The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

death penalty .... agree or disagree? Options
Choson
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:07:27 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/31/2012
Posts: 13
Neurons: 39
Location: United States, NY
ClubFavolosa wrote:
Choson wrote:
I'd welcome my death.


Agree with Tovarish. Anyways, welcome to Farlex's FreeDict Forum and an advice: Go and talk to a therapist.



Thanks for the welcome.

As for death and welcoming it, I mean it strictly in the most abstract, ontological sense.
Quote:
If it be now, 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come. The readiness is all.
That Shakespeare quote pretty much sums up what I mean.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:26:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
We step on each others toes with out even meaning to at times, no need to be provocative, ha ha.

As we are on the 'death penalty' topic, can a US member tell me why Charles Manson hasnt been put to death yet?

seems to have had endless appeals.
RuthP
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:41:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 4,991
Neurons: 41,280
Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
Tovarish wrote:
We step on each others toes with out even meaning to at times, no need to be provocative, ha ha.

As we are on the 'death penalty' topic, can a US member tell me why Charles Manson hasnt been put to death yet?

seems to have had endless appeals.

Because California (the state in which Manson was convicted) abolished the death penalty. All death sentences automatically changed to life in prison.
pedro
Posted: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:10:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,001
Neurons: 60,852
plus he's probably still under contract to produce his next album
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson_discography#Albums

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, June 25, 2012 12:24:18 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan
jhonlarson
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:59:32 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 14
Neurons: 42
Location: Kent
There are lots of states which allready ended the death penality in the law but few states have not done it, they are looking forward change to some thing.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:56:01 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Just when we are being provocative, what about the financial costs to the country, after all appeals have been exhausted.

I believe it is $80,000AUD pa to keep any prisoner in custody.

Have some people , by their heinous actions, given up their right to life?
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:05:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,371
Neurons: 411,334
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tovarish wrote:
Just when we are being provocative, what about the financial costs to the country, after all appeals have been exhausted.

I believe it is $80,000AUD pa to keep any prisoner in custody.

Have some people , by their heinous actions, given up their right to life?


Some people have. There are some murderers in prison right now who should be put to death. They don't deserve to be acommodated at the taxpayers' expense or to receive free medical and dental care. They are unrepentant, boastful, arrogant killers. The authorities know who they are. Hang them.

I remember, therefore I am.
pedro
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:41:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,001
Neurons: 60,852


All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:38:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,371
Neurons: 411,334
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
By the neck, pedro.

I remember, therefore I am.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:35:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Actually hanging, gas and the electric chair have been outlawed as cruel and unusual punishment?

Lethal Injection is the current choice de jour I believe.

We don't have Capital Punishment, and if you listen to the Politicians, we never will.

I was having a 'What if Moment', and could give you a list of men who will never be released.

They are having some degree of a life behind bars, is the loss of liberty enough for their crimes?
almostfreebird
Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:09:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan

This kind of criminal should be in prison much longer:


would be released after six months on a good behavior bond.







Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:42:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
This man is an insult to all War Veterans, but shame also has to go to our DVA for allowing this crook to wiggle through any authenticity checks.
Geeman
Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:39:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
Tovarish wrote:
They are having some degree of a life behind bars, is the loss of liberty enough for their crimes?

Not in my opinion, for reasons already noted in previous posts....

A lot of people seem to think that murderers are going to be suffering behind bars, but I really don't think that's the case as a general rule. I'm sure they'd rather be free, and in certain countries they might be in such a situation that they are suffering due to the nature of the prison, but I don't think that's the case in most Western nations where the standard of living INSIDE A PRISON is better than many people have in the world.

Apparently, something like 1/3 of the Earth's population live without running water in their homes. Compared to the standard human condition, most prisons are not the dens of punishment and justice that the logic of those who oppose the death penalty seem to embrace. I'm sure those locked up behind bars suffer RELATIVE to middle class suburban life, but I doubt that loss of freedom really equates to "suffering" in the sense that most people understand that word.

