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death penalty .... agree or disagree? Options
memphis jailer
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 7:51:11 PM

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for years i've agreed with the death penalty .... i still do ....

july 3 shots fired at a downtown hotel and the call went out ... before an officer got to roll call he thought it best to check the situation out, the downtown area being crowded and all ... while checking the stairwell he was shot ... the suspect allegedly placed two fire extinguishers next to the officers body to shoot at in a supposed attemt to kill and/or hurt more people .... the suspect was taken into custody with very minor (due to the circumstances) injuries and was taken to the hospital .... the officer was also transported and pronounced dead at the hospital .... the suspect left another victim at the hotel .... the suspect shot his wife's exhusband and was pronounced doa ....

this story is very interesting and would be worth reading if time permits ... there are several little stories involved

the hero police officer who gave from the time he was a child to the time of his death because he felt that was his calling as a christian

the police officer and exhusband distant relatives that never met

the suspect's family that stated that their son did it .... that he wasn't raised that way but while off on a tour of duty in the military something happened and he never was the same ... kicked out of the military for problems with anger

it's a very tragic story ... many lives were lost ... and possibly one more added to the list

i agree with the death penalty .... i don't believe that as a society we should be forced to sustain life to those that took life ... i believe in appeals in order to give people a chance to prove their innocence if wrongly convicted in a lower court ... but what i don't agree with is the timeline ... here in memphis back in the 80's a man commited a robbery in which a police officer was shot and killed .... the suspect did not shoot the officer, but hadnot the suspect held the store up the officer would not have been shot .... the suspect was convicted and sentenced to death .... (around) 20 years later the suspect was finally laid to rest .... the facts of the case never changed yet he still lived through the years .... you may think that it's worse for them to live in prison, but really most grow accustomed .... and almost all inmates do not work or provide a service ... our tax dollars are paying for these individuals to live

i believe the appeal process should not last longer than 5 years .... criminals today don't fear time or sentencing ... they do percentages of the years and when broken down allow them to get out earlier to cause more crime by either teaching it to younger people or performing it because they can't find a job with an aggrivated robbery on their background ....

another story that happened here a gang member was shooting at another gang member and accidently shot and killed a 9 year old ... the suspect only received 9 years ....

so do you agree or disagree with the death penalty?

your signature is silly!
glenn
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 8:31:52 PM
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Best example we have is we are still feeding the slug that murdered 7 people in the Xerox building a few years ago. Never been any doubt about his innocence. So why is this useless piece of trash still alive? No death penalty here since the Monarchy. Aloha
excaelis
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 9:32:20 PM

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Much as many of these things fully deserve to have their human privileges revoked, I have to disagree with the death penalty. My reason is simple: it is irrevocable, and when you have executed an innocent person who is to be held responsible ? Would you want to be the one explaining to his/her family " Awfully sorry, chaps, but that's just the way the ball bounces. Chin up! "

Sanity is not statistical
boneyfriend
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 9:53:19 PM

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I've always thought that I would believe in the death penalty if I could be the one who made the decision as to whether or not death would be the penalty. But so far, I have not been assigned that task. Some crimes are so terrible that they are just hard to bear. For instance, those that involve torture. I cringe as I write that. But I think excaelis is correct. There have been too many mistakes made. Innocent people have been put on death row. Innocent people have been executed for a crime they didn't commit. It is better for 10 guilty persons to go free than for one innocent person to be incarcerated and put to death unjustly.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. Ben Williams
HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 10:54:34 PM

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I agree with it,

Provided it is rare.

Right now, Ratko Miladic (spelling) is being held to account for his mass murders in the Balkans. If found guilty, he should be fitted for a snug rope neck tie.

In the vast majority of murders, there is passion involved, rage, a lack of pre-meditation. People snap. They should pay. But, death is far too permanent. Consider, based on their emotional state, they did wrong. Ten minutes later they regret it.

The difference is, Rat(co) thinks he's right, a psychopath has no remorse. Most that do this crime wish they didn't, and I think having to live with it is a very valid punishment. I don't begrudge them a bunk and some food while they pay their price.

