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When to use capital letters for the first letter of a word?[Punctuation] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 6:21:42 PM

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Hi,

As far as I know that I should use capital letters for the first letter of:
1- the first word in a sentence, for example, He studies English.
2- people's names: Nora
3- titles: Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor
4- cities and countries: Turkey, Beijing
5- languages: English
6- the name of schools, college, and companies, International College, Microsoft
7- the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun


However, while googling for job title 'Physiotherapy', I found it was capitalized in its first letter, although it is not the first word in a sentence, as quoted below:

Quote:

Physiotherapy is a health profession concerned with helping to restore physical well-being to people who are suffering from an injury, pain or disability. ... The Chartered Physiotherapist also utilises prescriptive exercise as a rehabilitative tool to help patients achieve their full potential.


Another googling result:
Quote:
Cure By Nature, London best of complementary medicine
difference between an Osteopath and a Physiotherapist



As a result, I am wondering if all job titles/specialities must be capitalized in their first letters or not wherever they are placed. Or those two quotes above have punctuation mistakes? If not, then I must say:
A Pathologist is a physician who studies body fluids and tissues, helps your primary care doctor make a diagnosis about your health or any medical problems you have, and uses laboratory tests to monitor the health of patients with chronic conditions.

An Orthopedic surgeon is the doctor who deals mainly with the hip area. They also focus on the spine area.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
tunaafi
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 7:09:02 PM

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I see no reason for any of the initial capitals you highlighted.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 9:26:24 PM

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tunaafi wrote:
I see no reason for any of the initial capitals you highlighted.

Thanks a lot, tunaafi

Personally, I completely agree with you. However, bear in mind that those initials capitals I highlighted in the two quotes were quoted from internet websites. I only capitalized the ones in the bottom of my thread due to seeing those ones being capitalized.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
NKM
Posted: Friday, May 19, 2017 9:57:32 PM

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I would add "names of oceans, seas, rivers, planets, stars and constellations" to the list. Sometimes, too, we capitalize "Nature" and "Heaven".

But "osteopath" and "physiotherapist"? I don't see why, except when actually used as official job titles. (Similar to "Chief Surgeon", for example.)

A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 6:54:37 AM

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NKM wrote:

But "osteopath" and "physiotherapist"? I don't see why, except when actually used as official job titles. (Similar to "Chief Surgeon", for example.)


Thanks a lot, NKM
Could you possibly give me some examples of official job titles which should be capitalized in their first letters?
A Chief Surgeon
A General Surgeon
A General Practitioner
A General Physician.
The Chartered Physiotherapist


Also, I know the titles: "Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor" must be capitalized in their first letters. However, if I want to let Professor be a singular, then I will need to say 'A Professor'/ A Doctor', where 'A' is capitalized due to the the first word in a sentence.
Full name: John Gray
Personal Title: A Doctor/A Professor
Job titles: A professor of Mathematics.

Besides, I think that "the name of schools, college, and companies, such as International College, Microsoft" must be capitalized in their first letters.
Also, I was told that in British English it is normal to capitalise degree subjects if the full name of the title is used. For example,

A Bachelor of Medicine degree, a Bachelor of Surgery degree, a Master of Medicine degree, a Master of Surgery degree, a Doctorate of Medicine degree, and a Doctorate of Surgery degree.

However, I don't know if I can capitalize the initial letters of the words 'Bachelor/Master/Doctor/Medicine/Surgery' in a Bachelor or Medicine and Surgery degree. A Bachelor degree. A Master degree. A Doctor degree. A Medicine degree. A Surgery degree.

However, I think in "A Bachelor degree/ A Master degree/A Doctor degree/A Medicine degree/ A Surgery degree' would be incorrect to capitalise the first letters of 'Bachelor, Master, Doctor, Medicine, Surgery' since degree subjects are not present.

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tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 8:32:41 AM

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A cooperator wrote:

Full name: John Gray
Personal Title: A Doctor/A Professor
Job titles: A professor of Mathematics.


You would not use the indefinite article in a form such as that.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 1:07:40 PM

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Quote:
Could you possibly give me some examples of official job titles which should be capitalized in their first letters?

It often depends on the sentence - are you saying the name of the specific post? (which would have capitals) or a job description? (which would not)

What is your job?
I'm the President of the United States.
(a title)
I'm the President of General Motors. (a title)
I'm a company president. (a job description)
I'm a president. (a job description)
I'm the Professor of Nineteenth Century Architecture. (a title)
I'm a university professor. (a job description)
I'm a professor. (a job description)

Quote:
However, I think in "A Bachelor degree/ A Master degree/A Doctor degree/A Medicine degree/ A Surgery degree' would be incorrect to capitalise the first letters of 'Bachelor, Master, Doctor, Medicine, Surgery' since degree subjects are not present.

There does not seem to be a rule.
I agree with you that it seems to make sense to use small letters - but they are normally written as:
A bachelor's degree, a baccalaureate, a master's, a master's degree, a doctorate, a medical degree, a degree in surgery or a surgical degree.
Some people use capitals and others don't.

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A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 4:30:13 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Quote:
Could you possibly give me some examples of official job titles which should be capitalized in their first letters?

It often depends on the sentence - are you saying the name of the specific post? (which would have capitals) or a job description? (which would not)

What is your job?
I'm the President of the United States.
(a title)
I'm the President of General Motors. (a title)
I'm a company president. (a job description)
I'm a president. (a job description)
I'm the Professor of Nineteenth Century Architecture. (a title)
I'm a university professor. (a job description)
I'm a professor. (a job description)

Quote:
However, I think in "A Bachelor degree/ A Master degree/A Doctor degree/A Medicine degree/ A Surgery degree' would be incorrect to capitalise the first letters of 'Bachelor, Master, Doctor, Medicine, Surgery' since degree subjects are not present.

There does not seem to be a rule.
I agree with you that it seems to make sense to use small letters - but they are normally written as:
A bachelor's degree, a baccalaureate, a master's, a master's degree, a doctorate, a medical degree, a degree in surgery or a surgical degree.
Some people use capitals and others don't.



Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker,
As a comprehensive rule, I can say that I should use capital letters for the first letter of:
1- the first word in a sentence, for example, He studies English.
2- people's names: Nora
3- titles: Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor
4- cities and countries: Turkey, Beijing
5- languages: English
6- the names of schools, colleges, and companies, International College, Microsoft
7- the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun
8- The names of religions , A majority of the population (90%) are Muslims.
9- The names of oceans, seas, rivers, planets, stars and constellations" to the list. Sometimes, too, we capitalize "Nature" and "Heaven".
10- The names of Months, and Days.
11- The names of full degrees, a Bachelor of Science, a Master of Computer Science.
12- The names of specialities, Computer Science, Civil Engineering.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:31:41 PM

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Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of his precious time out to reply to my points below?


As a comprehensive rule, I can say that I should use capital letters for the first letter of:
1- the first word in a sentence, for example, He studies English.
2- people's names: Nora
3- titles: Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor
4- cities and countries: Turkey, Beijing
5- languages: English
6- the names of schools, colleges, and companies, International College, Microsoft
7- the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun
8- The names of religions , A majority of the population (90%) are Muslims.
9- The names of oceans, seas, rivers, planets, stars and constellations" to the list. Sometimes, too, we capitalize "Nature" and "Heaven".
10- The names of Months, and Days.
11- The names of full degrees, a Bachelor of Science, a Master of Computer Science.
12- The names of specialities, Computer Science, Civil Engineering.



However, these three points below have capitalization although they are not included in those rules above,
Why do you think 'Authenticated Copy' and 'Certified True Copy' must be capitalized in their first letters?


Also, Why only 'Engineer' is capitalized in 'Your uncle is a petroleum Engineer with Canadian Nexen at Thaba exploring port, Mukalla, Yemen.'

Also, why do you think that 'University' is capitalized in 'There is no online application. You have to send the complete application (DAAD form as well as University form plus all required documents) to the University address by post service'


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:04:31 AM
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A few additions that I can think of:

A cooperator wrote:
As a comprehensive rule, I can say that I should use capital letters for the first letter of:
1- the first word in a sentence, for example, He studies English.
2- people's names: Nora
3- titles: Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor
4- cities and countries: Turkey, Beijing
5- languages: English
6- the names of schools, colleges, and companies, International College, Microsoft and other specific buildings/structures and institutions, e.g. the White House, the Golden Gate Bridge, City Hall, the Houses of Parliament, the Football Association, the Constitution
7- the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun
8- The names of religions , A majority of the population (90%) are Muslims. Islam, Christianity, the Church of England etc.
9- The names of oceans, seas, rivers, planets, stars and constellations" to the list. And other geographical features, e.g. Mount Everest, the Cape of Good Hope, the North Pole. Sometimes, too, we capitalize "Nature" and "Heaven". And similar words, such as "Fate", "Hell", "Providence"
10- The names of Months, and Days. (but not the actual words "months" and "days")
11- The names of full degrees, a Bachelor of Science, a Master of Computer Science.
12- The names of specialities, Computer Science, Civil Engineering. These are often not capitalized.


However, these three points below have capitalization although they are not included in those rules above,
Why do you think 'Authenticated Copy' and 'Certified True Copy' must be capitalized in their first letters? It is not normal to capitalize these. They are occasionally capitalized for emphasis.

Also, Why only 'Engineer' is capitalized in 'Your uncle is a petroleum Engineer with Canadian Nexen at Thaba exploring port, Mukalla, Yemen.' This is incorrect. If "Petroleum Engineer" is an official job title, both words should be capitalized; otherwise, neither should be.

Also, why do you think that 'University' is capitalized in 'There is no online application. You have to send the complete application (DAAD form as well as University form plus all required documents) to the University address by post service' It is not necessary to capitalize "university". It has probably been capitalized here for emphasis.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2018 6:39:53 AM

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Audiendus wrote:

11- The names of full degrees, a Bachelor of Science, a Master of Computer Science.
12- The names of specialities, Computer Science, Civil Engineering. These are often not capitalized.


Thank you so much indeed,
Audiendus,

You think specialities are not captialized unless they are named within the names of departments or colleges, such as the College of Civil Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science.
That means we cannot say 'a Civil Engineer'




As Tunaafi mentioned "a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree" in a thread of mine. S/he didn't captalise the first letter of 'degree'.


Also, as Drag0nspeaker said, in the same other thread of mine, the following:

Quote:
When you state the whole name of a degree, it usually has capital letters - Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery.

When you are using the word normally, it is really a questionable point. Some people use capitals, some don't - He has a bachelor's degree in maths. The minimum qualification to practise medicine is a Bachelor's degree. - either one will do.




Having read "When you state the whole name of a degree, it usually has capital letters", I'd wonder if telling "When you state the whole name of a degree" includes the actual word 'degree' or not. So, I'll need to captalize the first letter of 'degree' as well. Anyway, I really don't see any need to write 'degree' in this first phrasing. However, it is necessary to be written in the second phrasing below.


a Bachelor of Computer Science.
a Bachelor of Computer Science Degree.

a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery.
a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery Degree.


If I am going to rephrase them as the following, then the whole name of a degree is still used here, and it must be captalised or there is no longer a whole name of a degree used and therefore no need to captalise any words.

a Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science.
a Bachelor's Degree in Medicine and Surgery.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2018 7:14:37 PM

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Would you be so kind as to address those two points of mine posted two days ago?

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A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 8:10:52 AM

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Hi Everyone!
Could anyone take some of their precious time out to address these points below?



Firstly:

You think specialities are not captialized unless they are named within the names of departments or colleges, such as the College of Civil Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science.
That means we cannot say 'a Civil Engineer'



Secondly:
As Tunaafi mentioned "a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree" in a thread of mine. S/he didn't captalise the first letter of 'degree'.


Also, as Drag0nspeaker said, in the same other thread of mine, the following:

Quote:
When you state the whole name of a degree, it usually has capital letters - Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery.

When you are using the word normally, it is really a questionable point. Some people use capitals, some don't - He has a bachelor's degree in maths. The minimum qualification to practise medicine is a Bachelor's degree. - either one will do.