In a strange, rather perverse way, I can't help but notice that keeping a murderer alive and behind bars acts as a sort of bizarre living monument to those the murderer killed. The relatives of victims can imagine that their loved one's killer is somehow suffering for his crime, and maybe on a semi-regular basis they can write letters to parole boards to prevent that person from ever being released. The relatives don't have to let go of their resentment, and by transference, never have to let go of the person they lost. In a strange way, they keep the murderer alive as that is the most direct way to keep the memory of the person who was killed by them alive. That doesn't seem very useful to me, and probably not a good psychological standard for those who have been forced to grieve in some of the worst possible ways.
RRP
Posted: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:20:47 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/29/2009
Posts: 165
Neurons: 514
I borrow from Corinthians to expound on addressing states of being. The specific context here is the emphasis of absolution with semantics. This could be useful in dealing with the duality of contradictory terms of judgment and forgiveness...

1 Corinthians 7:27

Have you become committed to a wife? Stop trying to get released from your commitment. Have you been freed from your commitment to a wife? Stop looking for one.


So in the same sense one could gather that the laws present we should deal with as are, not changing one way or the other, but in the same sense using that measuring line to observe whether or not such a structure indeed has legs at all under natural liberties and choice surrounding it. Inevitably if it does not survive, it will collapse in of itself and vanish, regenerating a new absolution once again from its ashes...yet the root will remain the same. Is there a front against proactiveness from this result? I would say no, however the limits remain the same regardless of the approach and liberty is its resultant. Nominally these same limits relate to any dynamic body in motion to even call themselves a body in the first place, regardless of the choice or opportunity to alter them afterwards..

-fini
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Sunday, July 22, 2012 5:37:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,371
Neurons: 411,334
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
kingfisher wrote:
I disagree with the death penalty, even in cases where the person is caught red-handed and there is no doubt about his/her guilt.

I think it's wrong for the state to kill people. It does not serve as a deterrant, and it is barbaric.


Prison does not serve as a deterrant either. It is not barbaric enough. We have got to take the romance out of gun crimes such as the Aurora massacre. Holmes, if found guilty, should be publicly flogged until he screams for his momma and then hanged by the neck until he is dead.

I remember, therefore I am.
dusty
Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:36:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 1,769
Neurons: 5,755
In regards to the Bible, you know, of all the families books that were included in the new testament (whatever and however things happened to yield the final words that made it to print, whether the words were changed so much that the author of the original content would not agree that the printed words said what they meant or if they were not edited at all, but verbatim, eitherway)

all of the words, esp the words not repeated by later writings of familiar subsequent generations with essentially the same content (repeated content by a different author with little prior knowledge of the words written by the relatives of earlier generations) while I am not saying that only the words which were re-written by younger family members while skipping generations are the words closer to the truth of recorded history, I believe that was definitely what the editors were looking for, but still don't understand why the messages were intentional obfuscated, but anyway, if the author was Paul, he seemed to have an angry, sarcastic and sometimes passive aggressive voice in those words.

All the while maintaining possibly the most skill with words out of all the authors. Nobody could slip in passive aggressive insults like those guys could. Those guys made an art out of disguising abusive chauvinistic, manipulative words that were read as gospel by the masses. I wonder if it was the editors or the author, or if it could have been the work of author/editors?

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Geeman
Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:20:18 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
I don't take my cues from the Bible much, especially regarding capital punishment. IIRC, one can be stoned to death for violating the Sabbath, and that means I'd probably not make it until Monday....
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 6:24:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
'An eye for an eye' and every one ends up blind, might not make a huge difference at times.
almostfreebird
Posted: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:35:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan



Tovarish wrote:
'An eye for an eye' and every one ends up blind, might not make a huge difference at times.





It seems to me that you are mixing up "Death Penalty" and "An eye for an eye", while you are bitching about the financial cost to keep crooks in prison.

I recommend you to be an executioner.




Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 9:21:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
They are not my words, but Ghandi's, anyone who is well read would have known that.
RRP
Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:52:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/29/2009
Posts: 165
Neurons: 514
The writings of Paul are indeed almost of caustic shrewdness that strike deeply, esp. for one attempting to extrapolate rule from them. In that sense I always find there is a decision making process being demanded of, which forces the purpose of the notes out only from the context of the attrition of necessity. That is to say it forces one to believe the love of God before making a finite decision. Paul was laying out the foundation for all future churches as well as much of it in context. Given that the account to a believer is that it is inspired of the Spirit, I could not lend the application to misogyny or manipulation as it would indicate the Holy Spirit as being such. That it has been used that way is of course the "standard versus performance rating" scenario of life. Tactical verbatim accounts lend themselves to what is suggested instead of the entire message of the Bible. In any case, the story of Solomon's error suggests indeed that righteousness better than wisdom. It would be unfortunate for the word of God (to be simple) to be disregarded in any case as it appears to have some longevity..

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I quote scripture from time to time of course from the standpoint as a believer, so that it was said, and not on being dependant upon convincing others.

and I...of course would suffer the same fate as Geeman being a sinner myself in the general sense..just like anyone else. His scenario description reminds me of Jesus’ judgment of the adulteress, warning of the consequences of sinning again, but after saving her from death. The message of judgement evolves as the New Testament comes into focus and closes..and when the law is fulfilled, there is a striking drop in the external laws, even to the point where Paul warns against followers using applications of them as a methodology. (I say this in the utmost general sense) Ironically this same point to me drives home a warning against persecuting the Jews.


-fini
Geeman
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 1:23:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
Norway Mass Killer Gets the Maximum: 21 Years

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/europe/anders-behring-breivik-murder-trial.html?pagewanted=all

Quote:
Mr. Breivik, lawyers say, will live in a prison outside Oslo in a three-cell suite of rooms equipped with exercise equipment, a television and a laptop, albeit one without Internet access. If he is not considered a threat after serving his sentence, the maximum available under Norwegian law, he will be eligible for release in 2033, at the age of 53.

Yup. 21 years in prison. With a computer to write letters. He could be out in just a few years, and WILL be out by 2034. So, 7-14 weeks for each person he murdered.
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:28:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
I heard that discredited last week, by Norway, can we find out if it is true?

21 years seems inadequate, what happened to a Life Sentence?

The families must be horrified.
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:50:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,001
Neurons: 60,852
It is at least 21 years as far as I understand, which means he is unlikely ever to come out, especially as he is apparently going to write his own version of Mein Kampf. Whatever the Turing test for wickedness is, I doubt that he will pass it even after 21 years.

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
RuthP
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:32:13 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 4,991
Neurons: 41,280
Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
Twenty-one years is the usual maximum. Norway, however, has a 'danger to society' provision which allows for review and extension. It is very unlikely this man will ever get out of prison.
Geeman
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:19:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
According to the article IIRC there is an open-ended aspect to the sentencing that allows them to extend the penalty for 5 years, then another 5 years, then another, etc. So, he'll probably never get out of his three room prison suite with access to a computer.

Still, if he lives another 77 years he'll still have served a year for each murder. His victims were mostly teenagers, so he took from them an average of 50-55 years (assuming their life expectancy is the modern day average for the sake of the math) that's still around 4000 years of life he destroyed.

Buy, hey, I'm sure warehousing this guy so he can espouse his views from behind bars for the rest of their lives will make the families feel a lot better. And Norway is better off for keeping this guy around trying to organize a secret "army" of potential mass murderers who admire him. How could THAT possibly backfire?
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:06:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Down here criminals cannot profit from crime, ie writing books in their infamousy.

The smirk on this blokes face when he was proven to be sane, made me sick to my boot straps.

Interesting that the worst criminals, committing the most heinous acts are not necessarily insane, although the act seems insane to us.

Geeman
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:23:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
Tovarish wrote:
Down here criminals cannot profit from crime, ie writing books in their infamousy.

The smirk on this blokes face when he was proven to be sane, made me sick to my boot straps.

Interesting that the worst criminals, committing the most heinous acts are not necessarily insane, although the act seems insane to us.

The U.S. has the same set of laws. Criminals cannot profit from telling the stories of their crimes.