When these people snap, do we execute them? Just a few years, months, days ago, they were heroes.

You bring up a very valid point worthy of it's own thread:

The ticking time-bomb of literally millions of US vets scarred by the endless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, coming home, dysfunctional, with PTSD. Those bills are coming due. Watch the violent crime rate rise in the USA over the next few years.

When these unfortunate vets snap, do whe execute those that only recently were hailed as returning heroes?

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
jcbarros
Posted: Friday, July 8, 2011 11:17:49 PM

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Yesterday we had the case of the ill-fated Mary Surratt. Good example of human errors and the irrevocability of the death penalty.
"I don´t know why they call it death penalty. It´s not a penalty; you´re out of the game!" (Reversal of Fortune - Film)
ezfreemann
Posted: Saturday, July 9, 2011 1:41:46 AM

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why should a country be allowed to break its own laws?

a man with a watch knows what time it is....a man with two watches is never sure....
Fortescuegene
Posted: Saturday, July 9, 2011 8:28:51 AM
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Exanmine the case of a Mr. Willingham, of Texas, accused of killing his 3 children. After execution it was found that the science used to convict him was incorrect or how about the 16 prisoners on death row in Illinois that were found not to have committed the murders they were convicted of by DNA. I once spent a week in jail and I can only imagine the horror of spending the rest of my life there. Life in prison is the correct punishment.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Saturday, July 9, 2011 9:53:26 AM
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I disagree with the death penalty as well.

However, as in the case of Ratko Miladic-- whom HWN has described so well--I don't even think a word exists that can expresses the loathsome intensity of my feelings for this revoltingly, repellent human being.

Where is the justice for those he tortured and killed? There is none.

What can undo what he has done? Nothing.

What does society do with a person such as this?
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, July 9, 2011 5:31:25 PM

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Not one of the civilised Western democracies have death penalty,
for one simple reason:
not one of the courts is 100% accurate.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
jimmer
Posted: Saturday, July 9, 2011 6:08:32 PM
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I also agree with the death penalty, however, there must be no doubt, it must be premeditated, not a lovers quarrel. Any second offence (MURDER) automatic death penalty.
In Canada a prime example would be Clifford Olsen who killed a number of children in BC and sits in prison under protection from the other prisoners and he applies for parole whenever he is allowed. If he ever gets it, more children will die.
The death penalty cannot be taken lightly, however, I truly believe there is a call for this punishment.
Seeker
Posted: Sunday, July 10, 2011 12:28:50 PM
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I disagree with the death penalty. As has been said previously, too many times errors have been made.
baalanis
Posted: Sunday, July 10, 2011 1:11:31 PM

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Boo hoo!
i can hear the equivocal chord now.

We can debate the fallibility of the "justice" system ALl day.

What about those caught (sometimes literally)red handed?


Motives like passion, greed and rage etc. etc. are NOT extenuates.
Children act out in fits.
Regret is to be measured how?

Soldiers that can't realize where the front lines are, are NOT honorable. I know of Vietnam vets that have burnt villages. I know a Vietnam river rat that watched forty men die throughout his tours. I know an Afghan vet that killed a child and now all he wants to do is eat Opie. I know an Iraq vet that was blown up three times and came home to empty bank accounts because of an unfaithful wife. Though the violence that was instilled in them and/or the horrible things they've seen or done make them want to kill themselves, wives, ex-wives, abusive brother in law or the last idiot that pissed them off; they know where the front lines are and they uphold their oath.






Guess what someone that has committed murder probably did in prison today,,, woke up under a roof, masturbated, ate (better than some citizens that live below the poverty line), showered, read a few chapters from a book, conversed with other inmates (laughed, joked, exchanged memorable tales), and is now watching Nancy Grace,,,

Guess what their victim did today?


































NOTHING. They're dead.
baalanis
Posted: Sunday, July 10, 2011 1:13:05 PM

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ezfreemann wrote:
why should a country be allowed to break its own laws?


