The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Shouldn't it be 'were' instead of 'was'? Options
Koh Elaine
Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 11:35:21 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 2,606
Neurons: 10,709
90-year-old Mr Tang Kong Yuen has reported that he has yet to make a sale at his new Chinatown Market stall despite being there for the past two weeks since he moved out of Sungei Road Market which is to be closed down for demolition tomorrow.

The first-generation hawker is one of 11 others who was offered a full rental subsidy for the first year at Chinatown market. He makes a living selling gemstones, power tools, old mobile phones and the like.

In speaking to TODAY (one of the local newspapers), he said:

“Back at the Sungei Road Market, I could earn about S$50 to S$60 a day without even batting an eyelid. Now, I cannot even earn enough for my daily cup of coffee.”


Shouldn't it be 'were' instead of 'was'?

Thanks.
palapaguy
Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 11:41:13 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 417
Neurons: 7,143
Location: Calabasas, California, United States
Yes.
thar
Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 1:40:00 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,864
Neurons: 63,557
He cannot be one of the others. By definition, others are not him!

So this has two things conflated.

Either it talks about him (and a removable comma-separated phrase)
The hawker is one who was...
The hawker is one who, along with eleven others, was....


Or the whole group:

The hawker is one of the twelve who were...


I think you have only three options. Whistle
1 Accept there is a lot of non-standard English in your local media, and take it as local variation.
2 Start reading a better class of English-language media (but will it then be written more by foreign, or foreign-educated, writers? Think
Or
3 Demand a job as a proof-reader. Whistle
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, July 09, 2017 10:23:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,114
Neurons: 149,104
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hello Koh Elaine.

I agree with thar, it should be (something like) either:
The hawker is one who, along with eleven others, was....
or
The hawker is one of the twelve who were...

There are other 'questionable' points too.

I would expect him to be offered a rent subsidy, not a rental subsidy.

I cannot think what "and the like" could be when the named items are so different. Gemstones, power tools and old mobile phones are not 'alike' at all - there is no relationship between them.

The first sentence gives us at least five different items of data. They are not totally disrelated, but they don't really need to be in one long sentence.
It would be more communicative to split the sentence in two.
(Mr. Tang's statement is very clearly stated - he could have used one big sentence, but it is very clear with two sentences.)

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
thar
Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 1:34:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,864
Neurons: 63,557
Good catch with 'and the like'. You are right - that could include anything!


I am interested in the use of the word 'hawker'.

These sound like market traders who rent a pitch at a market.
To me hawkers
1 go round the streets, door to door


Or
2 set up pitch illegally, and are set to scarper quickly when the authorities arrive


Quote:
From hawkers to criminals: how the Lagos ban on street selling hurts the city
Hundreds of thousands of Lagosians make their living selling food and household goods in traffic, providing a valuable service to commuters and a solid (if dangerous) job. A new crackdown aims to change all that, but at what cost?
Photo:The hawkers, who offer food and small goods to gridlocked commuters with no time to shop, now risk up to six months in jail and a fine of 90,000 naira.

Wednesday 3 August 2016 07.30 BST Last modified on Wednesday 31 May 2017 11.00 BST
On a mostly disused railway line in Ikeja, central Lagos, Bola Jimo has spread out her wares: drinks and snacks and small goods on stools, fabrics laid out directly on the tracks.

“I get here at 7 or 8 am and don’t leave until 10pm”, explains Jimo, a 40-year-old single mother of three. As we speak, her 18-year-old son minds the stall: both of her sons are street traders as well, weaving between lanes of traffic selling to commuters trapped in their cars in Lagos’s notorious gridlock. “It’s dangerous of course,” she says. “I never wanted them to do it, but life happened that way.”

On a good day she makes roughly 1,000 naira (£2.50), and works six days a week. “It is hard but I have no other choice. I didn’t go to school, I can’t steal or sell myself. I have to sell for my children’s school fees, for rent and food.”

If life is hard, it is about to get harder. Despite selling on the streets for 20 years, a new total ban on street hawking has suddenly made Jimo’s livelihood – and that of thousands of others in Lagos – criminal.

“The task force and police came three times this morning alone,” she says, adding that because street trading is so difficult to ban, authorities are resorting to aggressive tactics. “We had to run because they were confiscating our goods and taking traders away. What are we to do if we do not sell? This is our only livelihood.”


The trading and illegal market law has banned street selling since 2003, but has been only fleetingly policed. In late June this year, however, a street hawker in Lagos was killed by a car while trying to avoid being apprehended by road officials. Incensed at the death, groups of fellow street hawkers became violent, destroying 14 buses and vehicles.

