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Famous novelist makes a fool of herself (for fair-minded readers) Options
TheParser
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:10:47 AM
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Dear Fair-Minded Readers:


I do not read novels.

I have just read an article in a super "liberal" magazine about Margaret Atwood, who is reported to be a famous Canadian novelist.

I could not believe the following words that appeared in that article.

"Now, [Ms.] Atwood argues, women have been put on notice that hard-won rights may be only provisional. 'It's the return to patriarchy,' she said, as she paged through the clippings. 'Look at his Cabinet!" she said of [President] Trump. 'Look at the kind of laws that people have put through in the states. Absolutely they want to overturn Roe v. Wade, and they will have to deal with the consequences if they do. You're going to have a lot more orphanages, aren't you? A lot more dead women, a lot more illegal abortions, a lot more families with children in them left without a mother, They want it 'back to the way it was.' "

Dear Fair-Minded Readers:

This kind of hysterical reasoning is why so many moderates (like you and me) do not respect the opinions of extreme "liberals" such as Ms. Atwood.

1. Roe v. Wade (a Supreme Court decision that legalized abortions in every state) will NOT be overturned.
2. There will NOT be more orphanages.
3. There will NOT be more dead women.
4. There will NOT be more illegal abortions.
5. There will NOT be a lot more children left without mothers.
6. There will NOT be a return to the way it was.





Have a nice weekend!



Source: Rebecca Mead, The Prophet of Dystopia in the April 17, 2017, issue of The New Yorker.
Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:18:47 AM

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TheParser wrote:

1. Roe v. Wade (a Supreme Court decision that legalized abortions in every state) will NOT be overturned.
2. There will NOT be more orphanages.
3. There will NOT be more dead women.
4. There will NOT be more illegal abortions.
5. There will NOT be a lot more children left without mothers.
6. There will NOT be a return to the way it was.


Always comforting to know TheParser has all the answers readily available via his crystal ball. Though I suggest he calm down a little, lest he be described as hysterical... Whistle
Gary98
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:24:50 AM

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TheParser wrote:
Dear Fair-Minded Readers:

I do not read novels.



Don't now or Never? Hard to believe one never read a novel. Good novels are such a pleasure to read.

People say crazy things to impress others.
palapaguy
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:45:43 AM

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Gary98 wrote:
TheParser wrote:
Dear Fair-Minded Readers:

I do not read novels.



Don't now or Never? Hard to believe one never read a novel. Good novels are such a pleasure to read.

People say crazy things to impress others.



"People say crazy things to impress others."

And they do so in the most annoying, intrusive and inappropriate ways, such as spamming grammar forums with their political diatribes.

tunaafi
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:56:32 AM

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TheParser wrote:


1. Roe v. Wade (a Supreme Court decision that legalized abortions in every state) will NOT be overturned.




Trump's words reported here, don't exactly inspire confidence about that.

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
dkf
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:09:28 AM
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The Parser is a "moderate" as I am a Roman gladiator.

There is simply no propaganda that teh Parser will not spew forth in favor of his/her/its (my vote is a Russian bot) favorite American autocrat. Nearly 100 days in and the Parser still has confidence in this buffoon is a sign of the Parser's ability to elevate hope-so for evidence.

Very truly yours,

A fair minded, but not stupid, reader
tunaafi
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:09:59 AM

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TheParser wrote:


This kind of hysterical reasoning is why so many moderates (like you and me) do not respect the opinions of extreme "liberals"


I do find it amusing that TheParser can dismiss the words of someone he disapproves of as 'hysterical reasoning', and then call himself a moderate.

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
Romany
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:45:06 PM
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One of the many attractions of embracing cognitive dissonance!
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:23:24 PM

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The word in the paragraph is WANT to overturn R v W. The consequences of an overturn - which are well documented in history - are listed. Those are facts. She said those are the consequences "IF THEY DO".


She did NOT say they will happen as was implied in the original post. It always helps to read carefully and interpret what is there. (especially without the extreme right spin of a Loyalist)

And they definitely DO WANT. Roe v Wade has been discussed several times - (Tuna's link) by Trump and others and in the questioning of Gorsuch.

See next posts as well.

::::::

She IS a very important writer - not just reported to be.

