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'Personal titles' and 'job titles' Options
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:33:06 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hello A Cooperator.

I just looked back through this whole thread and I see that you actually start off in your first post with a wrong datum.

I think (from the way you have presented it) that it is directly from some article about 'titles'.

There are THREE not two 'titles'.
'Sir/Madam' are not personal titles (except for a very few people who are 'knights' and are called 'Sir John' or something like that)

The first is 'Personal Title'.
That is the title which goes in front of your name.
There are not many of these for normal or 'academic' people:
Mister Jones(Mr)
Missus Smith(Mrs)
Miss Black(Miss)
Miz Green (Ms) - this is the 'combination of 'Mrs' and 'Miss')
Sir John Jackson (it is only a personal title for someone who is a knight)
Doctor White (a person with any degree in medicine, who is practising in treating patients OR any person with any Doctorate - Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity)
Professor Brown

Military people and 'Peers' have others:
General Grant, Marshal Montgomery, Flight Lieutenant Smith, Petty Officer Jones
Lord, Earl, Prince


The second is 'title of address'
This is what you call them when you are speaking to them formally, or at the start of a letter. (the examples show the start of a letter)
Dear Sir, (It is the title of address for any male person when you do not use a name)
Dear Madam, ('Madam' is only a title of address, it is not a personal title for anyone)
Dear Sir or Madam,

(or, you could use their full name:
Dear Mr Jones,
Dear Ms Smith,
Dear Sir John, (only for a knight)
Dear Dr White,
etc

If you are speaking to someone informally, there are hundreds of 'titles of address' - different in different sections of society and different places - 'mate', 'pal', 'old man', etc etc.


The third is the Post Title or Job Title.
It can be specific or general - it depends what you want to say:
One person could put any of these as 'job title':
Lecturer
University lecturer
Lecturer in Mathematics
Lecturer at Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Trinity College, Oxford


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:46:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

Other people working in medicine (surgeons, dentists, etc) are usually called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').

***********
Anyone in any profession - with a degree or without a degree - can be called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').
'Mr', 'Ms' and 'Mrs' are NOT used without the name.

If you know the person's name, you can say "Hello, Mr Jones" or "Hello Ms Smith."
If you do not know the person's name, you can use 'Sir' or 'Madam,. - "Hello, Sir", "Hello Madam."



Thank you so much indeed, Drag0nspeaker,


Then can I understand that 'Mister' usually is written in its abbreviated form 'Mr'. And the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all are derived from earlier forms of mistress?


I have read from Wikipeida:
Quote:
Mister, usually written in its abbreviated form Mr. (US & HK) or Mr (US & UK & HK), is a commonly used English honorific for men under the rank of knighthood. The title derived from earlier forms of master, as the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all derived from earlier forms of mistress. Master is sometimes still used as an honorific for boys and young men, but its use is increasingly uncommon.

The modern plural form is Misters, although its usual formal abbreviation Messrs(.)[note 1] derives from use of the French title messieurs in the 18th century.[1][3] Messieurs is the plural of monsieur (originally mon sieur, "my lord"), formed by declining both of its constituent parts separately.[3]


Historically, mister—like Sir or my lord—was applied only to those above one's own status in the peerage. This understanding is now obsolete, as it was gradually expanded as a mark of respect to those of equal status and then to all gentlemen.[when?] It is now used indiscriminately.

for example, Mr Justice Crane (unless they are entitled to be addressed as Lord Justice). Where a forename is necessary to avoid ambiguity it is always used, for example Mr Justice Robert Goff to distinguish from a predecessor Mr Justice Goff



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:27:21 AM

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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Sarrriesfan wrote:
tunaafi wrote:
Romany wrote:
It's been out of the English language since before WW2.


It was still around in the 1950s, Until I was about eight or nine (1955), I used to receive (and send) birthday and Christmas cards addressed to Master F Name.