The governor of Lagos, Akinwunmi Ambode, responded by declaring that the ban on street hawkers would be implemented immediately across the city. It applies to both those who sell and buy goods on the street, and carries a punishment of six months in prison and a 90,000 naira (£213) fine.

According to Victoria Ohere, the director of the Lagos-based NGO Spaces for Change, the ban unlawfully infringes on the rights of street hawkers.

“It unfairly empowers state authorities to seize items, and gives the state the authority to sell them off and dispose of them as they wish,” she says. “Their goods are forfeited even if they are not convicted. I’ve rarely seen a ban so insensitive to people’s realities.”

What are we to do if we do not sell? This is our only livelihood
Bola Jimo
Street trading is woven into the culture of daily life in Lagos. Constant traffic jams and congestion provide a ready market for sellers to hawk their goods to commuters. The sellers on bridges and expressways are predominantly young men, proffering everything from drinks and sausage rolls to floor mats and bed linen. Fruit sellers, mostly women, cluster on and beneath pedestrian bridges and around bus stops: wherever the congestion will make selling more profitable.

Buying on the street is particularly convenient for car commuters, who can spend hours a day imprisoned in traffic. Many of the items sold on the streets and roadsides are also easier to find than in shopping malls, and are significantly cheaper. Informal markets have sprung up near main bus stops across the city.

Street selling has nevertheless been a contentious issue in Lagos for years. Children under 16 and as young as six sell openly and widely throughout Nigeria, leaving them vulnerable to physical and sexual abuse. In many cases their “career” also deprives them of compulsory education. It is illegal for children to sell, but it is rarely policed.

The previous governor, Babatunde Fashola, banned selling in a number of areas (including in a marketplace beneath an Ikeja expressway where Jimo previously sold oranges), part of the state government’s objectives to modernise the design and infrastructure of Lagos – objectives that often see vibrant, crowded commercial areas as obstacles. Some of the traders are allocated new areas that are less densely populated, and consequently less commercially viable.


The question of enforcement, meanwhile, remains huge. The prevalence of street hawking makes it difficult to police. While the Governor’s announcement serves as a firm instructive to police officers and road officials, it will take more than a few isolated arrests to end an industry upon which thousands of Lagosians rely.



3 is a negative term - if you are hawking something, metaohorically', the use of that word implies it is a bad thing, or you have an ulterior motive.

So, a hawker is mobile, actively travels to the customer,
(or pesters them)
and is sometimes considered little more than a criminal.
I heard the word used in a programme on Michelin [restaurant] guides in Asia, where apparently a food stall holder named (I think) Hawker Chan, got one in Singapore. Is that right?

So I am seeing a distinct local use of the word. What Singapore calls a hawker, other places would call a market trader or food stall holder. And it is a respectable business.Elsewhere the word has a different meaning. Less of a fixed stall, and less of a respectable businessperson!

Quote:
hawker (plural hawkers)

A peddler, huckster, who travels about to sell easily transportable goods.


Quote:
hawker
(hɔːkəʳ )
Word forms: plural hawkers
countable noun
You can use hawker to refer to a person who tries to sell things by calling at people's homes or standing in the street, especially when you do not approve of this activity.
[disapproval]
...as soon as she saw that it was a visitor and not a hawker or tramp at her door.
Synonyms: pedlar, tout, vendor, travelling salesman

Koh Elaine
Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 7:22:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 2,606
Neurons: 10,709
Thanks, thar and DragOnspeaker.

Indeed, where I live, the word 'hawker' has often been used wrongly by most of us to refer to a stallholder.
Romany
Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:54:59 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 13,108
Neurons: 39,984
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Actually, Koh, you aren't using it incorrectly if it is the accepted term in your community. But also because, after Drago's post which got me wondering, I discovered yet another AE/BE English difference.

The Oxford defines 'hawker' exactly as Drago says - but Wiki and other American publications give it as a synonym for costermonger.

So no-one's right or wrong - just different.
Priscilla86
Posted: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:39:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 902
Neurons: 4,009
Location: Lavender, Singapore
Drag0nspeaker wrote:


I would expect him to be offered a rent subsidy, not a rental subsidy.


I don't catch the difference. Could you elaborate on why 'rental subsidy' is wrong?

=======================

thar, about 'hawker', it is a local term.

To understand this use, you need to know the history a little bit: Before the rapid urbanization in the 1950s and 1960s, Singapore used to have a lot of street food hawkers much like those found in less developed countries today. They were unlicensed and varied in terms of hygiene. The Government sought to standardize them, so they took these hawkers off the street, put them in a proper sheltered place with shared tables and chairs for patrons, and traded their carts with stalls and so, hawker centers were born.