Contrary to the opinion of one person who wrote the title of this thread, Margaret Atwood says her story "The Handmaid's Tale" is "shooting back up in the best seller lists since the rise of Trump", a Republican majority, an all male cabinet, and a return to patriarchy.

Her book is being serialized on TV. She had already sold so many millions of copies of this book that she doesn't even need to now laugh all the way to the bank again. Not to mention all her other books that have sold millions and all the prestigious prizes she has won.

Edited - here's the link to the article in the original post for anyone interested to read all the thousands of other words in the interview of this great sensible woman and writer and someone who has fought for women all her life.

Fighting for women's rights does not automatically make her a liberal - and she's definitely not hysterical. Or extreme. Anybody who has read any of her work would know this.

But then anybody who has read her books would be able to interpret the interview correctly too.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/17/margaret-atwood-the-prophet-of-dystopia


A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:08:45 PM

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Did you know that in Texas they have a bill that would force a woman to have a defective child by lying to her about the results of tests if there is an anomaly with the fetus? Bill SB 25. It came up in March - may already be passed. That is criminal in my opinion.

Did you know Atwood's book "The Handmaid's Tale" was banned in Texas? I'm not surprised. See next post about her book.

Did you know there was a "leak of a draft executive order that would have enshrined conservative Christian beliefs on the subject, as well as on marriage and gender, in policy? It reportedly went unsigned by Mr Trump only after the intervention of his daughter, Ivanka, and her husband Jared Kushner."

It always makes me laugh when Republicans say they want less government interference. But that is only when it comes to freedom in making money and not worrying about others or the economy. When it comes to controlling women they want as much control as they can get.

On his very first working day Trump signed an executive order withdrawing federal funds from overseas women’s-health organizations that offer abortion services. (Canada is donating more to help make up for it.)

State governments are passing laws that make it hard for a woman to get not only an abortion but the morning after pill and birth control.

"Texas congressman Tony Tinderholt introduced a bill that sought to make it a criminal offence to have an abortion in his state at any stage, regardless of whether a woman had conceived following rape or incest...And in Arkansas, a pregnant woman’s husband will have the power to stop her from having an abortion, even in cases of rape, under a new law."

"In January Vice President Mike Pence attended the anti-abortion March For Life, for which Mr Trump also tweeted his “full support”.






A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:18:30 PM

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Did you know Atwood got the idea for the title "handmaid" from an article in the mid eighties about a real Catholic congregation in New Jersey, USA, being taken over by a fundamentalist sect in which wives were called “handmaidens”—a word that Atwood had underlined?

The book "describes a repressive and highly stratified American society in which women are forced into domestic servitude and made to bear the children of the ruling class...“Unwomen”, who may be sterile, feminists, or politically incompatible with the regime, are made to work in agricultural colonies."

Everything in the book has an historical antecedent or a modern point of comparison...Trump’s vilification of Hillary Clinton, Atwood believes, is more explicable when seen through the lens of the Puritan witch-hunts. “You can find Web sites that say Hillary was actually a Satanist with demonic powers..."


Quotes in all posts are also from these two sources as well as the link of the OP.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-puritan-values-donald-trump-republican-party-abortion-a7575796.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/the-handmaids-tale-margaret-atwood-activists-texas-senate-floor-red-robes-a7640956.html

(Hello same Guest from 2009.)


A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:31:27 PM

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One more post - a quote from the interview in the "New Yorker".

If the election of Donald Trump were fiction, Atwood maintains, it would be too implausible to satisfy readers. “There are too many wild cards—you want me to believe that the F.B.I. stood up and said this, and that the guy over at WikiLeaks did that?” she said. “Fiction has to be something that people would actually believe. If you had published it last June, everybody would have said, ‘That is never going to happen.’ 

” Atwood is a buoyant doomsayer. Like a skilled doctor, she takes evident satisfaction in providing an accurate diagnosis, even when the cultural prognosis is bleak. She attended the Toronto iteration of the Women’s March, wearing a wide-brimmed floppy hat the color of Pepto-Bismol: not so much a pussy hat as the chapeau of a lioness.

Among the signs she saw that day, her favorite was one held by a woman close to her own age; it said, "I can't believe i’m still holding this fucking sign.” Atwood remarked, “After sixty years, why are we doing this again? But, as you know, in any area of life, it’s push and pushback. We have had the pushback, and now we are going to have the push again.”