My Aunt still used it for my birthday and Christmas cards in the 1970s.


May I know why you've capitalised 'Aunt' there in your sentence above, Sarriesfan?
If it was typo, then please inform me since typos let non-native English learners think of that typos any further.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:02:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

The first is 'Personal Title'.
That is the title which goes in front of your name.
There are not many of these for normal or 'academic' people:
Mister Jones(Mr)
Missus Smith(Mrs)
Miss Black(Miss)
Miz Green (Ms) - this is the 'combination of 'Mrs' and 'Miss')
Sir John Jackson (it is only a personal title for someone who is a knight)
Doctor White (a person with any degree in medicine, who is practising in treating patients OR any person with any Doctorate - Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity)
Professor Brown


If you are speaking to someone informally, there are hundreds of 'titles of address' - different in different sections of society and different places - 'mate', 'pal', 'old man', etc etc.


The third is the Post Title or Job Title.
It can be specific or general - it depends what you want to say:
One person could put any of these as 'job title':
Lecturer
University lecturer
Lecturer in Mathematics
Lecturer at Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Oxford
Lecturer of Mathematics, Trinity College, Oxford


Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The people who use 'Doctor' as their personal title are:
1. people who have a doctorate (Doctor of Philosophy, Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Divinity . . .) which is the next degree above 'Bachelor of Arts', 'Bachelor of Science' and so on.
2. People who are practising medicine and have a bachelor's degree - MBBS, MBChB, MBBCh, MB BChir (Cantab), BM BCh (Oxon), BMBS

Other people working in medicine (surgeons, dentists, etc) are usually called 'Mister', 'Ms', and occasionally ('Mrs' or 'Miss').

***********

The word "professor" is both a job-title and a personal title. It is quite rare in Britain
When a person with a doctorate works in a university, he is called 'Doctor' (personal title) and his post title is 'lecturer' or 'reader'.

When he has worked there many years, has written books and articles and has "contributed significantly to the knowledge of the subject", he may become the head of the department, in charge of all the lecturers teaching one specific subject, when the current Professor retires or dies.
He then will have the personal title of 'Professor' and the job title of 'Professor of Mathematics' or 'Professor of Mediaeval Art' (whatever the name of the department he is in charge of).

'Professor' can be used with, or without the person's name - "Hello, Professor Jones" or "Hello, Professor."

A Professor is FAR above the 'rank' of a Doctor.

American universities don't have the same discrimination - any old person who works in a university can call themselves 'professor'.


Thank you so much indeed, Dragonspeaker

Yes, but some Assistant Professors wrote their letters of recommendation as follows:

Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX

The other doctor's recommendation letter is:----

Dr. Makarem Mohammed
Position: assistant professor
Dep.of Computer Engineering
Faculty of Engineering and Petroleum
Hadhramout University for Science and Technology
Hadhramout, Yemen
Email:XXXXXX


Note, according to above, I noticed that they wrote their job tile(position) as assistant professor. So, my questions are:
Firstly- are the positions written above meant to be the job titles? If so, then why they did write 'lecture' as you stated above "When a person with a doctorate works in a university, he is called 'Doctor' (personal title) and his post title is 'lecturer' or 'reader'."

Secondly- Must 'Assistant Professor' be capitalized in their first letters since I noticed one doctor capitalized 'Assistant Professor'. However, the other one didn't(Position: assistant professor). (I don't know if I can capitalise the initial letters of 'Assistant Professors' here or not, but they were capitalized in one of the letters of recommendation written by those doctors above)

Thirdly- As far as I know that academic staff' ranks can be granted as this order:
Teaching Assistant
Research Associate (There is no such rank in my own country)
Lecturer (There is no such rank in my own country)
Assistant Instructor
Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor
Professor

