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'Personal titles' and 'job titles' Options
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:33:06 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hello A Cooperator.

I just looked back through this whole thread and I see that you actually start off in your first post with a wrong datum.

I think (from the way you have presented it) that it is directly from some article about 'titles'.

There are THREE not two 'titles'.
'Sir/Madam' are not personal titles (except for a very few people who are 'knights' and are called 'Sir John' or something like that)

The first is 'Personal Title'.
That is the title which goes in front of your name.
There are not many of these for normal or 'academic' people:
Mister Jones(Mr)
Missus Smith(Mrs)
Miss Black(Miss)
Miz Green (Ms) - this is the 'combination of 'Mrs' and 'Miss')
Sir John Jackson (it is only a personal title for someone who is a knight)
Doctor White (a person with any degree in medicine, who is practising in treating patients OR any person with any Doctorate - Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity)
Professor Brown

Military people and 'Peers' have others:
General Grant, Marshal Montgomery, Flight Lieutenant Smith, Petty Officer Jones
Lord, Earl, Prince


The second is 'title of address'
This is what you call them when you are speaking to them formally, or at the start of a letter. (the examples show the start of a letter)
Dear Sir, (It is the title of address for any male person when you do not use a name)
Dear Madam, ('Madam' is only a title of address, it is not a personal title for anyone)
Dear Sir or Madam,

(or, you could use their full name:
Dear Mr Jones,
Dear Ms Smith,
Dear Sir John, (only for a knight)
Dear Dr White,
etc

If you are speaking to someone informally, there are hundreds of 'titles of address' - different in different sections of society and different places - 'mate', 'pal', 'old man', etc etc.


The third is the Post Title or Job Title.
It can be specific or general - it depends what you want to say:
One person could put any of these as 'job title':
Lecturer
University lecturer
Lecturer in Mathematics
Lecturer at Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Trinity College, Oxford


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:46:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

Other people working in medicine (surgeons, dentists, etc) are usually called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').

***********
Anyone in any profession - with a degree or without a degree - can be called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').
'Mr', 'Ms' and 'Mrs' are NOT used without the name.

If you know the person's name, you can say "Hello, Mr Jones" or "Hello Ms Smith."
If you do not know the person's name, you can use 'Sir' or 'Madam,. - "Hello, Sir", "Hello Madam."



Thank you so much indeed, Drag0nspeaker,


Then can I understand that 'Mister' usually is written in its abbreviated form 'Mr'. And the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all are derived from earlier forms of mistress?


I have read from Wikipeida:
Quote:
Mister, usually written in its abbreviated form Mr. (US & HK) or Mr (US & UK & HK), is a commonly used English honorific for men under the rank of knighthood. The title derived from earlier forms of master, as the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all derived from earlier forms of mistress. Master is sometimes still used as an honorific for boys and young men, but its use is increasingly uncommon.

The modern plural form is Misters, although its usual formal abbreviation Messrs(.)[note 1] derives from use of the French title messieurs in the 18th century.[1][3] Messieurs is the plural of monsieur (originally mon sieur, "my lord"), formed by declining both of its constituent parts separately.[3]


Historically, mister—like Sir or my lord—was applied only to those above one's own status in the peerage. This understanding is now obsolete, as it was gradually expanded as a mark of respect to those of equal status and then to all gentlemen.[when?] It is now used indiscriminately.

for example, Mr Justice Crane (unless they are entitled to be addressed as Lord Justice). Where a forename is necessary to avoid ambiguity it is always used, for example Mr Justice Robert Goff to distinguish from a predecessor Mr Justice Goff



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:27:21 AM

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Sarrriesfan wrote:
tunaafi wrote:
Romany wrote:
It's been out of the English language since before WW2.


It was still around in the 1950s, Until I was about eight or nine (1955), I used to receive (and send) birthday and Christmas cards addressed to Master F Name.


My Aunt still used it for my birthday and Christmas cards in the 1970s.


May I know why you've capitalised 'Aunt' there in your sentence above, Sarriesfan?
If it was typo, then please inform me since typos let non-native English learners think of that typos any further.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:02:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

The first is 'Personal Title'.
That is the title which goes in front of your name.
There are not many of these for normal or 'academic' people:
Mister Jones(Mr)
Missus Smith(Mrs)
Miss Black(Miss)
Miz Green (Ms) - this is the 'combination of 'Mrs' and 'Miss')
Sir John Jackson (it is only a personal title for someone who is a knight)
Doctor White (a person with any degree in medicine, who is practising in treating patients OR any person with any Doctorate - Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity)
Professor Brown


If you are speaking to someone informally, there are hundreds of 'titles of address' - different in different sections of society and different places - 'mate', 'pal', 'old man', etc etc.


The third is the Post Title or Job Title.
It can be specific or general - it depends what you want to say:
One person could put any of these as 'job title':
Lecturer
University lecturer
Lecturer in Mathematics
Lecturer at Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Trinity College, Oxford


Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The people who use 'Doctor' as their personal title are:
1. people who have a doctorate (Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity . . .) which is the next degree above 'Bachelor of Arts', 'Bachelor of Science' and so on.
2. People who are practising medicine and have a bachelor's degree - MBBS, MBChB, MBBCh, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), BMBS

Other people working in medicine (surgeons, dentists, etc) are usually called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').