A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Epiphileon
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:54:40 AM

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Romany wrote:

One of the many attractions of embracing cognitive dissonance!


Wow Rom, I think my eyebrows nearly climbed into my hairline when I read that. It may be the single most terrifying sentence I have ever read.
Although it immediately leaped out of the context you said it in, and was perceived as a stand alone conceptual construct. It was a unique experience, an immediate state of being penultimately aghast!
Thank you, that was fascinating.
:)

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Romany
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 4:18:24 AM
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Epi -

You mean that even though it wasn't presented in caps, with daggers of exclamation marks, or in large font, you still read it? And it still had impact?

Well, well.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 5:01:56 AM

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Hope123 wrote:

Did you know Atwood's book "The Handmaid's Tale" was banned in Texas?
As a fair-minded reader, I should point out that all I could find out about this was:

A Judson, Tex., school superintendent banned the novel from an advanced placement English curriculum after a parent complained that it was sexually explicit and offensive to Christians. In doing so, the superintendent overruled the recommendation by a committee of teachers, students, and parents. The committee appealed the decision to the school board, which overruled the superintendent in 2006.

http://entertainment.time.com/2007/10/02/top-10-book-controversies/



Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
OnTheVerge
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:09:11 AM

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TheParser wrote:
Dear Fair-Minded Readers:



Dear Fair-Minded Readers:

This kind of hysterical reasoning is why so many moderates (like you and me) do not respect the opinions of extreme "liberals" such as Ms. Atwood.

1. Roe v. Wade (a Supreme Court decision that legalized abortions in every state) will NOT be overturned.
Roe v Wade CAN be overturned and has a much better chance, with Neil Gorsuch being on the court
2. There will NOT be more orphanages.
That true... there won't unless they are paid for by non-profits. Due to conservative insistence on small government everywhere except when it comes to women's bodies...blah, blah, blah, blah!
3. There will NOT be more dead women.
Wrong, when abortions were illegal in the US and NYC especially, women were dying on park benches after having backroom abortions and scores of prostitutes and drug addicted women's bodies have been found in unmarked shallow graves across America over the years, having died from botched ABORTIONS! Many of them still had the remains of desiccated fetus' in what was left of their uteri
4. There will NOT be more illegal abortions.
Really, then where do you think they will go to get them, Mars? On no, wait...they'll go to Canada! At least in Canada, people are treated as PEOPLE and not like herded ANIMALS. So yeah let's burden Canada with the consequences of the Trump administrations idiotic policies?!?!
5. There will NOT be a lot more children left without mothers.
That is completely untrue, The increase, year on year, of motherless children did a 180 turn and went on to decrease an average of 31% nationwide after Roe v Wade was ruled on in the early 70s
6. There will NOT be a return to the way it was.
It is already well on its way, open your eyes and look around.

Have a nice weekend!

You too, I guess it's really lovely living in that fantasy Universe you've created for yourself.


Source: Rebecca Mead, The Prophet of Dystopia in the April 17, 2017, issue of The New Yorker.




Your audacious ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogant disdain toward people who have principles, values and ideas unlike your own





While timorous knowledge stands considering, audacious ignorance hath done the deed
TheParser
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:32:34 AM
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Gary98 wrote:


Don't now or Never? Hard to believe one never read a novel. Good novels are such a pleasure to read.




Hello, Gary:

I was forced to read novels in secondary school, but I have never read novels since. I am glad that you like them, but you should remember that people have different interests.


Have a nice weekend!

TheParser
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:42:20 AM
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palapaguy wrote:
[quote=Gary98]


"People say crazy things to impress others."

And they do so in the most annoying, intrusive and inappropriate ways, such as spamming grammar forums with their political diatribes.




Thank you, Palapaguy, for being so honest.

Yes, that is the problem with this forum.

Almost all of the posters (not necessarily all the readers) are so full of hatred for President Trump that they just "spam grammar forums with their political diatribes."

They go out of their minds if someone disagrees with them.

Thanks again for telling it as it is.
TheParser
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 8:37:59 AM
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Good morning, OnTheVerge:

I have read all the posts in this thread except those of four certain individuals.

I notice that your post was the only one that more or less stayed on topic.

I think (of course, I do not know) that you actually fear that Roe v. Wade will be overturned.