So, I think academic staff working at universities would be addressed in their personal tiles, and job titles as follows:
1- Personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: a teaching assistant( a person having only a bachelor's degree)
2- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: Research Associate (There is no such rank in my own country)
3- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title:Lecturer (There is no such rank in my own country)
4- personal title: Mr/Ms, job title: Assistant Instructor ( a person having a master's degree)
5- personal title: Dr, job title: Assistant Professor ( a person having a doctorate's degree (Ph.D)
6- Personal title: Dr, job title: Co-professor/Associate Professor(In my own country, Yemen, an assistant professor can be granted the rank of "Co-professor/Associate Professor" after he did some advanced researches.)
7- personal title: Professor, job title: Professor of Mathematics. (In my own country, Yemen, an associate professor can be granted the rank of "Professor" after he did some advanced researches.)

Finally: I am not sure if I can capitalise all of "
Teaching Assistant
Research Associate
Lecturer
Assistant Instructor
Assistant Professor
Co-professor/Associate Professor
Professor






Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:15:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 26,452
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX


He has decided not to bother using his personal title.

The practise is different in different countries - and even in different universities in the same country.
As he is not a full Professor, normally in Britain, his personal title would be "Dr".
He could have written "Dr Hesham Awadh"

"Assistant Professor" is one post title.
I assume that there is a full Professor who is the head of the whole faculty. Their will be a hierarchy, something like Dean (Head of the University), two or three Professors (Heads of whole Faculties), several Assistant Professors (Heads of Departments), many Lecturers.
"Head of Computer Science Department" is another post title, it is a little more specific. There may be several "Assistant Professors" at that university, but only one "Head of Computer Science Department".

*************
On the rest of your questions - there are no international or national rules.

It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.

The rules I know which may help answer your questions are:

A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Morgaen
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:40:58 PM

Rank: Member

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There isn't much else to add really; DragO explained everything the way it is.

I was looking up the screenshot on your first post, Cooperator, and the two examples you just gave.

I don't know if this is going to mess things up, but that's how I see it:

1)
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D. = the degree -> because some academics or scholars tend to sign as "XX_Name-XX, PhD" rather than using a personal title (Dr) as in "Dr XX_Name-XX" (one or the other)
(I don't really include periods in PhD and Dr, but I know it's common practice to write Ph.D. and Dr. - and that's probably the way it is in Yemen from what I can see)

Assistant Professor = job title

2)
Dr. Makarem Mohammed -> personal title
Position: assistant professor = job title -> personally, I would have capitalized this (Assistant Professor).

Other examples that would include personal titles and job titles:
Dr X, Lecturer, ...; Dr X, Assistant Professor, ...; Mr X, Research Assistant...

Other examples, this time as listed on staff profiles:

Prof. X [personal title + name]
Professor of Surgery and Consultant Surgeon [job title/position]
School of Medicine
Institute of XXX
Planet Jupiter
etc

Mrs Elaine XX [personal title + name]
Senior Secretary [job title/position]
School of Engineering
University of XXX
Planet Mars


In a school:
Mrs Jenny XX [personal title + name]
Deputy Principal [job title/position]
etc



A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:42:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
Neurons: 7,950
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Thank you both of you very much indeed.

Can I understand that 'Mister' usually is written in its abbreviated form 'Mr'. And the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all are derived from earlier forms of mistress?


I have read from Wikipeida:
Quote:
Mister, usually written in its abbreviated form Mr. (US & HK) or Mr (US & UK & HK), is a commonly used English honorific for men under the rank of knighthood. The title derived from earlier forms of master, as the equivalent female titles Mrs, Miss, and Ms all derived from earlier forms of mistress. Master is sometimes still used as an honorific for boys and young men, but its use is increasingly uncommon.

