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Web inventor Sir Tim Berners-Lee slams UK and US net plans Options
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 1:16:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,405
Neurons: 48,125
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39490324

Trump signed the repeal of privacy law today, the one we discussed in another thread. Some were hoping he would stick up for the ordinary person and not the business interests but he didn't.

The news on the link above is also from today about allowing law enforcement to break encryption. It is a conundrum. We want terrorists caught but still need privacy.

It comes at a time when devices were found yesterday all around the Canadian Parliament that allow whoever put them there to isten in to phone calls and even read texts. It is a matter of national security that they find out who. Law enforcement and other Canadian agencies have admitted to using them for ten years, and even foreign governments have been known to do so. They know for sure Russia has done it before. So they are investigating.

They are also investigating law enforcement getting a legal warrant to view a journalist's phone to find out his sources while investigating a member of their own force. Although journalists have now changed their methods of contacts, sources are no longer talking to the journalists as much. Investigative journalism is how authorities are kept accountable.

It seems to me all these things I have mentioned above come under the umbrella of privacy concerns.

Do you agree with Berners-Lee? What about warrants to view journalists' phones when looking for terrorists?



The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:32:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,470
Neurons: 27,478
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Before I respond, I would like to add a link to the actual open letter as Tim Lee published it in several languages.

http://webfoundation.org/2017/03/web-turns-28-letter/

I believe this would facilitate keeping on-topic. This is a very broad, nuanced, and dynamic area of discussion, and I fear we would be just spinning our wheels if there weren't some focus.

Angel

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 3:17:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,470
Neurons: 27,478
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Hope123 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39490324

Trump signed the repeal of privacy law today, the one we discussed in another thread. Some were hoping he would stick up for the ordinary person and not the business interests but he didn't.



The connection here is that Trump favors the interests of business over the individual – no surprise there – and Berners-Lee observed that corporate interests are ironically destroying the notion of voluntary exchange and the trust which is the very fabric of the internet, not to mention free enterprise itself.

1) We’ve lost control of our personal data

At this time, opting out is still an option.
     A) Please establish accounts with only several banks, credit lenders, vendors, etc. who seem to be trustworthy, then monitor their behavior. Anyone who violates your trust loses your custom.
     B) Anyone who demands that you create an account (with exceptions) loses your custom. The exceptions include transaction assurance services like PayPal, in which case see point A)

2) It’s too easy for misinformation to spread on the web

With all due respect, MR B-L, this is not a bug, it's a feature. Chan4 is not the scourge, but rather the apotheosis of the Luciferian WorldWideWeb in which individuals are bringers of light. Freedom to speak the truth is only possible with freedom to fantasize, as well as freedom to expose one's arse. Respectful persons shall choose the appropriate emporia for such exhibitions. Tender spirits shall keep their distance from Chan4. ;)

     Yet I emphatically agree that the emergence of infotainment™ as the cynically 'normal' resource of news gives me pause. This is underscored by several attempts to characterize both Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert as 'journalists' even though each has vociferously rejected such a claim, but rather each has considered himself an entertaining satirist.

Faux News indeed.
Think

3) Political advertising online needs transparency and understanding

Translation: Our kids need education that gives them the basic skills to think critically and behave responsibly within a social and political context: reading, writing, and arithmetic. Mastery of Analysis, Poetry, and Mathematics is derived from mastery of these fundamental skills.
Full. Stop.
No advertising and no propaganda has a determinant effect unless the recipients have been carefully taught.

Otherwise, the overall trend is emerging as something even more ominous than either TB-L nor DJT has publicly admitted. The US FCC has hinted at a general policy of abdicating its role as supervisor of domain name registries in favor of a more "collaborative" role. This is one instance where the concept of the USA as a 'beacon of freedom' might actually be accurate. China, in particular, is eager to extend hegemony over what is or is not acceptable and open for official examination as transmitted via any medium, including the internet.

Question:

Which is more fearsome: a state, a corporation, or a cult?
Think


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
OnTheVerge
Posted: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 4:06:58 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/7/2014
Posts: 228
Neurons: 476,520
Location: San Francisco, California, United States
leonAzul wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39490324

Trump signed the repeal of privacy law today, the one we discussed in another thread. Some were hoping he would stick up for the ordinary person and not the business interests but he didn't.





3) Political advertising online needs transparency and understanding

Translation: Our kids need education that gives them the basic skills to think critically and behave responsibly within a social and political context: reading, writing, and arithmetic. Mastery of Analysis, Poetry, and Mathematics is derived from mastery of these fundamental skills.
Full. Stop.
No advertising and no propaganda has a determinant effect unless the recipients have been carefully taught.

True: It's the people they are taught by like Fox & Breitbart & Russia and YES the USA

Otherwise, the overall trend is emerging as something even more ominous than either TB-L nor DJT has publicly admitted. The US FCC has hinted at a general policy of abdicating its role as supervisor of domain name registries in favor of a more "collaborative" role. This is one instance where the concept of the USA as a 'beacon of freedom' might actually be accurate. China, in particular, is eager to extend hegemony over what is or is not acceptable and open for official examination as transmitted via any medium, including the internet.