I do hope that you will try to approach this matter with calmness and common sense.


1. Everyone admits that the Supreme Court DOES listen to public opinion.
2. No Supreme Court would dare overturn Roe v. Wade.
3. Maybe (only maybe!), the Court would return the decision to each state. But that is highly improbable, too. The uproar would be politically disastrous for the nation.
4. Abortion is here to stay.
5. Personally, I think that abortion should be readily available. (This country and world need fewer people, not more.)

I have ignored your personal insults, for I can feel your pain over what happened on November 8.

Instead of lashing out at me and other people who disagree with you, you might want to spend more time helping the Democrats to take back the Congress.

Then Congress could do many things to block President Trump, just as the Republican Congress did everything possible to block President Obama.






I do wish you a nice weekend up there in Frisco.




P.S. Some observers say that you "liberals" are whipping up hysteria over everything so that there is a big turnout of Democrats in 2018 for Congressional elections. As a fair-minded observer, I realize that such a tactic is, indeed, effective!
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:17:25 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
Romany wrote:

One of the many attractions of embracing cognitive dissonance!


Wow Rom, I think my eyebrows nearly climbed into my hairline when I read that. It may be the single most terrifying sentence I have ever read.
Although it immediately leaped out of the context you said it in, and was perceived as a stand alone conceptual construct. It was a unique experience, an immediate state of being penultimately aghast!
Thank you, that was fascinating.
:)


Romany does have a way with words and with perspicacity!


A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:43:48 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

Did you know Atwood's book "The Handmaid's Tale" was banned in Texas?
As a fair-minded reader, I should point out that all I could find out about this was:

A Judson, Tex., school superintendent banned the novel from an advanced placement English curriculum after a parent complained that it was sexually explicit and offensive to Christians. In doing so, the superintendent overruled the recommendation by a committee of teachers, students, and parents. The committee appealed the decision to the school board, which overruled the superintendent in 2006.

http://entertainment.time.com/2007/10/02/top-10-book-controversies/



Thanks, Tuna. Glad to hear the super was overruled later. I did read what she responded to them but it did not give an outcome.

A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. Albert Einstein
Andrew Schultz
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:25:40 PM

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TheParser's logic seems to me to be in the vein of "The bullies aren't going to take your lunch money. You don't have any proof. They just want to make fun of you."

The thing is that these sorts of rights have been chipped away in a lot of places. I believe Alabama only has one place where abortions are legal. So while it's technically legal, it's impossible. And each time a law is passed that say "abortions are still legal," it's dangerous, because these laws do more than just restrict abortions or make them less safe. They close Planned Parenthood etc. I'm reminded of Arthur Dent searching for the plans to demolish his home in Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on-display-on-display-i-eventually

And if certain Supreme Court justices die/retire, well, things can and will change quickly. We'll get another Gorsuch who has a nice smile and folksy manner to hide harsh views and decision. Then someone can sue in the right court, one friendly to Conservative causes, and if/when a case makes it all the way up, there's a very real chance it can pass. So it's not just about the Supreme Court.

And even if it doesn't, people's rights may be tied up in a lower court, long enough to make a very real impact on people's lives.

I particularly enjoy the idiom section of this fine website.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 4:47:31 AM

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I have just Googled Margaret Atwood and though well credentialed she obviously is, I have never read one of her books.

I read a novel around every three days, so obviously not my section in the library.
TheParser
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:01:50 AM
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Andrew Schultz wrote:
I believe Alabama only has one place where abortions are legal. So while it's technically legal, it's impossible.




Thank you, Mr. Schultz, for your 90% civil response. (The first sentence was a bit silly, in my opinion.)

I do hope that reasonable "liberals" will try to be more calm.

I have read that, yes, in some states there are very few places where an abortion can be obtained.

Of course, some people believe that is the price that we pay for states' rights.

After all, let's not forget that the super "liberal" state of California is now touting states' rights as an excuse for allowing sanctuary cities.




Women will continue to get abortions if they want them.


Have a pleasant new week!
TheParser
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:08:08 AM
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Tovarish wrote:


I read a novel around every three days.




That's great!

According to the article, Ms. Atwood has won several distinguished book awards.

She is considered by some people to be an icon of the feminist movement.