As soon as laws are necessary for men, they are no longer fit for freedom.
-Pythagoras
memphis jailer
Posted: Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:13:32 PM

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i've seen cases for and against ... should a person lose their life over a murder that was committed in an instant ... no ... not unless they plan it ... especially if they repeat the offense ... a serial rapist, murderer, kidnapper will continue to committ these crimes ...

personally i believe they should be put to death ... why should our tax dollars support their lives?

to those that want to keep people alive, that costs money ... let it come out of YOUR pocket .... i'd rather my taxes support education, or state parks in need of funding ... it doesn't take much to keep someone alive ... but it also doesn't take much money to keep up a park or the ranger's pay to patrol the park ... it also doesn't cost much money to support a kid trying to go to college ... let my tax money buy him a computer or books for school instead of an inmate on death row's meal or his general needs (uniform, lights, or cable bill) ... let my tax money fix some of the roads that are in need of fixing or give a tax break to mom and pop stores struggling while larger businesses who actually receive tax break flourish .... i'm just saying i don't want my money supporting a p o s individual that couldn't conform to our laws

your signature is silly!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:31:42 PM

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Does the death penalty in some American states help preventing crimes?
Or in China, Iran, Indonesia...?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
memphis jailer
Posted: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:53:39 PM

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@jj ... i'm leaning more towards no .... only because most criminals don't think about getting caught

if we sentenced more to death and carried the execution out in a somewhat timely manner it might be a deterrant ...

i'm all for putting executions on t.v. and selling tickets to the events .... they can choose their own method (minus the injection and gas chamber because it costs a bit too much) ... put it on pay per view for $40, sell tickets for $30 or so along with advertising .... that's revenue right there Applause who cares if it's at some lowlife's expense? put that in the budget for schools or offer grants to help pay for college for underprivledged kids ... at least they can do that much right?

your signature is silly!
baalanis
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 6:01:48 PM

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memphis jailer wrote:
in an instant ...

what does that even mean?
everything happens en instances.



memphis jailer wrote:
let my tax money buy him a computer or books for school instead of an inmate on death row's meal or his general needs (uniform, lights, or cable bill)


since when did television become a "need?"


memphis jailer wrote:
i'm just saying i don't want my money supporting a p o s individual that couldn't conform to our laws


this is about more than conformity,,, it's about thievery


Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Does the death penalty in some American states help preventing crimes?
Or in China, Iran, Indonesia...?

for some, it is more about divesting the life force from one human being that took it upon himself to eliminate the life force from (an)other human being(s) without consent

the potentials of prevention is controversial

the fact that a murderer is off the streets and can no longer enjoy their own livelihood is fact



memphis jailer wrote:
i'm all for putting executions on t.v. and selling tickets to the events .... they can choose their own method (minus the injection and gas chamber because it costs a bit too much) ... put it on pay per view for $40, sell tickets for $30 or so along with advertising .... that's revenue right there Applause who cares if it's at some lowlife's expense? put that in the budget for schools or offer grants to help pay for college for underprivledged kids ... at least they can do that much right?


Sick
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 6:05:32 PM

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Doesn't the life sentence make the same?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
baalanis
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 6:44:42 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Doesn't the life sentence make the same?

no.


being alive is in no way analogous to being dead.


dahmer was sentenced to over a dozen life terms.
before he was 'born again,' he would partake in sex acts and drug use.

why should he be allowed to ejaculate into another man's body while over a dozen people were dead by his hand.







instead of people asking me why someone that walks into a mall and starts shooting people should be put down; let me ask them why that same person should be allowed to watch 'Comedy Central,' masturbate, eat decent food, correspond with the outside world, go for morning jogs in the yard, etc. etc.



i am talking about the people that have been caught red handed. the jared laughners (spelling?) of this world.

forget the deterrent debates

forget the cliches about eyes

study their minds
abcxyz
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:39:48 PM

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memphis jailer wrote:
@jj ... i'm leaning more towards no .... only because most criminals don't think about getting caught

if we sentenced more to death and carried the execution out in a somewhat timely manner it might be a deterrant ...

i'm all for putting executions on t.v. and selling tickets to the events .... they can choose their own method (minus the injection and gas chamber because it costs a bit too much) ... put it on pay per view for $40, sell tickets for $30 or so along with advertising .... that's revenue right there Applause who cares if it's at some lowlife's expense? put that in the budget for schools or offer grants to help pay for college for underprivledged kids ... at least they can do that much right?