***********

The word "professor" is both a job-title and a personal title. It is quite rare in Britain
When a person with a doctorate works in a university, he is called 'Doctor' (personal title) and his post title is 'lecturer' or 'reader'.

When he has worked there many years, has written books and articles and has "contributed significantly to the knowledge of the subject", he may become the head of the department, in charge of all the lecturers teaching one specific subject, when the current Professor retires or dies.
He then will have the personal title of 'Professor' and the job title of 'Professor of Mathematics' or 'Professor of Mediaeval Art' (whatever the name of the department he is in charge of).

'Professor' can be used with, or without the person's name - "Hello, Professor Jones" or "Hello, Professor."

A Professor is FAR above the 'rank' of a Doctor.

American universities don't have the same discrimination - any old person who works in a university can call themselves 'professor'.


Thank you so much indeed, Dragonspeaker

Yes, but some Assistant Professors wrote their letters of recommendation as follows:

Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX

The other doctor's recommendation letter is:----

Dr. Makarem Mohammed
Position: assistant professor
Dep.of Computer Engineering
Faculty of Engineering and Petroleum
Hadhramout University for Science and Technology
Hadhramout, Yemen
Email:XXXXXX


Note, according to above, I noticed that they wrote their job tile(position) as assistant professor. So, my questions are:
Firstly- are the positions written above meant to be the job titles? If so, then why they did write 'lecture' as you stated above "When a person with a doctorate works in a university, he is called 'Doctor' (personal title) and his post title is 'lecturer' or 'reader'."

Secondly- Must 'Assistant Professor' be capitalized in their first letters since I noticed one doctor capitalized 'Assistant Professor'. However, the other one didn't(Position: assistant professor). (I don't know if I can capitalise the initial letters of 'Assistant Professors' here or not, but they were capitalized in one of the letters of recommendation written by those doctors above)

Thirdly- As far as I know that academic staff' ranks can be granted as this order:
Teaching Assistant
Research Associate (There is no such rank in my own country)
Lecturer (There is no such rank in my own country)
Assistant Instructor
Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor
Professor

So, I think academic staff working at universities would be addressed in their personal tiles, and job titles as follows:
1- Personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: a teaching assistant( a person having only a bachelor's degree)
2- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: Research Associate (There is no such rank in my own country)
3- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title:Lecturer (There is no such rank in my own country)
4- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: Assistant Instructor ( a person having a master's degree)
5- personal title: Dr, job title: Assistant Professor ( a person having a doctorate's degree (Ph.D)
6- Personal title: Dr, job title: Co-professor/Associate Professor(In my own country, Yemen, an assistant professor can be granted the rank of "Co-professor/Associate Professor" after he did some advanced researches.)
7- personal title: Professor, job title: Professor of Mathematics. (In my own country, Yemen, an associate professor can be granted the rank of "Professor" after he did some advanced researches.)

Finally: I am not sure if I can capitalise all of "
Teaching Assistant
Research Associate
Lecturer
Assistant Instructor
Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor
Professor






Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:15:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,314
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX


He has decided not to bother using his personal title.

The practise is different in different countries - and even in different universities in the same country.
As he is not a full Professor, normally in Britain, his personal title would be "Dr".
He could have written "Dr Hesham Awadh"

"Assistant Professor" is one post title.
I assume that there is a full Professor who is the head of the whole faculty. Their will be a hierarchy, something like Dean (Head of the University), two or three Professors (Heads of whole Faculties), several Assistant Professors (Heads of Departments), many Lecturers.
"Head of Computer Science Department" is another post title, it is a little more specific. There may be several "Assistant Professors" at that university, but only one "Head of Computer Science Department".

*************
On the rest of your questions - there are no international or national rules.

It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.

The rules I know which may help answer your questions are:

A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Morgaen
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:40:58 PM

Rank: Member

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There isn't much else to add really; DragO explained everything the way it is.

I was looking up the screenshot on your first post, Cooperator, and the two examples you just gave.

I don't know if this is going to mess things up, but that's how I see it:

1)
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D. = the degree -> because some academics or scholars tend to sign as "XX_Name-XX, PhD" rather than using a personal title (Dr) as in "Dr XX_Name-XX" (one or the other)
(I don't really include periods in PhD and Dr, but I know it's common practice to write Ph.D. and Dr. - and that's probably the way it is in Yemen from what I can see)

Assistant Professor = job title

2)
Dr. Makarem Mohammed -> personal title
Position: assistant professor = job title -> personally, I would have capitalized this (Assistant Professor).

Other examples that would include personal titles and job titles:
Dr X, Lecturer, ...; Dr X, Assistant Professor, ...; Mr X, Research Assistant...