They are what you would call 'food courts' in the US, not sure in UK or Europe. They are termed so because they started off as centers for hawkers. Nowadays, most stalls are operated by the second or third generation of the original 'hawkers' who haven't been 'hawkers' in the actual sense of the word in a long time - or they may even be new players on the scene - but they are still called 'hawkers'.

Hawker centers specifically refers to those without air-conditioning and bare-minimum service. No tax. No receipt. You collect the food yourself and (ideally) clean up after yourself though not many observe this rule.

Another term that has been localized which you may find amusing is 'coffee shop'. In Singapore, some people refer to a small hawker center as a 'coffee shop'. They usually have the same set-up as hawker centers (no AC, shared tables and chairs) but with only 3-4 food stalls plus a drink stall, unlike in the US where it refers to a single-vendor establishments such as Starbucks or a cafe.


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 2:25:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,864
Neurons: 63,557
That's interesting. Thanks.
So the respectability of the word came along with the management of the issue. A very Singaporean solution, I think. I love how words mirror local sociology!


I don't think there are European equivalents. There are some areas of markets with a lot of food stalls, but the 'food court' style is not that popular, as far as I know. Either street food to take away, or small street cafes.




This is the equivalent in Iceland. A world-famous (ahem) street-food chain. Whistle
Founded in 1937, now run by founder's granddaughter.
You can see how much it has grown.

Foreign dignitaries visit to pay their respects.

I love how he looks so sheepish.

It even has a.c.



It is a 'destination' - in the guides and everything. But I can't help wondering what people think when they see it. A lamb hot-dog stall and a bench. I suspect tourists from Singapore (or SE Asia, or America) wonder what the heck?

Priscilla86
Posted: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 5:01:17 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 902
Neurons: 4,009
Location: Lavender, Singapore
thar, I happen to have a colleague who just went to Iceland recently, so I asked him. He said he didn't know about this hot dog stall (though he is the type who doesn't do much research before going somewhere. But he went with a tour so I'm surprised that they didn't take him there. They took him to - surprise, surprise - the Blue Lagoon. But he said he went to an 'Americanized street' where there was a cowboy-themed shop. I wonder if this hot dog stall is located there.

Why is this hotdog chain such an institution, though? Do you frequent this chain?


The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
Koh Elaine
Posted: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:38:53 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 2,606
Neurons: 10,709
Thanks to all of you.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:21:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,114
Neurons: 149,104
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Priscilla! - sorry to be slow in answering.

I think that 'subsidy' is traditionally modified by a noun, that's all.

You get a tax subsidy, not a taxational subsidy.
A rent subsidy, not a rental subsidy.
A price subsidy . . . (what would the adjective be for that?)

*************
Quote:
They were unlicensed and varied in terms of hygiene.
No tax. No receipt. You collect the food yourself . . .

These definitely apply to 'hawkers' but not to food courts in the UK.

Food courts are inside shopping malls (usually at one end, but sometimes at a junction of several avenues.
They are licensed, inspected (by the Health Department), taxed, rented, kept clean, patrolled by security.

They are like ten or twenty individual franchises (in the photo below - from Manchester - I can see McDonald's, Burgher King, (maybe) a Ben & Gerry's, Pizza Hut, Subway, and a few unrecognisable ones) with a common eating area.
The clean-up is done by the Mall Corporation, with the small franchises paying for that as part of their rent.
The ones on the top floor have their own dining spaces.



***********
I don't think it's actually part of the etymology, but I connect 'hawking' with 'hunting'.

A hawker actively seeks out customers - he/she grabs people, blocks the pavement, shouts out about what he/she's selling.

"All down Wellington Street people could be seen fluttering out the pink sheets and reading, and the Strand was suddenly noisy with the voices of an army of hawkers following these pioneers."
"Even at ten o'clock, when the Rostovs got out of their carriage at the chapel, the sultry air, the shouts of hawkers, the light and gay summer clothes of the crowd, the dusty . . ."
". . . the bleating of sheep, the grunting and squeaking of pigs, the cries of hawkers, the shouts, oaths, and quarrelling on all sides; the ringing of bells and roar of voices, that issued from every public-house. . ."

"Roll up! Roll up! Get your watches here. Genuine gold plated Rolex for only £5.99!"



This is "Cut My Own Throat" Dibbler - entrepreneur in the field of fine foods in the city of Ankh-Morpork. Famous for his 'Sausage innabun' - "so fresh, the pig doesn't even know it's gone". Lock up your dogs, cats and pet rats.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.