The modern plural form is Misters, although its usual formal abbreviation Messrs(.)[note 1] derives from use of the French title messieurs in the 18th century.[1][3] Messieurs is the plural of monsieur (originally mon sieur, "my lord"), formed by declining both of its constituent parts separately.[3]


Historically, mister—like Sir or my lord—was applied only to those above one's own status in the peerage. This understanding is now obsolete, as it was gradually expanded as a mark of respect to those of equal status and then to all gentlemen.[when?] It is now used indiscriminately.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:02:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 217
Neurons: 1,138
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:


Quote:
Alley Punk #1: Hey, mister! You got the time?
The Mask: As a matter of fact I do, Cubby.
[pulls out a wind up alarm clock]
The Mask: LOOK AT THAT! It's exactly two seconds before I honk your nose and pull your underwear over your head!



A very quick side question:
I understand to honk here means to break one's nose, is it so?
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:29:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX



It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.
A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Thank you so much, Drag0nspraker
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 2:33:42 PM
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Posts: 12,364
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

In no university I've been associated with (Australia, Papua New Guinea, South Africa, China, England) have there been: -

Teaching Assistants
Assistant Instructors
Assistant Professors
Co-professors

As Drago says: there's a lot of variation. So if I were in touch with someone who held a title or job I'd not heard of, I would just copy exactly - word for word and punctuation mark for punctuation mark - what they had written. That way one can't cause offence.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:31:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 26,452
Neurons: 141,825
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.

Yes - you are right - I would never expect to see the articles in those fields, and as titles, they should have capital letters.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, May 27, 2017 11:58:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
Neurons: 7,950
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
If I would like to write it as the following, then ' Doctor/Professor" in personal titles or 'Assistant Professor' and "Professor of Physics" should be capitalized in the first letters and omit the articles. I am asking here since there are Not written in the beginning of person's address details. I.e. "personal title" and "job title:" are before them.

Full name: John Gray
Personal title: A Doctor
Job title: An Assistant Professor

Full name: Richarge Jorge
Personal title: A Professor
Job title: A Professor of Physics.

Yes - you are right - I would never expect to see the articles in those fields, and as titles, they should have capital letters.



Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker,
I would like to answer my three questions below:

1- If a person is addressed with Dr or Professor in his personal title, how could he/she be addressed in his job title? I can say 'Assistant Professor in Computer Science, in Physics etc, and Professor of Physics, etc. Or it is enough to say 'Assistant Professor'/'Professor'?

2- If a person is a lawyer, and I am going to address that person in his job title, then I should capitalize the first letter of 'Lawyer', and no articles could be used? This could be applied for all other fields?

3- I think that "Freelancer" is a job title(a person who works freelance.), which should also be capitalized? However, whoever he is addressed with that job title, how they will be addressed in their personal titles?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:22:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 7,988
Neurons: 25,260
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:


Quote:
Alley Punk #1: Hey, mister! You got the time?
The Mask: As a matter of fact I do, Cubby.
[pulls out a wind up alarm clock]
The Mask: LOOK AT THAT! It's exactly two seconds before I honk your nose and pull your underwear over your head!



A very quick side question:
I understand to honk here means to break one's nose, is it so?


Not exactly. The literal meaning is to make a loud sound like a goose or a car horn (claxon).

This quote refers to a type of physical comedy or clowning that uses such a sound effect every time someone's nose is pulled. The threat is more about humiliation than physical abuse.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:39:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 7,988
Neurons: 25,260
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
A cooperator wrote:

3- I think that "Freelancer" is a job title(a person who works freelance.), which should also be capitalized? However, whoever he is addressed with that job title, how they will be addressed in their personal titles?


I'll preface this remark by admitting that I have been what is politely referred to as a "technical recruiter", but more commonly known as a "head-hunter" on good days, or "body snatcher" at my best.
Whistle

The euphemisms for "freelance" are several, including "independent contractor", "technical advisor", and "consultant". More colorful job descriptions have been "road warrior", "mercenary", and "freebooter". I would not consider "Freelancer" to be a title, but rather a description of the contractual relationship a person has to a company or a project. It's more a career strategy than a profession.

I have also worked for several decades as a freelance musician, and mostly people call me by my name — to my face.