Question:

Which is more fearsome: a state, a corporation, or a cult?
Think


Depends on the context, to the person it's the corporation, to the people it's the state. As far as the cult goes, so goes the weak mind!



The world will never starve for want of wonders, but only for want of people who wonder.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 10:08:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,405
Neurons: 48,125
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Thanks, guys. You are exactly the ones in the know that I wanted to learn from.

Thanks for the link, Leon. I still refer to notes I took from you a long time ago about computer safety. But if your ISP sells you out, there is not much you can do. So far in Canada ISPs have to ask permission.

There is nothing on my iPad and even less on my iPhone that would matter if anybody got ahold of them. My theory is to never put anything sensitive in writing and if it is really sensitive, talk in person. I never have anything that sensitive. 😀

Except when shopping. If they can break encryption and get your credit card number etc. there is nothing you can do except as Leon points out, deal only with reputable companies and pay attention. My husband has done his banking online for many years now and would hate to give that up.

If people become afraid it could certainly damage online business or at least give it a setback, right?

When you say deal with reputable companies, that would not stop hackers etc from breaking in to the reputable company and being able to break encryption, right? How is that any different from how hackers get your personal info now?

:::

Hard to tell - I like OTV's POV.

I would have said either state or corporation, as a cult is usually much smaller. However, that was before November 8, 2016 and since. (That has changed my viewpoint, even about history.) A cult can create a state. TFD - cult - Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

But corporations often control states and can do major irreversible damage to people, animals, and the environment - think chemicals spread on the earth.

So I say corporations. It always comes down to money.

:::::

Why would the FCC give up its role with domains when it knows how China operates?

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, April 6, 2017 1:06:00 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,470
Neurons: 27,478
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
OnTheVerge wrote:

True: It's the people they are taught by like Fox & Breitbart & Russia and YES the USA


I have a minor quibble with this comment: I make a distinction between becoming educated and becoming informed.

The information is out there to be gleaned. It requires bias to select which information is meaningful. The best bias is acquired through experience, yet it doesn't take much thought to understand that experience can be facilitated by the preparation afforded by education. Especially in a forum dedicated to "Science and Technology", the role of education ought to be appreciated. If this were a forum dedicated to "Religion and Philosophy", I might even assert that education would be sacrosanct.

Think

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, April 6, 2017 2:21:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,470
Neurons: 27,478
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Hope123 wrote:
But if your ISP sells you out, there is not much you can do. So far in Canada ISPs have to ask permission.

They are in it for the money. If you withdraw your custom, they shall pay attention.

Hope123 wrote:

There is nothing on my iPad and even less on my iPhone that would matter if anybody got ahold of them. My theory is to never put anything sensitive in writing and if it is really sensitive, talk in person. I never have anything that sensitive. 😀

Self censorship is self defeating. The point is not to control what you think, feel, or say, but rather to control with whom these are shared. ;)

Hope123 wrote:
My husband has done his banking online for many years now and would hate to give that up.

Because of my gypsy itinerant ways, I too have relied on remote banking, going back to 90s and secure dial-up connections. There is no doubt that this technology is empowering, yet one needs to be aware that it does not remove the need for caution. In other words, computerized transactions are not inherently worse than face to face transactions; the computerized versions only multiply the potential risks that naturally occur in life. This has been going on since before the telegraph; there's a reason why transactions over the telephone were once considered "phony".

Think

Hope123 wrote:

If people become afraid it could certainly damage online business or at least give it a setback, right?


Bingo! This is why, for the moment, on-line transactions are more secure than telephone or even point-of-sale (POS) credit card transactions.

Hope123 wrote:

When you say deal with reputable companies, that would not stop hackers etc from breaking in to the reputable company and being able to break encryption, right? How is that any different from how hackers get your personal info now?

This is why I really take umbrage with the current use of the word "hacker".

A "hack" is merely a way to use something in a way for which it was not originally intended. Its etymology goes back to drivers who work for hire, aka taxis. They were the ones who got things done when regular transport was not available, or perhaps unadvisable.

Someone who forcibly breaks into and violates a person or thing is more properly described as a "rapist" or "burglar". The English language has pre-existing words for this; why can't we just agree to use them?

Hope123 wrote:

I would have said either state or corporation, as a cult is usually much smaller. However, that was before November 8, 2016 and since. (That has changed my viewpoint, even about history.) A cult can create a state. TFD - cult - Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

There are so many examples that I would prefer to limit my comment to these few during the 20th century.

It was a cultist who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand, the casus belli of the Great War.

It was a cultist who instigated WWII.

There are more examples, but I believe y'all catch my drift.

Hope123 wrote:

Why would the FCC give up its role with domains when it knows how China operates?


Ask President Друмпф !

Whistle

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, April 6, 2017 3:32:52 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,405
Neurons: 48,125
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Thanks, Leon.

"Self censorship is self defeating. The point is not to control what you think, feel, or say, but rather to control with whom these are shared. ;)"

Yeah, you are right. Unless you are betrayed by someone you thought was your friend. Voice of experience. Once burned etc.

The past is to be respected/acknowledged, not worshipped. It is in our future we will find our greatness. Pierre Trudeau
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