Well, I am against death penalty as it is irreversible, as others said. I would not have a problem with a serial rapist or murderer getting killed, but I can't think of a way that would ascertain the suspect's guilt beyond all doubts.

That said, I'm not firm on my stand, as I cannot think of a strong reversible punishment that will work as good a deterrent as the death penalty.

Keeping criminals alive in jail is probably not a great loss for the government. Doesn't your country have penal labour?

As for making snuff videos of executions, I'm strongly against it as it would help make people more immune to others' suffering. Maybe a jury comprising of death porn lovers will send someone to the chair just because it would be fun to watch him burn, who knows?

In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
memphis jailer
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:07:45 PM

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study their minds to find out what? why they did it? ... to find out he thought he could one: get away with it, two: couldn't stand a certain situation, or three: just wanted to because he heard voices .... there are countless reasons of why things happen but does it make a difference? ... i think not .... what are you gonna do develop a drug to make that part of the brain inactive? nope ... are you gonna find out what exactly goes on in the brain when things like that happen to realize that it's something that cannot be controlled ... to waste money on research .... seriously .... what is more research gonna do?

i did write earlier about the inmates cable bill ... well it is unfortunate ... but some institutions have cable

and i did write ... in an instant ... i meant that it wasn't planned .... he/she didn't think about killing as an option

but .... writing this made me think about another incident ...

about two years ago my cousin's(through marriage) sister decided that she was going to leave her huband (i'm not exactly sure of the circumstances, but i believe physical abuse and lack of getting a job were among the reasons) ... she told him that when she got home he needed to pack up and move out of the home that she had paid for ... well ... the guy decided to grab a loaded weapon and wait for her .... she came in the house and went to the bedroom where an argument insued ... the guy pulled the weapon and shot her 3 times in the head with her (not his the father was dead from an accident) children in another room .... now the bastard is locked up and living it up ... you can read his facebook page .... a current affair did a story on him called the facebook killer ... he posted things like soaking up some rays and thinking about playing volleyball later ...

yea ...

i'd rather just stick him with a needle and hope it gets infected lol

your signature is silly!
memphis jailer
Posted: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:13:25 PM

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@ abc .... our system USED to have labor involved .... now everything is catered ... some inmates can work ... but work is limited .... certain places used to farm their own food, raise their own livestock, and maintain their own property ... now it's all bought and outsourced .... the money used to run prisons and penetentaries is recieved from the government from where? ... our taxes

your signature is silly!
abcxyz
Posted: Saturday, July 16, 2011 8:58:58 AM

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So, more arrests and convictions=more profit eh? I think this system can make certain corrupt state-assigned defence attorneys more interested in plea bargain than fighting the case, corrupt judges to set bail amount so high that the defendant won't be able to pay, and the police eager to arrest. Penal labour should re-enter the US prison, I think. Anyway that's off-topic.

In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
baalanis
Posted: Saturday, July 16, 2011 3:26:01 PM

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memphis jailer wrote:
study their minds to find out what? why they did it? ... to find out he thought he could one: get away with it, two: couldn't stand a certain situation, or three: just wanted to because he heard voices .... there are countless reasons of why things happen but does it make a difference? ... i think not ....

what are you gonna do develop a drug to make that part of the brain inactive? nope ... are you gonna find out what exactly goes on in the brain when things like that happen to realize that it's something that cannot be controlled ... to waste money on research .... seriously .... what is more research gonna do?



