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A man wearing skirt Options
Tomahawk71
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 5:58:02 AM

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Hi all,
Is the skirt mentioned below something different from women's skirts?

As senior housemaster of Carne, Fielding wore, in place of the customary academic dress, a wonderful confection of heavy black skirts and legal bib, like a monk in evening dress.
thar
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 6:39:27 AM

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This is not a skirt as an item of clothing.

As it says, it is an item of clothing consisting of skirts - ie long swingy cloth.

Quote:
skirt
(skûrt)
n.
1. The part of a garment, such as a dress or coat, that hangs freely from the waist down.


This is standard 'academic dress', as was worn by schoolmasters in the school in question -

a 'gown' which hangs from the shoulders.




What this is saying is that this master's dress was far more complicated, with skirts - layers of cloth, in a more complicated garment.

eg a priest wears long skirts





But those are very simple. This is 'a confection' - think candy floss (cotton candy)- unnecessarily flouncy - but tastefully done, of course! Whistle Whistle



So put those two together to get a picture of what he wore.

to show what it might be, this is a picture of the school uniform of one English school. Most have changed over the centuries, but this is sort of thing you are starting from:



'Skirts' are sometimes just the bits that flare out at the bottom of something.



eg
skirt on a race car


Tomahawk71
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 7:51:28 AM

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I am speechless, Thar! Thank you!
Applause
thar
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 8:52:45 AM

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Hey, that's my problem, too Whistle
- I know what I want to say but can't express it well in writing. Hence resorting to pictures.
Tomahawk71
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 8:54:49 AM

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thar wrote:
Hey, that's my problem, too Whistle
- I know what I want to say but can't express it well in writing. Hence resorting to pictures.


Then, you must be a "visual" person! Drool
Gary98
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:42:33 AM

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This comes to my mind when you talk about man wearing skirt:

Sybillya
Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2017 12:18:26 PM

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Don't ever call the kilt a "skirt"!!!

It is definitely a masculine garment. Originally it was a large piece of woollen cloth which could be wrapped around as a blanket at night, or folded and wrapped in a different fashion for convenience during the day, and for moving around comfortably. It's warm and comfy to wear. The individual patterns, the tartans, came later.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 4:01:58 AM

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Yes - the 'old' kilt (the 'great kilt') was simply a single length of woolen cloth (about 1.5 metres by 4.5 metres - 5 feet by 15 feet), wrapped around and belted.

It formed what is now known as a kilt, but also had a long second section which could be pulled up and used as a cloak or cloak and hood.

In this picture, it's hanging down at the back. (As usual, click on the picture to hear the music).



In this one, it's used as a cloak.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Romany
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 6:05:17 AM
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On the subject of males and skirts: - dozens of schoolboys in UK have turned up at school wearing skirts, bus drivers in France are going to work in skirts, and various other men in different places have been doing the same!

This is because at many schools and workplaces women can attend wearing short, cool skirts and open shoes, while the men are forced to wear long trousers with socks and lace-up shoes. During the recent 'heat wave' when men and boys were struggling as much as women and girls not to pass out from the heat, males were told specifically they couldn't wear shorts. When they protested that females could wear skirts they were told sarcastically "Well, you can wear a skirt too, if you like."

So they did! Go, guys!!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:10:31 AM

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Yeah! Some good news articles on that.

The Turkish (Ottoman) army traditionally wore skirted tunics, too.




Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Tomahawk71
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:53:40 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Yeah! Some good news articles on that.

The Turkish (Ottoman) army traditionally wore skirted tunics, too.




No, these are not the soldiers of Ottoman army.
They are the soldiers of previous Turkish states.

Ottoman soldiers were like that:
Romany
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:04:57 AM
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Historically, we Celts were the first to wear trousers for centuries when the Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians etc. etc. all wore skirts, tunics, or long robes. Men around the world only really started wearing trousers fairy recently (in historical terms) - but in the Pacific most of them still wear a long piece of cloth like a skirt (but called many different things), as the coolest and most practical.

And, probably because I was brought up that way, I still find a well-built guy wearing a lap-lap (the name this garment is given in Papua New Guinea) very masculine and sexy!
Tomahawk71
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:28:11 AM

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Romany wrote:

Historically, we Celts were the first to wear trousers for centuries when the Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians etc. etc. all wore skirts, tunics, or long robes. Men around the world only really started wearing trousers fairy recently (in historical terms) - but in the Pacific most of them still wear a long piece of cloth like a skirt (but called many different things), as the coolest and most practical.

And, probably because I was brought up that way, I still find a well-built guy wearing a lap-lap (the name this garment is given in Papua New Guinea) very masculine and sexy!


Celts have a city named Turkije, haven't they?
And King Offa issued a coin with Islamic "Tawhid" (Oneness of God statement) on it, didn't he?
Romany
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:53:46 AM
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Tomahawk -

I've not heard of the town you mention - but Offa did have a coin struck with Latin on one side and Arabic on the other. Unfortunately I don't remember any details it's been a long time since I studied the period between the Romans leaving and the French arriving.

