.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2017 5:44:44 AM
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Yes - this started off celebrating the tremendous step forward that has been made for women's rights in Saudi.

But, since then, I think it's American women who also need our support: - instead of going forward they are being forced backward into the dark days where women's only value to society was as breeders.

Millions of women in other democratic countries who have fought just as hard as American women to equalise human rights across gender lines, watch in horror. First we watched as a confirmed misogynist, with current sexual assault cases against him, is declared the Leader of the Free World.

Now we see the results of putting a misogynist, woman-hating male in such a position. There's no surprise that a man who sees women as 2nd class citizens would do everything in his power to reduce women, LEGALLY, to that position. What is the biggest shock/horror around the world, is that so many citizens and Administrators obviously feel it's a good idea.

Women around the world now see America in a different light. First we watched as America doomed women in other countries by stopping programmes that helped women in other countries; and waited for the uproar. There was no uproar. Because those women were "over there" - somewhere outside the pale of their own country? Did people *honestly* think it would stop there?

So: abortion rights and contraceptive rights for women in America are being taken away. Thus women's participation in the work-force will be curtailed; millions of children across the country are now at risk of poverty and untold suffering; the economy will suffer, more and more women and children will become homeless; male wage earners will face supporting families on single wages...and thousands and thousands of women will die from botched self-abortions; and the message from the home of the brave and land of the free is....that only applies if you are a man. Repressive regimes all across the planet look to the President of the Free World and see he legitimises their ideas of women as cattle, and feel vindicated.

So congratulations indeed to the women of Saudi, and the women of Iran, for fighting back against a patriarchal regime:we offer what support we can. I shall continue to wear white on Wednesdays.

But now, perhaps, we should start a movement for wearing black on Fridays for the women of America; whose leader and Administration so admires the leadership of repressive regimes that THEY are COPYING them. Instead of trying to catch up with every other Free World country where citizens are not marginalised because of gender or race. And where any one religious choice is, by law, prevented from impacting on the laws of the land.
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:16:02 AM

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If American women knew their place, and behaved and dressed like fragrant ladies, there would be no problem. Fathers, brothers and husbands would be happy and proud of the female members of their families.


Whistle
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2017 9:22:44 PM

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'Fragrant Ladies' how lovely, I wear Gorgio always, and my husband thinks I am a lovely fragrant lady and this has absolutely nothing to do with women's rights or knowing my place.

Wasn't it Marilyn Munro who said she only wore Chanel 5 to bed?

Rom, nothing else could be expected of Donald Trump, the way he speaks about women is antiquated and to use an old fashioned word, vulgar but it suits him.

To erode long fought women's rights is so backward and not what we would expect from the so called leader of the Free World or a minority of other threatened men, you don't

have to scratch very deeply to find a full on misogynist.

I have found men who are not confident with their own sexuality are most likely to feel superior to women, just a tiny observation I have found over the years.

Stay on the front foot my White Ribboned friend.

tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:54:06 AM

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The impartial objectivity of British judges was demonstrated splendidly in 1987 when, in suggesting that a jury should place credibility in the the words of one female witness, the judge asked "Has she elegance? Has she fragrance? Would she have, without the strain of this trial, radiance?".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Archer

The woman's husband won his case with the help of her evidence.

It was later discovered that both the woman and her husband had lied under oath in court, which shows what can happen when you rely on fragrance.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:05:38 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
The impartial objectivity of British judges was demonstrated splendidly in 1987 when, in suggesting that a jury should place credibility in the the words of one female witness, the judge asked "Has she elegance? Has she fragrance? Would she have, without the strain of this trial, radiance?".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Archer

The woman's husband won his case with the help of her evidence.

It was later discovered that both the woman and her husband had lied under oath in court, which shows what can happen when you rely on fragrance.


Annoyingly, they got away with that perjury, which shows what can happen when you rely on the Law.

I remember, therefore I am.
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:16:11 AM

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She got away with it, but he was later jailed. He clearly was not fragrant enough.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:37:41 AM

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I guess Harvey Weinstein was not wearing Chanel # 5 under his bathrobe. Whistle

Tov, you are absolutely correct - men with self confidence do not need to show their superiority over women. It all goes back to how fairly parents treat and teach their children.

My son said yesterday that he just called a dealership and cancelled any repairs on his wife's vehicle because they would not tell her what was wrong with the car and insisted on talking to him. She told the mechanic she is not stupid but it didn't matter to him. In fact she is one of the smartest people I know.


They just lost their business.





Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:07:32 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
I guess Harvey Weinstein was not wearing Chanel # 5 under his bathrobe. Whistle

Tov, you are absolutely correct - men with self confidence do not need to show their superiority over women. It all goes back to how fairly parents treat and teach their children.

My son said yesterday that he just called a dealership and cancelled any repairs on his wife's vehicle because they would not tell her what was wrong with the car and insisted on talking to him. She told the mechanic she is not stupid but it didn't matter to him. In fact she is one of the smartest people I know.


They just lost their business.


When that kind of behaviour happens in liberal, polite Canada I despair of the world ever getting into the 21st Century. It was the mechanic that was stupid. Sadly, he will probably remain stupid.


I remember, therefore I am.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:20:59 PM
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Jacob -

If you had an hour or 10 I bet the women here could keep you entertained with tales of how mechanics - world-wide - treat women.

As you know by now, I shall never share your pessimism or distrust of the entire human race Not talking ; though, like everyone - I do have my moments!

However, I don't despair about this at all: as more and more women are becoming mechanics, this treating female car-owners as morons is in the forefront of their minds (or at least of those I have talked with).Each one mentioned it amongst their reasons for wanting to become a mechanic. So they treat other women as they wish they'd been treated - women in turn want *only* the female grease-monkey at their car, the garage makes money...win'win.

So nil desperandum, old mate, Dancing Dancing 'Cometh the hour, cometh the woman'.Dancing Dancing
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:30:55 PM

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I am always amused at the sexism I encountered in the early 1970's as a professional photographer, continually asked when the 'man photographer would be arriving ?'as if I

had no more mechanical ability than to push a pram. Funny as I was the owner and most skilled photographer in the business.

As a Thoroughbred Racing trainer later in life the comments were colourful and hilarious and I was very grateful for a winning post to to decide all placings thereby

ending all disputes.

It was many years before some came to accept that I did not have a man behind me directing me or that I had not inherited a 'little black book' from my father who had passed.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:22:47 AM

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Romany!!

I remember, therefore I am.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 12:56:16 PM
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Jacob =

Is that a good (!!) or a bad (!!)? Pray Or is that the way a Scott. Says "Sisters are doin' it..."* Dancing


*(The '80s/ or 90s song)
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2017 6:44:00 PM

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Romany - it's a happy !. like when you are secretly pleased at someone's naughtiness.

I remember, therefore I am.
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:59:52 PM

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Sorry Rom and jaco those comments went through to the keeper, 'please explain'
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 3:46:17 AM

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Tovarish wrote:
Sorry Rom and jaco those comments went through to the keeper, 'please explain'


Well, Romany said "So nil desperandum, old mate, 'Cometh the hour, cometh the woman'." I thought that was brilliantly cheeky so I pretended to scold her (while secretly admiring her cheekiness).

I remember, therefore I am.
tunaafi
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 4:12:18 AM

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I have discovered, jcb, that my occasional attempts at humour or sarcasm often fail dismally.
almo 1
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 10:23:49 AM
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Here cometh the sun








jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 10:49:46 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
I have discovered, jcb, that my occasional attempts at humour or sarcasm often fail dismally.


I am happy to tell you, tunaafi, that you get used to it.Applause

I remember, therefore I am.
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