Other examples, this time as listed on staff profiles:

Prof. X [personal title + name]
Professor of Surgery and Consultant Surgeon [job title/position]
School of Medicine
Institute of XXX
Planet Jupiter
etc

Mrs Elaine XX [personal title + name]
Senior Secretary [job title/position]
School of Engineering
University of XXX
Planet Mars


In a school:
Mrs Jenny XX [personal title + name]
Deputy Principal [job title/position]
etc



A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:42:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you both of you very much indeed.

Can I understand that 'Mister' usually is written in its abbreviated form 'Mr'. And the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all are derived from earlier forms of mistress?


I have read from Wikipeida:
Quote:
Mister, usually written in its abbreviated form Mr. (US & HK) or Mr (US & UK & HK), is a commonly used English honorific for men under the rank of knighthood. The title derived from earlier forms of master, as the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all derived from earlier forms of mistress. Master is sometimes still used as an honorific for boys and young men, but its use is increasingly uncommon.

The modern plural form is Misters, although its usual formal abbreviation Messrs(.)[note 1] derives from use of the French title messieurs in the 18th century.[1][3] Messieurs is the plural of monsieur (originally mon sieur, "my lord"), formed by declining both of its constituent parts separately.[3]


Historically, mister—like Sir or my lord—was applied only to those above one's own status in the peerage. This understanding is now obsolete, as it was gradually expanded as a mark of respect to those of equal status and then to all gentlemen.[when?] It is now used indiscriminately.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:02:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 287
Neurons: 1,521
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:


Quote:
Alley Punk #1: Hey, mister! You got the time?
The Mask: As a matter of fact I do, Cubby.
[pulls out a wind up alarm clock]
The Mask: LOOK AT THAT! It's exactly two seconds before I honk your nose and pull your underwear over your head!



A very quick side question:
I understand to honk here means to break one's nose, is it so?
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:29:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX



It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.
A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Thank you so much, Drag0nspraker
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 2:33:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 13,395
Neurons: 40,818
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

In no university I've been associated with (Australia, Papua New Guinea, South Africa, China, England) have there been: -

Teaching Assistants
Assistant Instructors
Assistant Professors
Co-professors

As Drago says: there's a lot of variation. So if I were in touch with someone who held a title or job I'd not heard of, I would just copy exactly - word for word and punctuation mark for punctuation mark - what they had written. That way one can't cause offence.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:31:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,314
Neurons: 151,606
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.

Yes - you are right - I would never expect to see the articles in those fields, and as titles, they should have capital letters.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, May 27, 2017 11:58:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.

Yes - you are right - I would never expect to see the articles in those fields, and as titles, they should have capital letters.



Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker,
I would like to answer my three questions below:

1- If a person is addressed with Dr or Professor in his personal title, how could he/she be addressed in his job title? I can say 'Assistant Professor in Computer Science, in Physics etc, and Professor of Physics, etc. Or it is enough to say 'Assistant Professor'/'Professor'?

2- If a person is a lawyer, and I am going to address that person in his job title, then I should capitalize the first letter of 'Lawyer', and no articles could be used? This could be applied for all other fields?

3- I think that "Freelancer" is a job title(a person who works freelance.), which should also be capitalized? However, whoever he is addressed with that job title, how they will be addressed in their personal titles?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:22:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,129
Neurons: 25,822
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:


Quote:
Alley Punk #1: Hey, mister! You got the time?
The Mask: As a matter of fact I do, Cubby.
[pulls out a wind up alarm clock]
The Mask: LOOK AT THAT! It's exactly two seconds before I honk your nose and pull your underwear over your head!



A very quick side question:
I understand to honk here means to break one's nose, is it so?


Not exactly. The literal meaning is to make a loud sound like a goose or a car horn (claxon).

This quote refers to a type of physical comedy or clowning that uses such a sound effect every time someone's nose is pulled. The threat is more about humiliation than physical abuse.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:39:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,129
Neurons: 25,822
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:

3- I think that "Freelancer" is a job title(a person who works freelance.), which should also be capitalized? However, whoever he is addressed with that job title, how they will be addressed in their personal titles?


I'll preface this remark by admitting that I have been what is politely referred to as a "technical recruiter", but more commonly known as a "head-hunter" on good days, or "body snatcher" at my best.
Whistle

The euphemisms for "freelance" are several, including "independent contractor", "technical advisor", and "consultant". More colorful job descriptions have been "road warrior", "mercenary", and "freebooter". I would not consider "Freelancer" to be a title, but rather a description of the contractual relationship a person has to a company or a project. It's more a career strategy than a profession.

I have also worked for several decades as a freelance musician, and mostly people call me by my name — to my face.

What they called me behind my back I didn't care about, just as long as they called me and payed me.
Whistle

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 8:58:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,314
Neurons: 151,606
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi again.

Somehow this is becoming very complex.

A job title is a job title. It comes with the job. When you are hired or recruited, you are given a title (if you are promoted, the title will change).

Someone who is hired to work in an office just generally helping (no specialty) will probably be called 'Office Assistant' on their organisation chart. That is their job title.
If they have a specific specialty (say, they do all the filing for everyone), they would have a more specific job-title, like "Files Officer".