Having read "When you state the whole name of a degree, it usually has capital letters", I'd wonder if telling "When you state the whole name of a degree" includes the actual word 'degree' or not. So, I'll need to captalize the first letter of 'degree' as well. Anyway, I really don't see any need to write 'degree' in this first phrasing. However, it is necessary to be written in the second phrasing below.


a Bachelor of Computer Science.
a Bachelor of Computer Science Degree.

a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery.
a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery Degree.


If I am going to rephrase them as the following, then the whole name of a degree is still used here, and it must be captalised or there is no longer a whole name of a degree used and therefore no need to captalise any words.

a Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science.
a Bachelor's Degree in Medicine and Surgery.


Finally: Why do I always see 'Master' is capitalized here?
a one-year taught Master’s degree programme
My short-term goals include completion of a Master's degree by 2021

Also, you think that 'island' must be captalized in 'Socotra Island'?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 5:10:54 AM

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Hi,
Could anyone please take some of his precious time out to address those points of mine posted before and this one below?
Today I also see that 'Computer Science' is capitalized here although there is no name of a college, department, or a full name degree(such as a Master's Degree in Computer Science).
Not only do Computer Science students study the theory of software and software systems, they also learn how to design, develop, and apply such technologies, becoming top-class problem-solvers in the process.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 5:16:23 AM

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Repeated

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 6:22:45 AM

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Hi!
I've been away for a few days.

Concerning the word "degree" - the name of the degree is usually capitalised - this is the set of words which make up the "letters after your name".

The Bachelor of Arts degree allows you to be called "John Smith BA" - the "B" in "Bachelor" and the "A" in "Arts" are capitalised usually. There is no "D" in "BA", so 'degree' is not capitalised.

I don't know the modern usage, but for sciences, it used to be written "John Smith BSc" - "Bachelor of Science" - not "BSC" - there is no word with a capital "c".

These are not RULES. They are just conventions which most people use - you will find them in style-guides.
Many of the post titles/course titles you mention are often capitalised - but there's no RULE to say they should be.
It's impossible to be specific for every individual title/post name/job description/etc. you will find around any one college or university.
Even if one could do that, it will be different at a different college or university.

*****************
There is no rule which says that you cannot write "I am a Civil Engineer" - if you think so much of your job that you want to use capital letters, you can do. But there's no rule saying that you HAVE to either.

*************
Some people may like computer science so much that they want to make it important - or they may consider "Computer Science" to be the title of a field of study.
They would say "He has a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science".
Others may just consider computer science to be the name of a bunch of data of the same importance as 'cooking simple meals at home'. They would probably use small letters.
"John has a BSc and studied computer science."
"Fred studied how to cook simple meals at home."


*******************
"Master's" is part of the degree title.

An MA is a Master of Arts degree. "M" for "Master" and "A" for "Arts".
"My Master's degree" is a short way of saying "My Master of Arts degree" or "My Master of Sciences degree".

*****************
Is the name of the island "Socotra Island"? I don't know. I've never heard of it.
If the name of the island is Socotra, then it would appear in a sentence like this.
"I'm going to Socotra next week."
If the name is "Socotra Island", then it would appear like this.
"I'm going to Socotra Island next week."

There are some islands which have 'Isle' or 'Island' as part of their names:
The Isle of Man
The Isle of Wight
Burnt Island
Ellis Island

Others don't use the word
Anglesey is an island.
Tasmania is an island.

*************
If the writer considers "Computer Science" to be the name of the course of study or a whole field of study, then they might well write it with capitals - but they might not.
Another writer may consider "computer science" to be a whole body of data.

I studied the course called "Computer Science" - I was a Computer Science student.
I studied the data on computer science during my course in Information Technology. At that point I was a computer science student.

**************
The real rules of capitals are these:
The first word of a sentence is capitalised.
The names or titles of things (anything - people, places, buildings, jobs, institutions, religions, courses, fields of study, planets - anything) are capitalised. This includes "I" when naming yourself.

Rather than ask about the rules for the rest, it would probably be easier for you if you tried to understand the reasons behind the way people use capitalisation.

Capital letters mark something as having some importance, generally.
They separate a word out from the rest of the sentence and make it 'special'.

If someone considers something to be 'special', then they may well capitalise it.

Overuse of capitals means that they are no longer special - they're just normal.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 8:47:17 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The Bachelor of Arts degree allows you to be called "John Smith BA" - the "B" in "Bachelor" and the "A" in "Arts" are capitalised usually. There is no "D" in "BA", so 'degree' is not capitalised.


Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker

Now, you made it very very clear why 'degree' mustn't be capitalized in this form for all subjects based on the above:
A Bachelor of Computer Science degree
A Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree
A Master of Computer Science degree
A Master of Medicine and Surgery degree
A Doctorate of Computer Science degree
A Doctorate of Medicine and Surgery degree

However, I still wonder why 'degree' word must still be capitalized if those formations above have been rephrased to read as, I think in both versions, the names of full degrees are present.
A Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science
A Bachelor's Degree in Medicine and Surgery
A Master's Degree in Computer Science
A Master's Degree in Medicine and Surgery

I am still wondering if the names of full degrees are present in all three versions below:
A Bachelor of Computer Science
A bachelor of Computer Science degree
A Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science
A Master of Computer Science
A Master of Computer Science degree
A Master's Degree in Computer Science




Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Is the name of the island "Socotra Island"? I don't know. I've never heard of it.
If the name of the island is Socotra, then it would appear in a sentence like this.
"I'm going to Socotra next week."
If the name is "Socotra Island", then it would appear like this.
"I'm going to Socotra Island next week."


No, the island is named only with 'Socotra' as spelt out. But, the 'island' is actual word. It is a well-known island in Yemen.
The Socotra dragon tree or dragon blood tree, is a dragon tree native to the Socotra archipelago, part of Yemen, located in the Arabian Sea. It is so called due to the red sap that the trees produce





Drag0nspeaker wrote:
If the writer considers "Computer Science" to be the name of the course of study or a whole field of study, then they might well write it with capitals - but they might not.
Another writer may consider "computer science" to be a whole body of data.

