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The pronunciation of the first syllable in "honey" and "honest" is the same? Options
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 1:17:54 AM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi everyone!
I hear some people pronounce the first syllable in "honey" as the first syllable in "honest".


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
mactoria
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 1:28:01 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
Hi everyone!
I hear some people pronounce the first syllable in "honey" as the first syllable in "honest".


A cooperator: I suppose some people may pronounce the two words similarly, but 'honest' is correctly (and by the vast majority of American English speakers) as if it were spelled "on-ist," with no 'h' sound pronounced (as you probably found in the TFD dictionary). Perhaps you're hearing an accent which is making the pronunciation sound like 'hon' in the word in "honey"???
IMcRout
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 3:38:46 AM

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You moight foind a few cockneys 'oo pronounce 'oney as 'oney but most people do not leave out the 'h' sound. Whistle

I totally take back all those times I didn't want to nap when I was younger. (Anon)
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 7:20:00 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

But, if "honey" and "honest" shared first syllable parity then honey would be "On/ee". Which is decidedly *not* English pronunciation.
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 8:04:50 AM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
IMcRout wrote:
You moight foind a few cockneys 'oo pronounce 'oney as 'oney but most people do not leave out the 'h' sound. Whistle


Thank you all of you very much indeed, Mctoria, IMcRout and Romany
First of all, it is great to hear from you, Mr. IMcRout,
Secondly, I think today your keyboard likes to play with "O" letter in "Moight" and "foind" Boo hoo!

Thirdly, do you think it would let me rapidly progress and memorise pronunciations if I have collected all words with fully-similar(parity) or partially-similar pronunciations each together?



Finally, I have Elsa speak app installed on my Android cellphone.
What I know about my cellphone is as follows:
The manufacturer: China
The model: LT_M5_Lite
The version: I only found "Build number", [SW version]LT_M5_Lite 0205_V5772
[HW version] LT_M5_Lite Mainboard_P2
Kernel version: 3.10.65+
Hardware information: CPU model: AArch64 processor rev3
System: Android 5.1


But, sometimes Elsa app doesn't recognise my voice while speaking to it through my Android cellphone MIC.

Also, it sometimes makes a strictly recognition on a speaker's voice.








Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 8:39:12 AM

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From the little bit I understand about Arabic, the script is pretty phonetic - or a least the consonant sounds are given.

You just have to accept that in English, you cannot be sure you are pronouncing a word correctly unless you know the word. That is just the way it is.


I have never heard these pronounced the same. Even if you drop the 'h' of honey, it is still a u sound, not an o sound.

Honey rhymes with money - but also with funny, runny and sunny. The letter h is sounded except in dialects that commonly drop aitches.
It comes from a Germanic root. A thousand years ago it was spelt huny. Then over the next thousand years its spelling evolved! d'oh!

Honest comes from a French root. It is related to honour/honor. It rhymes with 'on'. The h is not sounded. A thousand years ago it was spelt oneste. Then over the next thousand years, it was introduced into English and its spelling evolved. d'oh!

We are left with the results in modern spelling - you have to meet a word a few times and get used to hearing it and saying it, to learn it.

It is good to work on pronunciation, but be aware it takes time - and nobody expects learners to be perfect. Heck, even natives have to learn from experience.

Learning words with similar pronunciation sounds like a good way to do it. Just remember to learn then in context.
You row a boat but an argument is a row. Know rhymes with no but knowledge rhymes with college.
And you will just have to match the spelling to that particular word.
Tough rhymes with cuff but cough rhymes with coffee and though rhymes with no.
Returning to words you need, again and again, in context, is better than trying to learn a complete list.

And English speakers are well aware of how hard English spelling makes it.
There is a very famous children's book about a bear who loves honey. But of course bears can't spell....
(Or write their letters very well).