What they called me behind my back I didn't care about, just as long as they called me and payed me.
Whistle

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 8:58:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 26,452
Neurons: 141,825
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi again.

Somehow this is becoming very complex.

A job title is a job title. It comes with the job. When you are hired or recruited, you are given a title (if you are promoted, the title will change).

Someone who is hired to work in an office just generally helping (no specialty) will probably be called 'Office Assistant' on their organisation chart. That is their job title.
If they have a specific specialty (say, they do all the filing for everyone), they would have a more specific job-title, like "Files Officer".

It is not grammar or any sort of rules - it is just the name your employer gives to your job/post.

LeonAzul's actual job-title would be "Technical Recruiter".
Mine is "Security Officer".

"Freelancer" is not a job title, really. Someone who is hired just for one job, then goes on to another company for another job is still hired for something. To be "Reporter" or "Programmer" or "Cleaner".
"Freelance Reporter" or "Freelance Computer Programmer" or "Freelance Cleaner" could be used as a title - if they are not employed, then they can choose their own job title.

It is not your job to invent job titles for anyone except your employees.

**********
A freelance employee will have his/her own personal title.
The personal title is not connected to the job title.

A person with a doctorate may be having a year away from home travelling and working as a cleaner every few weeks, just to make a bit of money.
He or she could be called "Doctor Smith" but their job title would be "Cleaner". But most people would probably call them "Mike" or "Mary".

Some computer programmers have no degree, though they can be the most experienced at the job.
If they are self-employed and hired for individual jobs they may be called "Freelance Programmer" or "Computer Consultant" - whatever they decide they are.
Their personal title would be "Mr." or "Ms."


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 7:26:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
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Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:


LeonAzul's actual job-title would be "Technical Recruiter".
Mine is "Security Officer".


Thanks a lot,
Drag0nspeaker, and LeonAzul,

1- you think that job-titles above should be capitalized?

2- you think the definition for job-tiles above is as follows:
Technical Recruiter is an individual who works to fill job openings in businesses or organizations. Recruiters will work from resumes or by actively soliciting individuals qualified for positions. A recruiter's job includes reviewing candidate's job experiences, negotiating salaries, and placing candidates in agreeable employment positions.

Security Officer is a security guard preventing risks and deter crime, watch out for looming danger, and report any crime they may encounter. ... A security guard or security officer is a person who is paid to protect property, assets, or people. They are usually privately and mostly comprised with civilian personnel.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 9:49:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 2,226
Neurons: 7,950
Location: Ḩāḑírah, Hadramawt, Yemen
Drag0nspeaker wrote:

**********
A freelance employee will have his/her own personal title.
The personal title is not connected to the job title.

A person with a doctorate may be having a year away from home travelling and working as a cleaner every few weeks, just to make a bit of money.
He or she could be called "Doctor Smith" but their job title would be "Cleaner". But most people would probably call them "Mike" or "Mary".

Some computer programmers have no degree, though they can be the most experienced at the job.
If they are self-employed and hired for individual jobs they may be called "Freelance Programmer" or "Computer Consultant" - whatever they decide they are.
Their personal title would be "Mr." or "Ms."




Thank you very much indeed, Drag0nspeaker, you have summarized it in your two lines above. However, I got confused when I noticed the personal_data-changing form for the DAAD-portal accounts.