However, they can do/sell things that are unrelated to their crimes. John Wayne Gacy, for example, had a pretty extensive career as a painter:

http://www.museumsyndicate.com/artist.php?artist=475

Similarly, political activities are not restricted, as long as they remain within the bounds of normal speech. That is, they cannot do things like plot crimes outright. For instance, Charles Manson is an environmentalist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/charles-manson-global-warming_n_851187.html

Breivik is going to dance that dance for the rest of his life.... He'd like to inspire a small, extremist political group with a few dozen members. That sounds like a great plan. After all, it's good that these guys can have a career behind bars, right? Just because they slaughtered people without provocation is no reason to deny them their lives, not even a livelihood....
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:17:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Journalism & reporting remains under question to me, so I can never be sure what is being told is accurate reporting.

I couldn't understand why Breivik shot so many Norwegians, as he quite openly said he was anti immigrant, especially muslims.

Was he attempting to hurt the party that was pro immigration for their policies?

Yes the so called writing of 'tell all' books happens here to, as per the Australian David Hooks who was imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay prison for

his actions with the Taliban via Pakistan.
Geeman
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 4:19:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
Tovarish wrote:
Journalism & reporting remains under question to me, so I can never be sure what is being told is accurate reporting.

I couldn't understand why Breivik shot so many Norwegians, as he quite openly said he was anti immigrant, especially muslims.

Was he attempting to hurt the party that was pro immigration for their policies?

Yes the so called writing of 'tell all' books happens here to, as per the Australian David Hooks who was imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay prison for

his actions with the Taliban via Pakistan.

Well, one of the amazing things that happens in these kinds of cases is that the murderer has to be deemed "legally sane" by the courts. I think most people would have to say that the common use understanding of "sanity" does not include spree killing. What that means is that our legal system is itself insane. It's a system that has to look at a person who is obviously deranged and rule that that person is not actually crazy.

Clearly this guy is insane. The focus of his insanity is immigration and a supposition that his culture is somehow being damaged by immigrants, particularly Muslim immigrants.

The question, though, is whether someone can be "functionally" insane. That is, insane, but still able to function as a human being, and how that should influence their treatment by the legal system. Is insane and capable meaningfully different from sane and murderous?
almostfreebird
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:21:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan
almostfreebird
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:03:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan

The man who killed ex-Beatle John Lennon said in his most recent parole bid that he hoped to live and work with an upstate New York minister if released, according to a hearing transcript released Wednesday.


http://news.yahoo.com/lennon-killer-wants-live-minister-freed-182326111.html

Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:39:54 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Sorry AFB,

I got my cricketers mixed up, have just finished watching "Howzat", Kerry Packer's One Day Series, well worth watching.

Aussie TV, 2 part series.

You are quite right it is Hicks, not Hooks.

I believe the charges were dropped, or not worth proceeding, either way he has written a book.

People who commit dreadful crimes & Crimes against Humanity, seem to be able to compartmentalise their lives.

"All in a days work" now home to the wife & children.
WordWarrior
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:00:02 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 8/26/2012
Posts: 77
Neurons: 37
Location: United States, ME
The death penalty is a wonderful thing.

The fact is that extremely evil people, can easily be replaced, and it feels fantastic.

This may stem from a bastardization of Greek and Hebrew texts; thou shalt not murder is a commandment.

Thou shalt not kill was never a commandment, even as I truly love Jains in their kindness.

This is all math, yes life is precious;
if one evil man has killed raped and harmed children;
Why not kill him, then let some good men, like English teachers, just replace him on silk sheets.
God himself, and Jesus Christ the Republican, surely prescribed capital punishment.
Liberals say " It was a figure of speech when he said, caste him into the sea (to drown) "
Truth is always literal.

Analogy comes in two forms; ANA LAW G are Good; ANAL - logy is self explanatory.
Christ did not come to make confusing figures of speech having Analogical liberal spins,
he was LITERAL, and a double edged sword.

Evil people will distort the laws of nature to allow say, paedophiles to breed freely.
Good righteous men, will hunt them down like the dogs they are, and kill them.
Then they go home to their beautiful wife, and replace that criminal,
and if feels perfect and wonderful.

Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines | Privacy policy | Copyright © 2008-2018 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.