I studied the course called "Computer Science" - I was a Computer Science student.
I studied the data on computer science during my course in Information Technology. At that point I was a computer science student.


I can consider this for all subjects regardless of what name is followed after the descriptive words. So, I can say.
I am a Computer Science specialist/ student.
I am a Medicine specialiest/ student.
I am a Telecomms specialiest/ student.
However,
Audiendus wrote:
12- The names of specialities, Computer Science, Civil Engineering. These are often not capitalized.


So, I think that Audiendus meant only to say "Faculty of Computer Science"/ "Department of Computer Science"/ "Computer Science Faculty" /Computer Science Department", Department/ Faculty of Civil Engineering', "Faculty of Medicine, Faculty of Telecomms, ....etc. since they are the names of full schools(the entire name of schools). But, we cannot say "Civil Engineering', 'Computer Science', 'a Computer Science specialist/ student.'/ 'I am a Telecomms specialist/ student/engineer', nor we can say 'Computer Engineeer', 'a Computer Science Specialist', and 'I am a Telecomms Specialist/Engineer'.

As a result, I think some won't agree with capitalizing of the descriptive words "Computer Science/Medicine/Telecomms' since they are NOT modified the names of schools, colleges (That is, there is no departement or college followed). Thus, they will let them be lowercase
I am a computer science specialist/ student.
I am a computer engineer.
I am a medicine specialist/ student.
I am a telecomms specialist/ student/ engineer.



Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The real rules of capitals are these:
The first word of a sentence is capitalised.
The names or titles of things (anything - people, places, buildings, jobs, institutions, religions, courses, fields of study, planets - anything) are capitalised. This includes "I" when naming yourself.

Rather than ask about the rules for the rest, it would probably be easier for you if you tried to understand the reasons behind the way people use capitalisation.

Capital letters mark something as having some importance, generally.
They separate a word out from the rest of the sentence and make it 'special'.

If someone considers something to be 'special', then they may well capitalise it.

Overuse of capitals means that they are no longer special - they're just normal.



I don't think 'Master' here is listed under what is above. So, Why do I always see 'Master' is capitalized here?

.....one-year taught Master’s degree programme.
My short-term goals include completion of a Master's degree by 2021.

However, some didn't capitalize 'master' in "These fully-funded scholarships enable outstanding emerging leaders from all over the world to pursue one-year master’s degrees in any subject at any UK university."





Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 9:20:36 AM

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A cooperator wrote:
However, I still wonder why 'degree' word must still be capitalized . . .


There is no "must".
You still seem to think that there are RULES in all this.

Personally, I would say I was taking a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science (if the title of the course was "Computer Science").
If the title of the course was something like "Information Technology and Computing", I might say that I was taking a Bachelor's degree in computer science.

*********
Thanks for the data on Socotra (and the dragon trees).
So you would normally (in English) say "I'm going to Socotra tomorrow."

If, for some odd reason, you wanted to include the word 'island', you would say "I'm going to Socotra island tomorrow." (or, I would more likely say "I'm going to Socotra, the island, tomorrow.")

************
Yes - Audiendus and I are saying the same thing.
IF it is the NAME of the course (or the NAME of the department), then usually it will be capitalised
The Computer Science Course.
The Department of Computer Science.


If the phrase is simply a description (not a NAME), it is usually not capitalised - but some people do capitalise them, just because they want to.

I study computer science and comparative religion.

***************
"Master" is a title it is one's status in academics or in trades and crafts - one can be a Master of Arts, Master of Sciences, Master Carpenter (making things with wood), a Master Potter (making things with clay).
These trade statuses take many years of work and practise and the "Master" is an earned title.

In Academia, "Master" is similar to "Bachelor".
Someone might write "master's degree' and some might write "Master's degree" - some people might even write "Master's Degree".

There are MANY words (not only "Master") which are sometimes capitalised.
You will never find a complete list.

You will never find RULES for all situations.
They don't exist.
If the writer feels the word has importance and deserves to be capitalised, they will use a capital letter.
If not, they will use a small letter.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 9:52:22 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

************
Yes - Audiendus and I are saying the same thing.
IF it is the NAME of the course (or the NAME of the department), then usually it will be capitalised
The Computer Science Course.
The Department of Computer Science.


If the phrase is simply a description (not a NAME), it is usually not capitalised - but some people do capitalise them, just because they want to.

I study computer science and comparative religion.


Thanks a lot,
Yes, I agree with you there is no "must"
But, I want to be as a perfect English learner as I can.
Some even write 'I', and the proper names with lowercase letters. "i am john.'
Thus, I say 'must' for those things to be done.

So, you, along with Audiendus, can say "Faculty of Computer Science"/ "Department of Computer Science"/ "Computer Science Faculty" /Computer Science Department", Department/ Faculty of Civil Engineering', "Faculty of Medicine, Faculty of Telecomms, ....etc. since they are the names of full schools(the entire name of schools). But, we cannot say "Civil Engineering', 'Computer Science', 'a Computer Science specialist/ student.'/ 'I am a Telecomms specialist/ student/engineer', nor we can say 'Computer Engineeer', 'a Computer Science Specialist', and 'I am a Telecomms Specialist/Engineer'.

However, if there is no NAME of the course or the NAME of the department, they will let them be in lowercases.
I am a computer science specialist/ student.
I am a computer engineer.
I am a medicine specialist/ student.
I am a telecomms specialist/ student/ engineer.



Drag0nspeaker wrote:

***************
"Master" is a title it is one's status in academics or in trades and crafts - one can be a Master of Arts, Master of Sciences, Master Carpenter (making things with wood), a Master Potter (making things with clay).
These trade statuses take many years of work and practise and the "Master" is an earned title.

In Academia, "Master" is similar to "Bachelor".
Someone might write "master's degree' and some might write "Master's degree" - some people might even write "Master's Degree".

There are MANY words (not only "Master") which are sometimes capitalised.
You will never find a complete list.

You will never find RULES for all situations.
They don't exist.
If the writer feels the word has importance and deserves to be capitalised, they will use a capital letter.
If not, they will use a small letter.