Thus, could you please take some of your precious time out to address these points below:::

1- Could you please let me know what those abbreviations below stand for(screen shots below as a reference)?
Academic titles:
Arquitecta
Arquitecto
Assoc.Prof.
Assoc.Prof.Dr.
Asst.Prof.
Asst.Prof.MD
Dipl.-Ing.
Doc.Dr.
Dr SpAN.KIC
Dr SpOG
Dr.
Dr. (M.D)
Dr.des.
Dr.Dipl.-Ing.
Dr. Dr.
Dr. Dr. h.c.
Dr. Dr. med.
Dr. Dr.-Ing.
Dr. h.c.
Dr. h.c. mult.
Dr. habil.
Dr. med. vet.
Dr. mult.
Dr.Ing.
Dr. -Ing.
Dr. -Ing.
Dr.-Ing.habil.
Dr. med. vet.
Dr. mult.
Dr.-Ing.
Dr.-ing.habil.
Dr. jur.
Dr. med.
Drs.
DVM
Ing.
Lic.
M.D.
mgr
MUDr.
PD Dr.
PhD
Priv.-Doz.
Prof.
Prof. Dr.
Prof. Dr. Dr.
Prof. Dr. em.
Prof. Dr. med.
Prof. Dr. oec.
Prof .Dr. phil.
Prof. Dr. rer.
Prof. Dr.-Ing.
Prof. Dr.habil.
Prof. em. Dr.
Prof. Ing.DrSc.
Prof. RNDr.
Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.
Prof.Dr.rer.nat
Prof.Ing.habil.
RNDr.




2- You think those abbreviations in the 'academic title' are "job-titles/ post title"?


3- I think that personal titles can be :
Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, Dr, Professor, Sir.

However, in the DAAD form, I found, in the 'Sex' field, that 'Mr.' and 'Ms.' are used as the personal titles(first screen shot below)?

Thus, if a person has a doctorate, then she/he could be called "Doctor" as her/his personal title. However, there is no 'Doctor' in the 'Sex' field'(only Mr. or Ms.)

I.e. I think if 'Prof/M.D.' is selected in the 'academic title' field as a job-title, then 'Dr.' must be selected in 'Sex' field as the personal title since he/she must have had a doctorate. However, there is no 'Dr' listed in the 'Sex' field(only Mr. or Ms.)

As a result, I don't know if the 'Ms.' and 'Mr.' in the DAAD form in the 'Sex' section mean personal titles or not. If they had been personal titles, then either of them could be selected as personal title whatever I selected in the academic titles? I don't think so.


5- Why are 'Mr.' and 'Ms.' placed under 'Sex' filed in the DAAD form? I think they should be placed under 'personal title'?

6- You think that the 'personal title', Doctor or Professor could be shortened as 'Dr' or 'Prof'. For example,

"Professor Black" (Prof Black) (in charge of a whole department of a university)
"Doctor White" (Dr White) - someone who has a doctorate of any sort - medicine, philosophy, divinity etc)

7- I have been working at a university as a teaching assistant in Computer Science(I hold a BS.c in Computer Science). So, I am really confused about what I must select as my academic title in the 'academic title' field. I didn't find any 'Teaching Assistant' in the academic title' field. However, I am sure that I must select 'Mr.' in the 'Sex' field as my personal title














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A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:59:30 AM

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Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of his precious time out to reply to my final post?

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:24:04 AM

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I think one problem is that the question you are asking is about a German based website, and it is following rules of grammar and usage that are closer to their language. English grammar is not the same.

For example in English you might just call someone Doctor no matter what gender they are, but in German it is quite common to use "Herr Docktor" which is literally "Mr Doctor" or "Frau Doktor" "Mrs Doctor".

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Sarrriesfan
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:34:53 AM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien could be titled as writer, poet, philogist, and university professor (job).

His personal title was Mr, since he was only awarded as CBE, Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Had he been awarded as GBE or KBE, he would have been addressed as Sir.


I think his correct title in British English would be Professor Tolkien.

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leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 8:57:26 PM

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A cooperator wrote:
Could anyone please at this splendid forum take some of his precious time out to reply to my final post?


Many of these titles are not in English, as others have noted. To my eye, this particular page looks like Italian.

Think

In any case, if I understand you correctly, your immediate need is to to enter information into a software database concerning persons with whom you would like to keep in touch. The most important thing about that is getting (and pronouncing) the given name correct, and indicating the level of responsibility each person has.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, August 14, 2017 10:01:38 AM

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Hello.