I am concerned for the progress of neurology more than i am for vain attempts at extenuation. Murders like the one you mention later in your post are the types of cases i believe should be considered punishable by death.

memphis jailer wrote:
and i did write ... in an instant ... i meant that it wasn't planned .... he/she didn't think about killing as an option


I don't know. I am just not sure that we should send a message to the rest of society that motives for murder are debatable and that we would not defend ourselves by ensuring the end of a murderer's existence.

Murder is murder, not self defense.
Those that would split hairs of that issue need to realize that they are all on the same head.

Geeman
Posted: Saturday, July 16, 2011 8:03:19 PM

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The death penalty issue is a problem.... First off, I have to say that the apparent number of false convictions in the U.S. should give anyone with a sense of justice that isn't completeloy out of kilter pause. What greater injustice could there be than to kill someone for a crime they didn't commit? I suppose there are worse forms of punishement (a la the Spanish Inquisition or some such historical movement) but in modern life the possibility of putting someone to death for something they didn't do has to be the worst systematically applied punishment.

However, I don't think that means we should do away entirely with the death penalty. Justice does seem to require it. Personally, I find no more comfort in the idea that the state houses, feeds, treats medically, educates and entertains someone for the rest of his/er life than I find in the state putting them to death. Besides, in a society that loves freedom is the moral stance that says it is wrong for the state to kill really all that much superior to one that suggests it is OK for the state to incarcerate for life? I find the distinction thin and more than a little dodgy.

It's really the finality that is at issue. In the absence of incontrovertable proof, the death penalty is difficult to support. That's not to say we can't imprison for life (or longer...) those who are convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, but the death penalty should be reserved for a higher standard than doubt.

...and it seems to me that the death penalty is something that should be beyond plea bargaining. Life and death shouldn't be something that people can use as part of the ante up process of the legal system (which is how it often works in jury selection of murder trials.) Pleading guilty shouldn't allow someone who committed a crime worthy of death to actually avoid that penalty. One is either guilty of such a crime or not, and the idea that the penalty for a crime that could result in the death penalty being reduced for some consideration having to do with the efficiency of court proceedings seems to me to be missing the point entirely.
intelfam
Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:06:29 AM

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Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing is wrong?



"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:17:02 AM

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Intel asked: Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing is wrong?


My reply. Regardless of whether one is in agreement or otherwise with the death penalty, the premise

that it is to show killing is wrong is only part of the reason for the death penalty. Everybody knows

it is wrong, what is being empazised by the punishment is the gravity of the act outside law... not

merely that it is wrong... ones inner self knows that.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Geeman
Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2011 2:52:54 PM

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intelfam wrote:

Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing is wrong?

Killing isn't wrong. There are any number of perfectly good reasons to kill people. War, self-defense, defense of others, euthanasia, accidents, childbirth, and even abortion (in some people's views) are justified killings of humans, as is execution by the state.

MURDER is the unlawful killing of a human being, and people are sometimes killed for particularly harsh murders.

If one is unable to distinguish between killing and murder then using the same logic:

Arrest = Kidnapping
Imprisonment = slavery
Surgery = Battery
Taxes = Grand Larceny
intelfam
Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 8:05:06 AM

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Geeman wrote:
intelfam wrote:

Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing is wrong?

Killing isn't wrong. There are any number of perfectly good reasons to kill people. War, self-defense, defense of others, euthanasia, accidents, childbirth, and even abortion (in some people's views) are justified killings of humans, as is execution by the state.

MURDER is the unlawful killing of a human being, and people are sometimes killed for particularly harsh murders.