Here in (one-year taught Master’s degree programme". and "My short-term goals include completion of a Master's degree by 2021"), I don't see any reasonable reason to let 'Master' be capitalized at all whatever a writer feels since there is no NAME of the course or full degree. It is just 'Master's degree'.

However, in "one can be a Master of Arts, Master of Sciences", "Master of Arts" and "Master of Sciences" are okay to be capitalized since the full degree name is present.

This "Master Carpenter" is strange to be capitalized, but mostly is strange wordings ordering. Isn't 'carpenter' a person who makes and repairs wooden objects and structures?
So, how could 'Master' modify 'carpenter'?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 11:10:48 AM
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A cooperator -

You said: "This "Master Carpenter" is strange to be capitalized, but mostly is strange wordings ordering. Isn't 'carpenter' a person who makes and repairs wooden objects and structures?
So, how could 'Master' modify 'carpenter'?"

Because someone who is at the top of their trade has mastered the discipline required: they are at the top of their field. "Master" puts the person way above any ordinary carpenter, builder or goldsmith. (Or above a Graduate in acadaemia.) One can be a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith etc. while an Old Master is the work of a true master of the art of painting, and so puts their work far out of reach of the ordinary person. As would a house built by a Master Builder or Master Carpenter.

I agree with Drago - learning what a word means, how it's used, what value it has -even it's history - is a far more logical way of understanding the Capital Conundrum. Trying to invent codes or rules where none exist will do little to help unless the person/people you are addressing has access to YOUR list and understands the "rules" you have made up.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, November 1, 2018 11:20:06 AM

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I'm afraid I have to continue stressing that you cannot really say "must", "can't" and words like that when talking about this subject.

There is very little that you MUST do - really just the two things I said before - "the first letter of a sentence" and "names and titles".

There is almost nothing that you CAN'T do.
There are conventions - things which most people normally do - but you could do differently.

*****************
Some people consider subjects or fields of data to be NAMES - so they use capitals.
"I study Computer Sciences at college."

Other people do not feel they have such an importance - they consider that these are just descriptions.
"I study computer sciences at college."

************
When talking about degrees, "master" works in the same way that "bachelor" works. It depends on how the writer feels.
A bachelor’s degree in Computer Science
A Bachelor's degree in Medicine and Surgery
A Master's degree in Computer Science
A master's degree in Medicine and Surgery

Some people like to use capitals.

****************
When used for a trade, it is a very specific qualification given by a guild.
As you say, a carpenter is someone who builds and repairs wooden things.
A carpenter would learn to do this during five or six years as an apprentice, and would no longer be called an apprentice.
After that, they would work another ten, fifteen years - learning more and more of his trade.
At some point, he would be considered able to teach others. At this point, he would be examined - for some trades, they require that a person has to add some NEW knowledge (which no-one ever knew before). If they qualify, they are termed "Master Carpenter".
It's similar to 'Professor', but in a trade, rather than an academic subject.

"Master" as a noun means
a. a workman or craftsman fully qualified to practise his trade and to train others in it
b. (as modifier): master carpenter.
A worker qualified to teach apprentices and carry on the craft independently.

So it can be a modifier as a noun.

However, it can also be an adjective:
eminently skilled: master designer.
Principal or predominant: a master plot.
Highly skilled or proficient: a master thief.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, November 2, 2018 5:13:16 PM

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Thanks to both of you very much indeed for that some of your precious time you've taken out to reply to my questions.

I always tend to capitalize a the NAME of the course or the NAME of the department/college. So, I think that 'the Military Sports College' should be capitalised. But, 'national', I think, shouldn't be capitalised.

When I was thirteen I started training with the Hadramawt National underwater swimming team and entered the Military Sports College of Central Sports Club of the Army.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, November 2, 2018 8:21:50 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
****************
When used for a trade, it is a very specific qualification given by a guild.
As you say, a carpenter is someone who builds and repairs wooden things.
A carpenter would learn to do this during five or six years as an apprentice, and would no longer be called an apprentice.
After that, they would work another ten, fifteen years - learning more and more of his trade.
At some point, he would be considered able to teach others. At this point, he would be examined - for some trades, they require that a person has to add some NEW knowledge (which no-one ever knew before). If they qualify, they are termed "Master Carpenter".
It's similar to 'Professor', but in a trade, rather than an academic subject.

"Master" as a noun means
a. a workman or craftsman fully qualified to practise his trade and to train others in it
b. (as modifier): master carpenter.
A worker qualified to teach apprentices and carry on the craft independently.

So it can be a modifier as a noun.



You mean "Master" can be a modifier usually in compounds, such as 'a Master Carpenter'/'a Master Builder'/ a Master Goldsmith and 'a Master Prison Officer' As a result, each compound noun 'Master Carpenter',.....' are similar to 'Professor'.
If yes, but we can use 'Professor" in salutation(personal titles), for instance, Professor John Gray. Also, we use "Professor" in descriptive
So, we can say 'Master Carpenter John Gray'

Drag0nspeaker wrote:
However, it can also be an adjective:
eminently skilled: master designer.
Principal or predominant: a master plot.
Highly skilled or proficient: a master thief.



Firstly, As Romany stated it clearly "they are at the top of their field. "Master" puts the person way above any ordinary carpenter, builder or goldsmith. (Or above a Graduate in acadaemia.) One can be a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith etc."

Why is the modifier 'master' as a noun, along with the modified word, capitalized, however, the modifier 'master' as an adjective, along with the modified word, isn't capitalized? Then, how can I distinguish between "a Master Designer" and " a master designer", " a Master Thief" and "a master thief ", "a Master Builder" and " a master builder ", " a Master Carpenter " and " a master carpenter ", etc.



I have linked 'Personal titles' and 'job titles' to this thread since I think it is pertinent to the capitalization.

Secondly: in "a Master Builder", "a Master Carpenter", and "a Master Goldsmith", I am thinking of 'Master' is corresponding to / similar to "Head", "Chief", "senior" in "a Head Chef", "a Chief Engineer", "a Senior Engineer" in order. In other words, "Master", "Head", "Chief", and "Senior" all reveal a job level as in No#3 below.
If yes, then what difference is there between 'a Master Carpenter' and 'a Head Carpenter', 'a Chief Carpenter', and 'a Senior Carpenter'?