There is a bit of variation in English between English dialects ts, regions and styles. But the most common pronunciations, most useful for a learner, are listed in good online (and paper) dictionaries. If in doubt about a pronunciation, find a reliable dictionary site you can trust, and believe that. I think some of the people and places you are treating as sources for learning are not good examples!
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 9:34:07 AM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
From the little bit I understand about Arabic, the script is pretty phonetic - or a least the consonant sounds are given.

You just have to accept that in English, you cannot be sure you are pronouncing a word correctly unless you know the word. That is just the way it is.

There is a bit of variation in English between English dialects ts, regions and styles. But the most common pronunciations, most useful for a learner, are listed in good online (and paper) dictionaries. If in doubt about a pronunciation, find a reliable dictionary site you can trust, and believe that. I think some of the people and places you are treating as sources for learning are not good examples!


Thanks a lot, Thar
I have many electronic dictionaries, such as Longman, Oxfford, etc but I couldn't find a feature enabling a speaker to speak to a dictionary app through a MIC, and then that dictionary app tries to test the voice, and gives the speaker percentage as to native speaker. Have you come back to my previous post and seen that Elsa speak app I posted its screenshots?

You don't think that Elsa speak app can make me be sure I am pronouncing a word correctly?

I am really struggling with some pronunciations. I think it futile to learn English while you don't speak in it with anyone.
You always at this splendid forum take some of your precious time out to help us understand grammar and other English skills. Why do you think I cannot find much help with English speaking skill. I think my English speaking sounds horrible.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 12:07:50 AM

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A cooperator wrote:
You don't think that Elsa speak app can make me be sure I am pronouncing a word correctly?

I don't know an app which will correct your speaking (or grade it in this way).

However, your screenshot shows Elsa writing the phonetics of 'futile' and 'futilely'.
These are not correct at all.

futile - /fju:taɪl/ - it rhymes with 'smile'.

futilely - /fju:taɪlɪ/ or /fju:taɪl-lɪ/ (the difference is very small, and it depends on whether the word is stressed in the sentence rhythm).

I have never heard anyone say /fjutɪl/ or /fjutəl/

. . .
I just listened to 'futile' in the three TFD versions - now I see.
The American woman says "feudal" /fju:dəl/ and the American man says /fju:təl/

Your app must 'speak' some version of American English.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
palapaguy
Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 12:40:24 AM

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Joined: 10/28/2013
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Location: Calabasas, California, United States
A cooperator wrote:
Hi everyone!
I hear some people pronounce the first syllable in "honey" as the first syllable in "honest".


No drama is warranted here.

1. Do a Google search on "honey pronounce".

2. You have your choice of BE and AE pronunciations.

3. Choose one.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 8:54:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,277
Neurons: 8,192
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
You don't think that Elsa speak app can make me be sure I am pronouncing a word correctly?

I don't know an app which will correct your speaking (or grade it in this way).

However, your screenshot shows Elsa writing the phonetics of 'futile' and 'futilely'.
These are not correct at all.

futile - /fju:taɪl/ - it rhymes with 'smile'.

futilely - /fju:taɪlɪ/ or /fju:taɪl-lɪ/ (the difference is very small, and it depends on whether the word is stressed in the sentence rhythm).

I have never heard anyone say /fjutɪl/ or /fjutəl/

. . .
I just listened to 'futile' in the three TFD versions - now I see.
The American woman says "feudal" /fju:dəl/ and the American man says /fju:təl/

Your app must 'speak' some version of American English.


Thank you both of you very much indeed,
But my app 'Elsa' writes phonetics of 'futile' as /fjutɪl/ or of 'futilely' as /fjutili/
That app is designed to American English.
So, you think it is not recommended to be used.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:51:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 26,741
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi.

At first, I thought that the phonetic symbols for "futile" were incorrect - but later I learned that it is correct for American English.

"English" has many different pronunciations - even "native speakers" speak differently.

I think that your Elsa app will help - but don't be discouraged by the percentages it assigns for you.
Real people can easily understand variations (I can understand "Standard English", British, American, Australian, Indian, Jamaican and many more types) but a computer program is a little limited.

This is a short (four minutes) humorous show about voice-recognition technology.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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