It is not grammar or any sort of rules - it is just the name your employer gives to your job/post.

LeonAzul's actual job-title would be "Technical Recruiter".
Mine is "Security Officer".

"Freelancer" is not a job title, really. Someone who is hired just for one job, then goes on to another company for another job is still hired for something. To be "Reporter" or "Programmer" or "Cleaner".
"Freelance Reporter" or "Freelance Computer Programmer" or "Freelance Cleaner" could be used as a title - if they are not employed, then they can choose their own job title.

It is not your job to invent job titles for anyone except your employees.

**********
A freelance employee will have his/her own personal title.
The personal title is not connected to the job title.

A person with a doctorate may be having a year away from home travelling and working as a cleaner every few weeks, just to make a bit of money.
He or she could be called "Doctor Smith" but their job title would be "Cleaner". But most people would probably call them "Mike" or "Mary".

Some computer programmers have no degree, though they can be the most experienced at the job.
If they are self-employed and hired for individual jobs they may be called "Freelance Programmer" or "Computer Consultant" - whatever they decide they are.
Their personal title would be "Mr." or "Ms."


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 7:26:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:


LeonAzul's actual job-title would be "Technical Recruiter".
Mine is "Security Officer".


Thanks a lot,
Drag0nspeaker, and LeonAzul,

1- you think that job-titles above should be capitalized?

2- you think the definition for job-tiles above is as follows:
Technical Recruiter is an individual who works to fill job openings in businesses or organizations. Recruiters will work from resumes or by actively soliciting individuals qualified for positions. A recruiter's job includes reviewing candidate's job experiences, negotiating salaries, and placing candidates in agreeable employment positions.

Security Officer is a security guard preventing risks and deter crime, watch out for looming danger, and report any crime they may encounter. ... A security guard or security officer is a person who is paid to protect property, assets, or people. They are usually privately and mostly comprised with civilian personnel.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 9:49:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,453
Neurons: 8,935
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

**********
A freelance employee will have his/her own personal title.
The personal title is not connected to the job title.

A person with a doctorate may be having a year away from home travelling and working as a cleaner every few weeks, just to make a bit of money.
He or she could be called "Doctor Smith" but their job title would be "Cleaner". But most people would probably call them "Mike" or "Mary".

Some computer programmers have no degree, though they can be the most experienced at the job.
If they are self-employed and hired for individual jobs they may be called "Freelance Programmer" or "Computer Consultant" - whatever they decide they are.
Their personal title would be "Mr." or "Ms."




Thank you very much indeed, Drag0nspeaker, you have summarized it in your two lines above. However, I got confused when I noticed the personal_data-changing form for the DAAD-portal accounts.

Thus, could you please take some of your precious time out to address these points below:::

1- Could you please let me know what those abbreviations below stand for(screen shots below as a reference)?
Academic titles:
Arquitecta
Arquitecto
Assoc.Prof.
Assoc.Prof.Dr.
Asst.Prof.
Asst.Prof.MD
Dipl.-Ing.
Doc.Dr.
Dr SpAN.KIC
Dr SpOG
Dr.
Dr. (M.D)
Dr.des.
Dr.Dipl.-Ing.
Dr. Dr.
Dr. Dr. h.c.
Dr. Dr. med.
Dr. Dr.-Ing.
Dr. h.c.
Dr. h.c. mult.
Dr. habil.
Dr. med. vet.
Dr. mult.
Dr.Ing.
Dr. -Ing.
Dr. -Ing.
Dr.-Ing.habil.
Dr. med. vet.
Dr. mult.
Dr.-Ing.
Dr.-ing.habil.
Dr. jur.
Dr. med.
Drs.
DVM
Ing.
Lic.
M.D.
mgr
MUDr.
PD Dr.
PhD
Priv.-Doz.
Prof.
Prof. Dr.
Prof. Dr. Dr.
Prof. Dr. em.
Prof. Dr. med.
Prof. Dr. oec.
Prof .Dr. phil.
Prof. Dr. rer.
Prof. Dr.-Ing.
Prof. Dr.habil.
Prof. em. Dr.
Prof. Ing.DrSc.
Prof. RNDr.
Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.
Prof.Dr.rer.nat
Prof.Ing.habil.
RNDr.




2- You think those abbreviations in the 'academic title' are "job-titles/ post title"?


3- I think that personal titles can be :
Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, Dr, Professor, Sir.

However, in the DAAD form, I found, in the 'Sex' field, that 'Mr.' and 'Ms.' are used as the personal titles(first screen shot below)?

Thus, if a person has a doctorate, then she/he could be called "Doctor" as her/his personal title. However, there is no 'Doctor' in the 'Sex' field'(only Mr. or Ms.)

I.e. I think if 'Prof/M.D.' is selected in the 'academic title' field as a job-title, then 'Dr.' must be selected in 'Sex' field as the personal title since he/she must have had a doctorate. However, there is no 'Dr' listed in the 'Sex' field(only Mr. or Ms.)