Thirdly: Please correct me here if I was wrong in the concept of capitalization in 1, 2, and 3.

1- Job titles describing the responsibilities of the position: Executive, Manager, Director, Chief, Supervisor, Professor, etc.

2- Job titles reflecting what the person does on the job: a builder, a carpenter, a goldsmith, a chef, an engineer, an accountant, a housekeeper, a social media specialist, a programmer, a telcomms engineer, a mechanic, a guest services coordinator, a soldier, a police officer, a prison officer, a prison warder(Brit)/a prison guard (Amr), an auditor, an editor etc. It can be said not be capitalized.

3- Job titles revealing both the job level(a modifier as a noun, in bold) and the job responsibilities: a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith, a Master Prison Officer, a Head Chef, a Head Carpenter, a Chief Engineer, a Chief Carpenter, a Senior Engineer, a Senior Carpenter, a Lead Accountant, an Electrical Superintendent, a Marketing Manager, Assistant Professor, a Teaching Assistant, etc.


Finally: I think this can be classified to NO# 2 Job titles reflecting what the person does on the job. (a modifier as an adjective, in bold), there is no job title (there is no NAME of the official), the phrase is simply a description
a master engineer, a civil engineer, a master thief, a police officer, a prison officer, a prison warder(Brit)/a prison guard (Amr), a financial editor, a managing editor, a sports commentator.



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, November 9, 2018 4:27:33 PM

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Hi!
Could anyone take some of their precious time out to address those points of mine posted in my previous post?

Also,
1- why "Yemen's foreign minister" is not capitalized, in "Meanwhile, Yemen's foreign minister said his government is willing to recognise the Houthis as a political entity." However, "the Prime Minister" is capitalised in "Mr Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, I strongly suggest to continue going through the whole investigation of CDN vehicles sold to Saudis."


2- why 'special envoy' is capitalised in "UN Special Envoy to Yemen, Martin Griffiths, said he is hopeful of a new round of talks." But, it isn't in "Also, the special envoy on the crisis of genocide of Rohingyas being persecuted in Myanmar says we need to spend more money there too as well as welcome refugees. And then there's Syria and all the other countries needing help. But there is only so much a country of 35 Million people can do."










Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2018 7:21:03 AM
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Coop -

I think that no-one has responded because we CAN'T help you.

We've said, both in this thread and the other one, that there are no rules (apart from the usual start of a sentence, proper names etc.one learns early in the study of English.) - only preferences or Style Guides at the place one works.

The only answers to "Why was this capitalised?" "Why didn't they capitalise this?" is "Because they wanted to." or "Because they didn't want to."!

It all depends, as Drago keeps saying repeatedly, on what protocol or Style Guide is adopted wherever they work/study.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:56:43 AM

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Would anyone please be so kind as to take out some of their precious time to address these points of mine?

First of all, if capitalization is a matter of preference, then how can I determine if it is a job/post title or it is a description.
I am a Professor of the Head of Computer Science. <=> I am a professor.
I am the Office Manager of General Executive Director
I am a cobbler.
I am an accountant.
I am a security guard.
=============
Other way to represent job titles in conmpnies:
Dr Robert
General Executive Director
Stallion Company

Dr Smith
Head Manager
Stallion Company

Ms Julia
secretary
Stallion Company

Mr John
Chief Marketing Manager
Stallion Company


Mrs Lila
Lead Accountant
Stallion Company


Mr Richard
Senior Accountant
Stallion Company


Miss Soha
accountant
Stallion Company

Dr Adam
telcomms engineer
Stallion Company

Mr Gray
cleaner
Stallion Company
===============
If I am only going to save persons' names, along with their phone numbers, in
contacts into my book address, a person does work as a cobbler as private job, then do I need to type a cobbler in the "job title" field of contact form to be filled in or leave it empty.

=================
Firstly: "a Master Builder", "a Master Carpenter", and "a Master Goldsmith", I am thinking of 'Master' is corresponding to / similar to "Head", "Chief", "senior" in "a Head Chef", "a Chief Engineer", "a Senior Engineer" in order. In other words, "Master", "Head", "Chief", and "Senior" all reveal a job level as in No#3 below.
If yes, then what difference is there between 'a Master Carpenter' and 'a Head Carpenter', 'a Chief Carpenter', and 'a Senior Carpenter'?

Secondly: Please correct me here if I was wrong in the concept of capitalization in 1, 2, and 3.

1- Job titles describing the responsibilities of the position: Executive, Manager, Director, Chief, Supervisor, Professor, etc.

2- Job titles reflecting what the person does on the job: a builder, a carpenter, a goldsmith, a chef, an engineer, an accountant, a housekeeper, a social media specialist, a programmer, a telcomms engineer, a mechanic, a guest services coordinator, a soldier, a police officer, a prison officer, a prison warder(Brit)/a prison guard (Amr), an auditor, an editor etc. It can be said not be capitalized.

3- Job titles revealing both the job level(a modifier as a noun, in bold) and the job responsibilities: a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith, a Master Prison Officer, a Head Chef, a Head Carpenter, a Chief Engineer, a Chief Carpenter, a Senior Engineer, a Senior Carpenter, a Lead Accountant, an Electrical Superintendent, a Marketing Manager, Assistant Professor, a Teaching Assistant, etc.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:10:47 AM

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There are no rules.

Some guidelines.

A proper post title (which I would capitalise) would often (not always) be one which can be preceded by "the". A job description would more likely have 'a' - but not always.

I'm a security guard. ("security guard" is just 'what I do")
I am (the) Security Guard at the National Museum. ("Security Guard" is my post title)

Quote:
First of all, if capitalisation is a matter of preference then how can I determine if it is a job/post title or it is a description.
I am a Professor of the Head of Computer Science. <=> I am a professor.
I am the Office Manager of General Executive Director
I am a cobbler.
I am an accountant.
I am a security guard.

Very often, it's just that you choose.
If you want to mention your post title, you say "I am the Professor of the Computer Sciences Department."
If you don't, you might just say "I am a professor", if you consider it to be your job.
Or you might want to state your personal title - "I am a Professor" or "I am Professor Jones."