Most of those sets of letters mean nothing at all -= they don't make sense in English.

'Arquitecta' is (I guess) Spanish or Portuquese for 'architect, female'.
'Arquitecto' is (I guess) Spanish or Portuquese for 'architect, male'.

'Dipl. Ing' is probably the same language for "Dipl.Eng" - "Diploma of Engineering".

All the doubled ones mean nothing - "Dr Dr" or "Dr Professor" or "Asst Prof Dr" - you are either a doctor or a professor. And if you are a doctor, you are not a doctor of doctoring.

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A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 1:41:26 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:


He has decided not to bother using his personal title.

The practise is different in different countries - and even in different universities in the same country.
As he is not a full Professor, normally in Britain, his personal title would be "Dr".
He could have written "Dr Hesham Awadh"

"Assistant Professor" is one post title.
I assume that there is a full Professor who is the head of the whole faculty. Their will be a hierarchy, something like Dean (Head of the University), two or three Professors (Heads of whole Faculties), several Assistant Professors (Heads of Departments), many Lecturers.
"Head of Computer Science Department" is another post title, it is a little more specific. There may be several "Assistant Professors" at that university, but only one "Head of Computer Science Department".

*************
On the rest of your questions - there are no international or national rules.

It depends on the traditions used in your specific university.

The rules I know which may help answer your questions are:

A job-title uses capital letters ("What is your post?" or "What is your position?" - Professor, Assistant Professor, Head of Department, Lecturer, Waste-Disposal Operative)

A job description doesn't use capitals ("What is your job?" - I'm a lecturer, I'm an assistant professor in a university, I'm a garbage collector)

Personal titles and Job titles are often not related (you may have
1. a lecturer in a university who is working on his Doctorate - called "Mr Smith" with post title "Lecturer"
2. A person who has finished his Doctorate who is a lecturer - called "Dr Brown" with post title "Lecturer")
3. It's possible that someone who had a PhD didn't want an academic career and is a businessman. He would still be "Dr Jones" and his job title might be "Office Manager, Exxon Corporation"


Thanks a lot, Drag0nspeaker

Here my referee stated his position as "assistant professor" although he has doctorate.


Quote:
Hesham Awadh, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Head of Computer Science Department
College of Sciences
Hadhramout University – Yemen
Email:XXXXX


However, I noticed in this reference contact form (screenshot below)the "position" could be "Manager", "Director" or "Lecturer" etc. There is no "Assistant professor"
So, my questions are:
1- why not saying "assistant professor" as position if my reference has a doctorate?
2- "position" means "job title"?



Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 1:45:54 AM

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Thank you all of you, sarriesfan, LeonAzul, Drag0nspeaker,
But that form is a German form written in English.
It is for DAAD scholarship programme to which I will be applying. What do you think I select as my position/job title from the "academic titles" drop-down menu?
I have been working as a teaching assistant in a university.

Also, why do you think the personal titles are listed under "Sex" in that form. Also, why do you think that "Mr." and "Ms." are available. If an applicant going to apply has a master's degree or doctorate, then he/she must select either Mr. or Ms.(Could you have you seen my screen shots posted before?)

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 3:20:39 AM

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Hello again.

I also have difficulty sometimes with 'drop-down menus' - they don't actually include the correct answer and there is no provision for "Other Title".

From those choices, I would put "Lecturer" as your title/position and "Director" as your referee's title/position (as he is a Head of Department).

As a note - I can see the "uploads.disquscdn.com" screenshot, but not the "dropbox" ones.
Dropbox have changed all their security/privacy settings recently.

I have no idea why they put personal titles in the "Sex" dropdown - usually it's just "male/female/don't wish to say". Possibly (a guess) this is the way it is done in German, and the web-designer didn't know - I do know that "Mrs" and "woman" are both "Frau" in German.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
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