As a result, I don't know if the 'Ms.' and 'Mr.' in the DAAD form in the 'Sex' section mean personal titles or not. If they had been personal titles, then either of them could be selected as personal title whatever I selected in the academic titles? I don't think so.


5- Why are 'Mr.' and 'Ms.' placed under 'Sex' filed in the DAAD form? I think they should be placed under 'personal title'?

6- You think that the 'personal title', Doctor or Professor could be shortened as 'Dr' or 'Prof'. For example,

"Professor Black" (Prof Black) (in charge of a whole department of a university)
"Doctor White" (Dr White) - someone who has a doctorate of any sort - medicine, philosophy, divinity etc)

7- I have been working at a university as a teaching assistant in Computer Science(I hold a BS.c in Computer Science). So, I am really confused about what I must select as my academic title in the 'academic title' field. I didn't find any 'Teaching Assistant' in the academic title' field. However, I am sure that I must select 'Mr.' in the 'Sex' field as my personal title














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A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:59:30 AM

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Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of his precious time out to reply to my final post?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:24:04 AM

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I think one problem is that the question you are asking is about a German based website, and it is following rules of grammar and usage that are closer to their language. English grammar is not the same.

For example in English you might just call someone Doctor no matter what gender they are, but in German it is quite common to use "Herr Docktor" which is literally "Mr Doctor" or "Frau Doktor" "Mrs Doctor".

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Sarrriesfan
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:34:53 AM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien could be titled as writer, poet, philogist, and university professor (job).

His personal title was Mr, since he was only awarded as CBE, Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Had he been awarded as GBE or KBE, he would have been addressed as Sir.


I think his correct title in British English would be Professor Tolkien.

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leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 8:57:26 PM

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A cooperator wrote:
Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of his precious time out to reply to my final post?


Many of these titles are not in English, as others have noted. To my eye, this particular page looks like Italian.

Think

In any case, if I understand you correctly, your immediate need is to to enter information into a software database concerning persons with whom you would like to keep in touch. The most important thing about that is getting (and pronouncing) the given name correct, and indicating the level of responsibility each person has.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, August 14, 2017 10:01:38 AM

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Hello.

Most of those sets of letters mean nothing at all -= they don't make sense in English.

'Arquitecta' is (I guess) Spanish or Portuquese for 'architect, female'.
'Arquitecto' is (I guess) Spanish or Portuquese for 'architect, male'.

'Dipl. Ing' is probably the same language for "Dipl.Eng" - "Diploma of Engineering".

All the doubled ones mean nothing - "Dr Dr" or "Dr Professor" or "Asst Prof Dr" - you are either a doctor or a professor. And if you are a doctor, you are not a doctor of doctoring.

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A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 1:41:26 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:


He has decided not to bother using his personal title.

The practise is different in different countries - and even in different universities in the same country.
As he is not a full Professor, normally in Britain, his personal title would be "Dr".
He could have written "Dr Hesham Awadh"

"Assistant Professor" is one post title.
I assume that there is a full Professor who is the head of the whole faculty. Their will be a hierarchy, something like Dean (Head of the University), two or three Professors (Heads of whole Faculties), several Assistant Professors (Heads of Departments), many Lecturers.
"Head of Computer Science Department" is another post title, it is a little more specific. There may be several "Assistant Professors" at that university, but only one "Head of Computer Science Department".

*************
On the rest of your questions - there are no international or national rules.

It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.

The rules I know which may help answer your questions are:

A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker

Here my referee stated his position as "assistant professor" although he has doctorate.


Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX


However, I noticed in this reference contact form (screenshot below)the "position" could be "Manager", "Director" or "Lecturer" etc. There is no "Assistant professor"
So, my questions are:
1- why not saying "assistant professor" as position if my reference has a doctorate?
2- "position" means "job title"?



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 1:45:54 AM

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Thank you all of you, sarriesfan, LeonAzul, Drag0nspeaker,
But that form is a German form written in English.
It is for DAAD scholarship programme to which I will be applying. What do you think I select as my position/job title from the "academic titles" drop-down menu?
I have been working as a teaching assistant in a university.

Also, why do you think the personal titles are listed under "Sex" in that form. Also, why do you think that "Mr." and "Ms." are available. If an applicant going to apply has a master's degree or doctorate, then he/she must select either Mr. or Ms.(Could you have you seen my screen shots posted before?)

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 3:20:39 AM

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Hello again.

I also have difficulty sometimes with 'drop-down menus' - they don't actually include the correct answer and there is no provision for "Other Title".

From those choices, I would put "Lecturer" as your title/position and "Director" as your referee's title/position (as he is a Head of Department).

As a note - I can see the "uploads.disquscdn.com" screenshot, but not the "dropbox" ones.
Dropbox have changed all their security/privacy settings recently.

I have no idea why they put personal titles in the "Sex" dropdown - usually it's just "male/female/don't wish to say". Possibly (a guess) this is the way it is done in German, and the web-designer didn't know - I do know that "Mrs" and "woman" are both "Frau" in German.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 6:08:47 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hello again.