If one is unable to distinguish between killing and murder then using the same logic:

Arrest = Kidnapping
Imprisonment = slavery
Surgery = Battery
Taxes = Grand Larceny


I am unsure of your assumptions Geeman.
I would hazard that our choice of when killing (or anything else) is right and wrong and of the seriousness of any offence are based on quite a number of historical things linked to the churches signing up to temporal power and endorsing what the rulers wanted.
Just as an example, the use of capital punishment was not a given in pre-Norman UK. There were many lesser ways of dealing with killing and, only when they were exhausted, was vengeance allowed. The Normans themselves had a tendency to hang only those whose killing of others threatened the rule of the lord or king. Once the value of a person's labour became low enough (by population increase) the churches sold out further on their christian principles, and sanctioned the use of capital punishment further down the tariff and invented the concept of the just war.
As you say murder is defined as unlawful killing, but the law itself is subject to change. As you point out abortion is, to some, unlawful killing - but that begs the question on who makes the laws. I cannot see it as unlawful under our present codes. But others would argue for a higher authority - which is exactly what the churches did in inventing the just war principle.

I threw the comment in to perhaps add to the debate in terms of a "moral" question and did not intend that we broadened it to other offences. I am sorry to have hijacked the topic in that way.


"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
Bashou
Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:26:56 AM

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Those for death penalty, could you execute criminals? How would you feel after that? I'm not trying to make a challenge here, I'm curious. I wouldn't be able to kill anybody, I wouldn't be able to calm my sense of guilt by saying I did something good for innocent people, consequently I cannot bear the idea of asking someone else to do that for me and others, even if he/she is willing to...
pedro
Posted: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:52:01 AM

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It is interesting that in our country, which abandoned the death penalty in 1969 for murder (I think treason lasted longer), people are actively pursuing the legalisation of euthanasia (unsuccessfully to date), whilst a multiple child rapist and killer (Ian Brady) is being force fed in prison to prevent him committing suicide by starvation.

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
antonio
Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:13:05 AM

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Agree.

You can do anything, but not everything. —David Allen
Geeman
Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:31:45 AM

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intelfam wrote:

I am unsure of your assumptions Geeman.
I would hazard that our choice of when killing (or anything else) is right and wrong and of the seriousness of any offence are based on quite a number of historical things linked to the churches signing up to temporal power and endorsing what the rulers wanted.
Just as an example, the use of capital punishment was not a given in pre-Norman UK. There were many lesser ways of dealing with killing and, only when they were exhausted, was vengeance allowed. The Normans themselves had a tendency to hang only those whose killing of others threatened the rule of the lord or king. Once the value of a person's labour became low enough (by population increase) the churches sold out further on their christian principles, and sanctioned the use of capital punishment further down the tariff and invented the concept of the just war.
As you say murder is defined as unlawful killing, but the law itself is subject to change. As you point out abortion is, to some, unlawful killing - but that begs the question on who makes the laws. I cannot see it as unlawful under our present codes. But others would argue for a higher authority - which is exactly what the churches did in inventing the just war principle.

I threw the comment in to perhaps add to the debate in terms of a "moral" question and did not intend that we broadened it to other offences. I am sorry to have hijacked the topic in that way.

Well, my comments were in response to the question "Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing is wrong?" and, thus, abstracted and generalized. But I do think the point remains valid. Thousands of people are going to be coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan in the next few years, very few of whom will go on trial for murder. Abortions are debated by some... but for the most part that particular issue has been settled in the U.S., though it does seem to get rehashed regularly....

In short, killing in and of itself isn't wrong. We differentiate between different types of killing. I would make a distinction between killing a chicken for food and someone coming into my house and wringing my parrot's neck for no apparent reason. Such distinctions are the basis of law. Without them we live in a system of 0 tolerance in which causality and intent has no merit.
F.D.S.O.
Posted: Monday, August 1, 2011 5:34:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/9/2010
Posts: 64
Neurons: 188
Location: United States-West Memphis AR
M.j. you’re wasting your time with most people. Unless someone has worked in a corrections environment they will never understand how good inmates have it and how much fun they have in jail and prison is even better than county jail. I agree with just about everything u said except it would be very ez to get death if it was up to me. Its people like Jessie Dotson who don’t deserve to live another 20 or 30 years. I read the other day in California it cost 3million dollars to put someone to death mostly from court cost but like u said who pays that bill. WE DO!!!! If they would let me I would do it for free..

"It's not about how much you make, it's about how much you spend." -papaw-
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