It was once believed that nothing much happened during that time and called it The Dark Ages. It was also thought that trade between different countries didn't really take off until after the Normans. Instead, we have learned that there was a lot of sharing of information, education, news, as well as a robust trade and travel routes.

The Byzantine Empire during a lot of that time was very advanced - especially in technology, sciences, mathematics, poetry, hygiene and medicine. And of course they were predominantly Muslim. There seems to have been constant movement between the UK and Europe. And, certainly by Offa's time, marriages were even arranged between the cultures - more as financial transactions, really.

So we don't consider that to be as remarkable now as it was once thought to be. (Since technology has leapt ahead in leaps and bounds it's made such a difference to our knowledge of history, that we are learning tons of stuff we hadn't the least idea of. I find it sooo exciting!)

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:08:56 AM

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Apparently, it was struck in the year 774.



This site gives a couple of guesses as to why he used an Arabic quote.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Gary98
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:35:22 PM

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No offense to anyone who wears kilt. Chinese used to wear clothes that is quite different from what people wear these days:

Tomahawk71
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 2:03:54 PM

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Romany wrote:

Tomahawk -

I've not heard of the town you mention - but Offa did have a coin struck with Latin on one side and Arabic on the other. Unfortunately I don't remember any details it's been a long time since I studied the period between the Romans leaving and the French arriving.

It was once believed that nothing much happened during that time and called it The Dark Ages. It was also thought that trade between different countries didn't really take off until after the Normans. Instead, we have learned that there was a lot of sharing of information, education, news, as well as a robust trade and travel routes.

The Byzantine Empire during a lot of that time was very advanced - especially in technology, sciences, mathematics, poetry, hygiene and medicine. And of course they were predominantly Muslim. There seems to have been constant movement between the UK and Europe. And, certainly by Offa's time, marriages were even arranged between the cultures - more as financial transactions, really.

So we don't consider that to be as remarkable now as it was once thought to be. (Since technology has leapt ahead in leaps and bounds it's made such a difference to our knowledge of history, that we are learning tons of stuff we hadn't the least idea of. I find it sooo exciting!)



Was the Byzantine Empire that built a cathedral called Hagia Sophia a muslim state?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 5:53:10 PM

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This data is from Wiki, so is not 'peer-reviewed research', but fits in with what I've learned before from other sources. You probably know a lot of this as 'local history' for you!

This building (one of the most impressive and beautiful I have ever seen) was built by the Greek Christians in about 537 CE.

Under the Ottoman Empire, it became a mosque in 1453.

*********
The Byzantine Empire started off as a fragment of the Roman Empire (and was really the last surviving part of the Roman Empire). In the fourth century (the beginning of the Dark Ages), Christianity was made legal - up until that point it had been banned.

At the end of the fourth century, Christianity became the state religion.

In the sixth century, much of the empire was still either pagan or belonging to religions considered 'heretical' by the state, and in the seventh century several member-states left the Empire (notably Egypt and Syria) and became totally Muslim.

In around the tenth century, under the Macedonians, Christianity was again ascendant - until the eleventh century when it reversed again.

During the twelfth and thirteenth centuries it was a mess!

Roman Catholic Crusaders, Greek/Byzantine Christians and the Muslim Seljuk Turks (who developed into the Ottoman Empire) all wanted these lands, and Constantinople was besieged and/or captured several times by different factions.
Towards the end of the 'Dark Ages', the Ottoman Empire took over.

***********
So . . .

Hagia Sophia was built in the sixth century.
At that time, the official state church was Christian (Greek Orthodox), but this did not account for the majority of people in the Empire.

The coin was struck in 774.
At that time much of what had been, or what was still considered to be, "Byzantium" was Muslim.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 6:00:17 PM
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Tomahawk71 wrote:
Romany wrote:

Tomahawk -

I've not heard of the town you mention - but Offa did have a coin struck with Latin on one side and Arabic on the other. Unfortunately I don't remember any details it's been a long time since I studied the period between the Romans leaving and the French arriving.

It was once believed that nothing much happened during that time and called it The Dark Ages. It was also thought that trade between different countries didn't really take off until after the Normans. Instead, we have learned that there was a lot of sharing of information, education, news, as well as a robust trade and travel routes.

The Byzantine Empire during a lot of that time was very advanced - especially in technology, sciences, mathematics, poetry, hygiene and medicine. And of course they were predominantly Muslim. There seems to have been constant movement between the UK and Europe. And, certainly by Offa's time, marriages were even arranged between the cultures - more as financial transactions, really.

So we don't consider that to be as remarkable now as it was once thought to be. (Since technology has leapt ahead in leaps and bounds it's made such a difference to our knowledge of history, that we are learning tons of stuff we hadn't the least idea of. I find it sooo exciting!)



Was the Byzantine Empire that built a cathedral called Hagia Sophia a muslim state?


No it was a Christian state, but I take your point, a lot of advances took place in the Muslim world scholars such as Omar Khayyam, who worked on equations, and Al-Khwarizmi who studied Algorithms were vital to increasing our understanding of Maths.



I lack the imagination for a witty signature.
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