I also have difficulty sometimes with 'drop-down menus' - they don't actually include the correct answer and there is no provision for "Other Title".

From those choices, I would put "Lecturer" as your title/position and "Director" as your referee's title/position (as he is a Head of Department).

As a note - I can see the "uploads.disquscdn.com" screenshot, but not the "dropbox" ones.
Dropbox have changed all their security/privacy settings recently.

I have no idea why they put personal titles in the "Sex" dropdown - usually it's just "male/female/don't wish to say". Possibly (a guess) this is the way it is done in German, and the web-designer didn't know - I do know that "Mrs" and "woman" are both "Frau" in German.



Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker
With respect to your question about 'Dropbox have changed all their security/privacy settings recently'.
I only sometimes decide to upload my photos into uploads.disquscdn.com", embedding them onto other websites scine I noticed that photos uploaded into uploads.disquscdn.com, and ebmeeded onto this forum websites or other websites are shown/displayed much more quickly in comparsion to the photos uploaded into Dropbox, and embedded onto this website or other websites, which are shown more slowly.
If you were asking me since you have an issue with embedding photos uploaded into your Dropbox account into this forum website or other 3rd-websites, then I would be saying yes, Dropbox changed all their settings, and the public folder has been no longer functioning as the public sharing folder into which you could get the direct link of any uploaded photos to be embedded into other websites. However, it became a normal folder, and all old photos uploaded into it, and embedded into other websites became invalid, and must be embedded again. To fix embedding any photos already-uploaded or to embed new uploaded photos, you could go to where the old already-uploaded photos are, or uploaded new photos to wherever you want new photos to be uploaded, and click on 'share', and then 'generate link', after that, copy the link, finally, insert that link into the website in which you want it to be embedded. However, be careful to replace the "dl=0" in the end of link to be as 'raw=1' while inserting the link into this forum website or any other websites.

Go back to my original post, there is no title/position for myself, so why do you suggest to put 'lecture' as my title/position?
That forum ask me to pick my referee's title/position, which can only be "Manager", "Director" or "Lecturer" etc.

However my referee stated his position as "assistant professor" in his letter of recommendation as stated below.


Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX[/quote]


However, I noticed in that reference contact form (screenshot posted before)the "position" could be "Manager", "Director" or "Lecturer" etc. There is no "Assistant professor"
So, my questions is:
1- why is there no "assistant professor" as position in that reference contact form? the website owner from which I have captured that screen shot of reference contact form only put tips as to positions could be "position" could be "Manager", "Director" or "Lecturer". "assistant professor' or other possible positions were not stated. So, if my reference has a doctorate, and he stated 'assistant professor' in his own letter of recommendation given to me, then why do not state 'assistant professor' as his position in that form regardless the tips of positions stated by the website owner?

However, I only have 'teaching assistant' as my position. So, If I was asked to stat my position/title, I would put 'assistant professor'. I am right, aren't I?

Also, you think that "position", "job title" "post title" are the same?


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:25:23 AM

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Hello again.

Thanks for the tips on how to use dropbox in the new format.
For images (if I want to use one which is not already on the internet) I use CtrlQ - which is very simply a free image upload/embedding service. You can't store your images there.

Yes - 'position', 'job title' and 'post title' mean very much the same. 'Position' is a little more generic.
Your referee has the post/position/job of "Head of Computer Science Department", which is an assistant to the Professor (the Head of the College of Sciences).

"Head of Computer Science Department" is equivalent to a director (director n
3. (Professions) a person who directs the affairs of an institution, trust, educational programme, etc
) as he directs the educational programme "Computer Science".

The Head of the College of Sciences is equivalent to a manager (manager n
1. (Professions) a person who directs or manages an organization, industry, shop, etc
) as he manages the whole College.
professor n
1. (Education) the principal lecturer or teacher in a field of learning at a university or college; a holder of a university chair

(All the coloured definitions are from the Collins English Dictionary)

I don't know why there is no 'Assistant Professor' on the drop-down list - that is probably a title which does not exist in some universities (many English universities do not have Assistant Professors). 'Director' and 'Manager' are descriptions which would be recognised anywhere, as they are normal English words.


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Romany
Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:35:31 PM
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Strictly speaking, Drago - we do have "Assistant TO Professor Collywobble" as a job description in some Universities. The person's title would still refer to the last academic degree they'd obtained.Which would probably be their Masters: they're researching for their Doctorate usually. So it's just Ms or Mr, unless they are a peer of the realm.

It's extremely unlikely that the title Assistant Professor would appear on many menus as I said previously. In academic terms as we know them, it just doesn't compute: one can assist a Professor, but there is no academic qualification which makes one an "Assistant" Professor.

I don't know why, as this is a form required by a university,there is no box for Head of Department (H.O.D)which would be how your referee would be described in academia, from K12 up. However, this illustrates your point that a)there's never a box that says what one wants to say and b)different strokes for different folks i.e: drop-downs differ from country to country; place to place. (As this is from a German university they've probably used an English template which was not entirely specific to academia.)c) this also illustrates why *everyone* regardless of being native or 2nd language speakers, loathes having to fill in wretched forms!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 5:08:49 AM

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Hi Romany.