Hopefully, you will be able to find some of her books somewhere. (Maybe at Amazon?)



I wish you a pleasant new week!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 9:20:24 AM

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TheParser wrote:


I have read all the posts in this thread except those of four certain individuals.

I notice that your post was the only one that more or less stayed on topic.



If you didn't read the posts of those four certain individuals, how can you say they were more or less off topic?

Have a nice day, though ;-)


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Andrew Schultz
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 12:38:40 PM

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TheParser, my point in the sentence was a serious one, and if you're giving me a 90%, thanks but no thanks for being graded. I don't really come here for an assessment like that, especially when the implication is that other posters I respect aren't as, well, "in line" as me. I'd prefer not to be used that way.

But often when one makes a serious point, it needs a little humor. And, well, the thrust of your argument seems to be "it's not illegal to get abortions, so don't complain." When it's not just about abortions, and if something is horrendously impractical, it might as well be illegal for people without means (e.g. poor people who may most need the services). The right gives a lot of slippery slope arguments and, yes, it is a slippery slope from "well there's one place in a pretty big state you can go" to "The last community with an abortion clinic may have good citizens ashamed of it. Why should they feel inferior to the rest of the state? Let's respect them and close it!" or "We say we're against abortion, but sneaky people out there can still get one."

One thing I've found about arguments from the Right/Trumpism is that people play the "well you still have SOME rights, so shut up" card, along with the "well, Trump has momentum, so just roll over and let him do more." Combining these two, it says: shut up and just let it happen. It's going to, anyway. You may not play both. But be assured we hear them.

That's un-American, and that's what a lot of us on this board are fighting against. People deserve to stand up for themselves before they're defeated.

There are a lot of novels on this subject, for a variety of age groups. True, they consist of made-up events. But knowing they are imaginary helps--you feel less as though the author is trying to persuade you and more imagining how things are or could be. You can decide what you like and don't like from them, or to imagine how life could be, or maybe even see how someone else imagined things even better than you did, because you know they are or had the same fears, etc. Novels...well, they help build empathy.

Even if they're not comic novels, they might help you have a nicer day.

I particularly enjoy the idiom section of this fine website.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 1:59:23 PM

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I think this is all that's missing from this thread.

I give Parser's opening post a C minus.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:49:05 PM
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Andrew Schultz wrote:
I don't really come here for an assessment like that, especially when the implication is that other posters I respect aren't as, well, "in line" as me. I'd prefer not to be used that way.




I apologize, sir.

I would not want your "liberal" friends to think ill of you.

Don't worry.

I shan't be responding to you anymore.


Goodbye.
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:51:14 PM
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progpen wrote:


I give Parser's opening post a C minus.



Thank you, Teacher.

I really expected an "A," for everyone knows that you "liberals" give A's to everyone, lest a lower grade hurt their feelings.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 4:45:27 PM

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TheParser wrote:
progpen wrote:


I give Parser's opening post a C minus.



Thank you, Teacher.

I really expected an "A," for everyone knows that you "liberals" give A's to everyone, lest a lower grade hurt their feelings.


Ooh, ouch, retract those claws ;-)

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:25:30 PM
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progpen wrote:




Ooh, ouch, retract those claws ;-)



Wow!

A "liberal" who actually has a sense of humor!



whatson
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:21:18 PM
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Parser:
You must have had a fulfilling life being on one side of an imaginary fence
and in the business of quotationmarking until ripe old age.

May I ask you to forgo wishing my A nice day which you do so adroitly?

TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 6:54:24 AM
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whatson wrote:


May I ask you to forgo wishing my A nice day which you do so adroitly?




I do not remember wishing you a nice day.

If I did, I made a mistake and humbly apologize.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:59:47 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 1,224
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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
Andrew Schultz wrote:
One thing I've found about arguments from the Right/Trumpism is that people play the "well you still have SOME rights, so shut up" card, along with the "well, Trump has momentum, so just roll over and let him do more." Combining these two, it says: shut up and just let it happen. It's going to, anyway. You may not play both. But be assured we hear them.

That's un-American, and that's what a lot of us on this board are fighting against. People deserve to stand up for themselves before they're defeated.


And that's where these discussions should always lead. The attacks on our rights and hard won freedoms are un-American and anti-American. This should always come up as conversations start and should always be there to help end the conversation.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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