****************
Quote:
I am thinking of 'Master' is corresponding to / similar to "Head", "Chief"

Yes - it's something like that.

The title of "Master . . ." is granted to someone who is fully trained in the trade (carpentry, stonework, plumbing or whatever) and is able to do ANY work required in that trade - AND is considered good enough to be able to teach someone else while continuing to do the job.
It is a level of COMPETENCE, not really a level of "where the person happens to fit on someone's organising chart".
A Master Carpenter would very often not be on anyone else's organising chart.
Likely to be self-employed, a Master Carpenter would be hired as a consultant or specialist for very difficult jobs.

The Head Carpenter, Senior Carpenter or Chief Carpenter in a company might be no better at carpentry than the others - but has a little responsibility to organise the other carpenters and, maybe, assign jobs "OK, we have three jobs to do today. John, you build the table and chairs. Mike and Jean, you two make up the panelling for the Board Room. I will be doing the woodwork in Reception."

***************
I agree with the capitalisation you have done in "1" and "3" - and your statement for "2".
Quote:
2- Job titles reflecting what the person does on the job: . . . It can be said not capitalised.

Except that I would add - "It can be said not capitalised, but may be capitalised sometimes. It depends on the convention being used in the organisation."



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A cooperator
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:19:00 AM

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Thank you so much,
However, other way to represent job titles in companies:
Dr Robert
General Executive Director
Stallion Company

Dr Smith
Head Manager
Stallion Company

Ms Julia
secretary
Stallion Company

Mr John
Chief Marketing Manager
Stallion Company


Mrs Lila
Lead Accountant
Stallion Company


Mr Richard
Senior Accountant
Stallion Company


Miss Soha
accountant
Stallion Company

Dr Adam
telcomms engineer
Stallion Company

Mr Gray
cleaner
Stallion Company
===============
If I am only going to save persons' names, along with their phone numbers, in contacts into my book address, a person does work as a cobbler as private job, then do I need to type a "cobbler" in the "job title" field of contact form to be filled in or leave it empty.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:33:51 AM

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Do whichever one helps you the most, and provides you with the data you need.


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A cooperator
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 8:18:05 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Do whichever one helps you the most, and provides you with the data you need.


If persons, you, for instance, are going to preserve their names, along with their cellphone numbers, etc. in your address book, are members of a company, then according to Job Hierarchy, you can type their job titles in capitalised letters in the "job title" field of contact entity to be saved. For instance,

Prefix and Name: Dr John
Job Title: Executive Director
Company: Stallion Security & Safety Services Ltd

However, if you have a person not having a job in a company, but has a private job(non job hierarchy), then what would you type in the job title field in the contact entry of that person to be saved into your address book?

Prefix and Name: Mr Gray
Job Title: cobbler
Company: possibly typing the name of cobbler's shop.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:26:09 AM

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Hello again.

Yes - that sounds logical to me.

I might well capitalise 'cobbler' - not because it's a title, but just because it's really (if you think of a conversation between you and your computer) a new sentence.

What is his prefix and his name?
Mr Gray.
What is his job title?
Cobbler.
Which company does he work at?
Gray's Shoes and Slippers.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:08:57 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hello again.

Yes - that sounds logical to me.

I might well capitalise 'cobbler' - not because it's a title, but just because it's really (if you think of a conversation between you and your computer) a new sentence.

What is his prefix and his name?
Mr Gray.
What is his job title?
Cobbler.
Which company does he work at?
Gray's Shoes and Slippers.


Thanks a lot,
Drag0speaker, you said that you'd have capitalised 'cobbler', not because it's a title, but because it's a new sentence. However, since then your answering of the question 'what is his job title' has been 'Cobbler'. Then, didn't 'Cobbler' become a job title?
If yes, it became a job title, then what difference would be there between the job title of a person having a job in a company(job title Non-administrative hierarchy) and the job title of those members working for a company (job title administrative hierarchy), like I mentioned, for instance,

Job title administrative hierarchy:
Prefix and Name: Dr John
Job Title: Executive Director - it is capitalized since it orders others.
Company: Stallion Security & Safety Services Ltd


Job title Non-administrative hierarchy:
Prefix and Name: Mr Gray
Job Title: cobbler - it is NOT capitalized since it doesn't order others.
Company name: Gray's Shoes and Slippers

I think officials directing orders to other office workers in a company are only those who should be titled with job titles capitalized to describe the responsibilities of the position, however, office workers receiving orders, and any other workers working for themselves(not for a company) should be titled with job titles in small letters to consider them job descriptive for what they do.
That is why I have thought that person working as 'cobbler' for himself (NOT for a company) should be NOT capitalized.
If you might be saying that members in a company are titled according to job title administrative hierarchy(officials directing orders to other office workers), I'd be saying that you can find, in any company, there are some office workers who only receive orders and cannot direct orders to any others.


Imagine having "money exchange company", and "personal office for provide business services", then you'd definitely find an accountant in both(one works for a company, and the other one works for himself (NOT for a company).
Imagine filling in a contact entity of each accountant of those two ones in an address book, then you'll go through:

Job title administrative hierarchy:
Prefix and name: Dr Swan
Job title: General Executive Director - it is capitalized since it orders others.
Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company


Prefix and name: Miss Julie
Job title: Office Manager of General Executive Director - it is capitalized since it orders others.
Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company

Prefix and name: Mr Anderson
Job title: a Lead Accountant - it is capitalized since it orders others.
Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company

Prefix and name: Mr Richard
Job title: Accountant - it is capitalized since it does orders others.
Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company

Prefix and name: Mr David
Job title: Security Guard - it is capitalized since it orders others, for instance, you're the Security Guard at the National Museum since you're ordering others.

Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company


Prefix and name: Mr Jamis
Job title: cleaner - it is NOT capitalized since it doesn't order others.
Company name: Al-Omqy & Bros Money Exchange Company





Job title non-administrative hierarchy:
Prefix and name: Mr Macheal
Job title: accountant it is NOT capitalized since it doesn't order others.
Company name: Michael's Office for Provide Business Services for Individuals






Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 6:08:49 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,877
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

****************
Quote:
I am thinking of 'Master' is corresponding to / similar to "Head", "Chief"

Yes - it's something like that.