Yes - it's really awkward sometimes, as companies/institutions choose their own titles.

Just look at the government/civil service. You can have someone in charge of a small local office who is a Director and he has an assistant who is his Secretary, but the TOP jobs below the Minister are also Secretaries.

Anyone who runs a three-person business is a 'Manager', but so is someone who runs a two-thousand-worker plant.

I can imagine that in a really big university, the Professor of Humanities (the person running the whole College of Humanities or whatever) may have a personal assistant who is not an academic - a trained PR and Office Manager, but not a Bachelor or Doctor).
The job title might be "Assistant to Professor Goodbody", and the "position" would be "Office Manager" or "Secretary".

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A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:28:13 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Quote:
Your referee has the post/position/job of "Head of Computer Science Department", which is an assistant to the Professor (the Head of the College of Sciences).

"Head of Computer Science Department" is equivalent to a director (director n
3. (Professions) a person who directs the affairs of an institution, trust, educational programme, etc
) as he directs the educational programme "Computer Science".

The Head of the College of Sciences is equivalent to a manager (manager n
1. (Professions) a person who directs or manages an organization, industry, shop, etc
) as he manages the whole College.
professor n
1. (Education) the principal lecturer or teacher in a field of learning at a university or college; a holder of a university chair

(All the coloured definitions are from the Collins English Dictionary)

I don't know why there is no 'Assistant Professor' on the drop-down list - that is probably a title which does not exist in some universities (many English universities do not have Assistant Professors). 'Director' and 'Manager' are descriptions which would be recognised anywhere, as they are normal English words.




Thank you both of you Drag0nspeaker, and Romany

Firstly: Yes, your explanation above ("Head of Computer Science Department" is equivalent to a director) is excellent since this below underlined in qout below proves that as well, which means "at the discretion of the Head/director of your department".

Quote:

Teaching Assistantships: Teaching assistantship appointments are awarded at the discretion of your department director. If you are selected to become a Teaching Assistant (TA), you will be assigned to a professor in the department to share his/her academic and administrative responsibilities, including:
Teaching undergraduate classes.
Leading labs and recitation sessions.
Grading homework, etc.
Note: International students must demonstrate excellent English speaking abilities, as well as a working knowledge of the U.S. higher education system in order to become teaching assistants.

Research Assistantships: Research Assistant (RA) appointments are made by individual faculty members within a department or research center. If you are awarded an RA appointment, you will be expected to assist a faculty member or group of faculty members in performing research related to your field of study. The number of RA appointments, and the amount of funding you receive as an RA, varies according to the research initiatives of professors and departments.


Secondly: what do you mean with the "The Head of the College of Sciences", which is equivalent to a manager"? Do you mean with "The Head of the College of Sciences" with "the dean of a college, in which there are many science departments. Thus, the head of the College of Sciences" has higher position than "the head of a department"?



Thirdly: you had told "professor[/b] n - 1. (Education) the principal lecturer or teacher in a field of learning at a university or college; a holder of a university chair"
But, I think some professors are appointed as the heads of a departments, deans of colleges, the vice-rectors of the academic affairs, the vice-rectors of the students affairs, or even the rectors of universities although all those job titles are only administrative jobs, and not teaching jobs/academic teaching appointments. Thus, why do you think a professor must only be "the principal lecturer or teacher in a field of learning at a university...."

Finally: I think any persons working in teaching staff can be addressed professor if he/she finished all his degrees(bachelor, master, doctorate , and done more research papers)- let me say it in other words, professor would be as if he/she finished all the studies in her/his field.





Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Quote:
I don't know why there is no 'Assistant Professor' on the drop-down list - that is probably a title which does not exist in some universities (many English universities do not have Assistant Professors). 'Director' and 'Manager' are descriptions which would be recognised anywhere, as they are normal English words.



But, AFAIK, only those persons working as teaching staff can only be addressed according to their academical job titles as the following order below regardless if s/he is the head of a department, or the dean of a college or the rector of a university. Correct me if I am wrong.

Teaching Assistants (teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees)
Assistant Instructors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, and master's degrees)
Assistant Professors (teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, and doctoral degrees)
Associate Professors = Co-professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, and a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper)
Professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper), and he has received his top position. I think teaching staff called 'Professor' has finished all his/her degrees, research papers and published articles.

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leonAzul
Posted: Monday, September 25, 2017 12:38:42 AM

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A cooperator wrote:

Associate Professors = Co-professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, and a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper)
Professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper), and he has received his top position. I think teaching staff called 'Professor' has finished all his/her degrees, research papers and published articles.


With very few exceptions, Professors have earned a Doctorate. Indeed, the original meaning of the word "doctor" is virtually synonymous with "professor".

An "Associate Professor" is one who has not been given "tenure", an offer of a permanent position at a college or university. This is often interchangeable with "Assistant Professor", although the latter can refer to someone who is well-advanced in their doctoral program.