The title of "Master . . ." is granted to someone who is fully trained in the trade (carpentry, stonework, plumbing or whatever) and is able to do ANY work required in that trade - AND is considered good enough to be able to teach someone else while continuing to do the job.
It is a level of COMPETENCE, not really a level of "where the person happens to fit on someone's organising chart".
A Master Carpenter would very often not be on anyone else's organising chart.
Likely to be self-employed, a Master Carpenter would be hired as a consultant or specialist for very difficult jobs.

The Head Carpenter, Senior Carpenter or Chief Carpenter in a company might be no better at carpentry than the others - but has a little responsibility to organise the other carpenters and, maybe, assign jobs "OK, we have three jobs to do today. John, you build the table and chairs. Mike and Jean, you two make up the panelling for the Board Room. I will be doing the woodwork in Reception."



Thanks a lot,
Noun: master - it is a level of COMPETENCE.
a skilled practitioner of a particular art or activity.
A Master Carpenter
Firstly: If 'Master' is similar to 'expert/professional', then why do you not say 'expert carpenter'


Adjective: master - it is a level of COMPETENCE.
having or showing very great skill or proficiency.
a master painter
main; principal.
the master bedroom

Secondly: As Romany stated it clearly "they are at the top of their field. "Master" puts the person way above any ordinary carpenter, builder or goldsmith. (Or above a Graduate in acadaemia.) One can be a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith etc."

Why is the modifier 'master' as a noun, along with the modified word, capitalized, however, the modifier 'master' as an adjective, along with the modified word, isn't capitalized? Then, how can I distinguish between "a Master Designer" and " a master designer", " a Master Thief" and "a master thief ", "a Master Builder" and " a master builder ", " a Master Carpenter " and " a master carpenter ", etc.



Drag0nspeaker wrote:

I agree with the capitalisation you have done in "1" and "3" - and your statement for "2".
Quote:
2- Job titles reflecting what the person does on the job: . . . It can be said not capitalised.

Except that I would add - "It can be said not capitalised, but may be capitalised sometimes. It depends on the convention being used in the organisation."


In single job titles, first word describes the responsibilities of the position: Executive, Manager, Director, Chief, Supervisor, Professor, etc.

However, I think of 'compounds' of 'job titles' as though the 'job level'(a level of "where the person happens to fit on someone's organising chart) is the noun modifier' in these compound, and the job responsibilities is the modified noun.

3- Job titles revealing both the job level(a modifier as a noun, in bold) and the job responsibilities: a Master Builder, a Master Carpenter, a Master Goldsmith, a Master Prison Officer, a Head Chef, a Head Carpenter, a Chief Engineer, a Chief Carpenter, a Senior Engineer, a Senior Carpenter, a Lead Accountant, an Electrical Superintendent, a Marketing Manager, a Regius Professor, an Assistant Professor, a Teaching Assistant, etc.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:49:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Hi!
There are things which depend on your social group (country, possibly religion, even city).

Quote:
Executive Director - it is capitalised since it orders others.
Job Title: cobbler - it is NOT capitalised since it doesn't order others.


Personally, I would say "Why do you make an executive director more important than a cobbler? Doesn't a director need to wear shoes?" However, I do understand that in some societies, executives are considered to be 'better' than other people.

A cleaner has the right to order the Executive Director to pick up the paper cup he dropped in the corridor outside his office.
The cleaner is the executive (person responsible for executing the company policy) in the area of cleanliness.
If the ED drops his cup in the corridor, the cleaner has every right to say "Will you pick that up and put it in the bin?"
The ED has every right to order the cleaner "Can you come in and give my desk a polish? It has some coffee-stains from this morning's meeting and I have visitors in an hour."
(This is the English way of giving orders - you will never hear "Pick up that cup!" or "Come and polish my desk" in normal working environments.)

*************
Quote:
Firstly: If 'Master' is similar to 'expert/professional', then why do you not say 'expert carpenter'
Because the title is 'Master Carpenter'.
Why do you not call your President 'King'? - Because that's not the right word.

**************
The modifier 'master' in 'master bedroom' is not capitalised because 'master bedroom' is not usually considered to be a title or social/work status.

"Master Carpenter" is capitalised because it is a status.
The 'Guild of Cabinetmakers and Woodworkers of Britain' (or some group like that) have recognised Joe Blow as being such a good carpenter that he is awarded the title "Master Carpenter".

"Master" is not normally used just to mean "senior" or "main" when referring to people. If someone is the main carpenter on a specific project (with other carpenters following his orders), he would be called "Head Carpenter", "Lead Carpenter" or "Chief Carpenter".
If you were describing his job, you would say "He's a lead carpenter . . ." or just "I'm a carpenter and I'm in charge of _____ project." No-one would ever say "I'm/He's a master carpenter" to mean "head carpenter".

*************
If a person is awarded the title of 'Master Carpenter' or 'Master Goldsmith', then that title is theirs.
It doesn't matter whether they are out-of-work, employed in a large company, running their own business or retired. They are still "Master Carpenter" or "Master Goldsmith" (There is no such thing as "Master Prison Officer" or "Master Thief", except in some fantasy stories.)

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
thar
Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 5:05:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 17,983
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I think it has little to do with giving orders - it seems to be whether it is a word that describes their job, or a made-up title.

A cleaner cleans, that is what they do
An assistant assists, that is what they do.
A cobbler cobbles.
OK, a carpenter doesn't carpent, but carpenter is a standard English word - everyone knows basically what a carpenter does.

But a Vice-Chancellor doesn't vice-chancel! It is a constructed title, for a specific set of responsibilities.
An Executive Director doesn't executively direct! Again, it is a title that is constructed to describe a specific set of duties and responsibilities. I doubt most people have a clue what it actually means.

Maybe there is snobbery involved - but I think there is also the understanding that in the language, a cleaner is someone who does that task, but the word 'Executive Director' is a title given by the organisation.
Interesting to see if, when cleaners become known as Hygiene Operatives for example, that is capitialised as well!
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