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Romany
Posted: Monday, September 25, 2017 3:25:54 PM
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I still think you haven't quite got the "Professor" thing straight.

Yes. In America anyone who teaches at a University, or even a College, is called a "Professor". That's easy and you get it,right?

But in other places, like the UK, a Professor is a (world renowned) expert in their field.

And, I'm sure you didn't mean it when you wrote "[a] professor would be as if he/she finished all the studies in her/his field."?

You don't really believe that anyone, ever, could "finish" all the studies in their field, do you? It would be humanly impossible.

But yes, sometimes a Professor is someone who has been so busy working in their field and getting results and acclaim that they never had the time to go and sit through classes they probably know more about than the lecturer. They have to be exceptional scholars;often National Treasures, like Stephen Hawkings. They have their work peer-reviewed all over the world.

Education is not seen as a ladder: just climbing each step does not make one a scholar. Nor does ascending the Education ladder to the top. There is no "top" in academia. Knowledge is the qualification - not climbing ladders.

Does that clarify it a little more? Taken in conjunction with what both Drago and I have said on the subject previously, I hope it now makes sense?
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:47:35 PM

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Romany wrote:

I still think you haven't quite got the "Professor" thing straight.

Yes. In America anyone who teaches at a University, or even a College, is called a "Professor". That's easy and you get it,right?

But in other places, like the UK, a Professor is a (world renowned) expert in their field.

And, I'm sure you didn't mean it when you wrote "[a] professor would be as if he/she finished all the studies in her/his field."?

You don't really believe that anyone, ever, could "finish" all the studies in their field, do you? It would be humanly impossible.

But yes, sometimes a Professor is someone who has been so busy working in their field and getting results and acclaim that they never had the time to go and sit through classes they probably know more about than the lecturer. They have to be exceptional scholars;often National Treasures, like Stephen Hawkings. They have their work peer-reviewed all over the world.

Education is not seen as a ladder: just climbing each step does not make one a scholar. Nor does ascending the Education ladder to the top. There is no "top" in academia. Knowledge is the qualification - not climbing ladders.

Does that clarify it a little more? Taken in conjunction with what both Drago and I have said on the subject previously, I hope it now makes sense?


Thank you both of you, LeonAzol, Romany
Of course, whoever believes that anyone could or can finish all the studies in their field? That would be humanly impossible, as you said.
But I meant with [a] professor would be as if he/she finished all the studies in her/his field' with I wanted to get the difference between:
"Assistant Professors, Associate Professors = Co-professors, and Professors" since all of them have their bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, and a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper.

However, Teaching Assistants, and Assistant Instructors are well distinguished from each other since the "Assistant Instructors" must have earned their bachelor's degrees, master's degrees. However, the Teaching Assistants only must have earned their bachelor's degrees.


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A cooperator
Posted: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:59:53 PM

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leonAzul wrote:
A cooperator wrote:

Associate Professors = Co-professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, and a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper)
Professors(teaching staff normal only having bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, doctorate's degrees, a sample of professional writing (i.e. a thesis or published article or research paper), and he has received his top position. I think teaching staff called 'Professor' has finished all his/her degrees, research papers and published articles.


With very few exceptions, Professors have earned a Doctorate. Indeed, the original meaning of the word "doctor" is virtually synonymous with "professor".

An "Associate Professor" is one who has not been given "tenure", an offer of a permanent position at a college or university. This is often interchangeable with "Assistant Professor", although the latter can refer to someone who is well-advanced in their doctoral program.


Thanks a lot, LeonAzul,
First of all, I noticed that you have capitalized the first letter of 'Doctorate', which make me get asking myself why?
I think if the full degree name was stated, then we must have capitalized all the first letters of the degree name, like a Doctorate's Degree in Computer Science, a Master's Degree in Computer Science, a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science.

Secondly: Who do you mean with 'latter' in your statement "although the latter can refer to someone who is well-advanced in their doctoral program.". Do you mean with 'latter' with "[a] Professor"?
I don't think an "Associate Professor= Co-professor" is often interchangeable with an "Assistant Professor" since an "Assistant Professor" is a lower ranking than an "Associate Professor= Co-Professor", which, itself, is a lower ranking than a "Professor".
These are the rankings of position/job title, I think.
Teaching Assistants
Assistant Instructors
Assistant Professors
Associate Professors = Co-professors
Professors

Finally: As Drag0nspeaker, mentioned that "Head of Computer Science Department" is equivalent to a director"
I read that "A job title can describe the responsibilities of the position, the level of the job, or both. For example, job titles that include the terms executive, manager, director, chief, supervisor, etc. are typically used for management jobs.
Thus, even if the Head of Computer Science Department is an assistant instructor, assistant professor, associate professor, or professor, then "the Head of the Computer Science Department" would still be equivalent to "the Director of the Computer Science Department"?


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:09:21 PM

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Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of their precious time out to go through my three last posts, and address those points in those posts?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
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