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Current president accuses President Obama of wire-tapping his NYC offices Options
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 8:38:40 AM

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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

The current president "has accused Barack Obama of “wire tapping” his offices in New York City before the presidential election in November last year."


Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!
March 4, 2017

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!
March 4, 2017

There has been no effort to support any of these accusations. But it does make a really important sounding headline on Fox and breitbart.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 8:55:28 AM

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No evidence that you're aware of, and, you can't trust Obama at all -- he's the dirtiest president we've ever had.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 8:59:40 AM

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Wilmar (USA) wrote:
No evidence that you're aware of, and, you can't trust Obama at all -- he's the dirtiest president we've ever had.


Thank you Wil. I needed a good chuckle.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
almo 1
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 9:00:37 AM
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Joined: 10/16/2016
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Location: Fussa, Tokyo, Japan



Stonewalled: My Fight for Truth Against the Forces of Obstruction, Intimidation, and Harassment in Obama's Washington

www.goodreads.com/book/show/20483097




My Computer’s Intruders


Reeeeeeeeeee.”

The noise is coming from my personal Apple desktop computer in the small office adjacent to my bedroom. It’s starting up.

On its own.

“Reeeeeee . . . chik chik chik chik,” says the computer as it shakes itself awake.

The electronic sounds stir me from sleep. I squint my eyes at the clock radio on the table next to the bed. The numbers blink back: “3:14 a.m.”

Only a day earlier, my CBS-issued Toshiba laptop, perched at the foot of my bed, had whirred to life on its own. That too had been untouched by human hands. What time was that? I think it was 4 a.m.

Some nights, both computers spark to life, one after the other. A cacophony of microprocessors interrupting the normal sounds of the night. After thirty seconds, maybe a minute, they go back to sleep. I know this is not normal computer behavior.

My husband, a sound sleeper, snores through it all. Half asleep, I try to remember how long ago my computers first started going rogue. A year? Two? It no longer startles me. But it’s definitely piquing my curiosity.

It’s October 2012, and I’ve been digging into the September 11 terrorist attacks on Americans at the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya. It’s the most interesting puzzle I’ve come across since the Fast and Furious gunwalking story, which led to international headlines and questions that remain unanswered.

Solving these kinds of puzzles is probably the challenge that drives me most. There’s nothing like an unsolved mystery to keep me at the computer or on the phone until one or two in the morning. Most mysteries can be solved, you just have to find the information. But too often, the keepers of the information don’t want to give it up . . . even when the information belongs to the public.

Now my computers offer a new mystery to unravel. I already had begun mentioning these unusual happenings to acquaintances who work in secretive corners of government and understand such things. Connections I’d met through friends and contacts in the northwest Virginia enclaves. Here, so many work for—or recently retired from—one of the “alphabet agencies.” CIA. FBI. NSA. DIA. They’re concerned about what I’m experiencing. They think something’s going on. Somebody, they tell me, is making my computers behave that way.

They’re also worried about my home phone. It’s practically unusable now. Often, when I call home, it only rings once on the receiving end. But on my end, it keeps ringing and then connects somewhere else. Nobody’s there. Other times, it disconnects in the middle of calls. There are clicks and buzzes. My friends who call hear the strange noises and ask about them. I get used to the routine of callers suggesting, half-jokingly, “Is your phone tapped?” My whole family’s tired of it. Verizon has been to the house over and over again but can’t fix whatever’s wrong.

On top of that, my home alarm system has begun chirping a nightly warning that my phone line is having “trouble” of an unidentified nature. It chirps until I get out of bed and reset it. Every night. Different times.

I’m losing sleep.

I’m the one who tries to get information from the keepers and I can be relentless. That kind of tenacity doesn’t always make friends, not even at CBS News, which has built an impressive record for dogged reporting in the tradition of Edward R. Murrow, Eric Sevareid, and Mike Wallace. But that’s okay. I’m not in journalism to make friends.

My job is to remind politicians and government officials as to who they work for. Some of them have forgotten. They think they personally own your tax dollars. They think they own the information their agencies gather on the public’s behalf. They think they’re entitled to keep that information from the rest of us and—make no mistake—they’re bloody incensed that we want it.

The Benghazi mystery is proving especially difficult. The feds are keeping a suspiciously tight clamp on details. They won’t even say how long the attacks went on or when they ended. What they do reveal sometimes contradicts information provided by their sister agencies. And some of the most basic, important questions? They won’t address at all.

For months, the Obama administration has dismissed all questions as partisan witch-hunting. And why not? That approach has proven successful, at least among some colleagues in the news media. They’re apparently satisfied with the limited answers.


progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 9:12:27 AM

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And thank you almo, sounds like a real page turner. Maybe a little like this one?
https://www.amazon.com/9-11-Big-Thierry-Meyssan/dp/1592090265



Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Andrew Schultz
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 11:20:24 AM

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Especially since it's the FBI that handles this stuff.

The same FBI whose chief dropped the comment about "NEW INFORMATION" about Clinton 10 days before the election that wasn't.

progpen wrote:
And thank you almo, sounds like a real page turner. Maybe a little like this one?
https://www.amazon.com/9-11-Big-Thierry-Meyssan/dp/1592090265



No way I'm actually reading the book, but the reviews are pure comedy gold.

I particularly enjoy the idiom section of this fine website.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 12:29:46 PM

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Just another of Trump's Conspiracy theories but he had better have some pretty good proof of this accusation. If not, I hope Obama has enough cause for legal action against him. His campaign may have gotten caught up in the routine tapping of Russia by the authorities, but to accuse Obama himself of tapping his own lines is a different story right out of Breitbart.

:::

I could add to my list of conspiracy theories Trump has bought into and taught to his supporters, but these should be enough for any critical thinker to realize how T functions. When does the "boy who cried wolf " once too often happen with supporters? When do they start to clue in? What is the tipping point?

::::;

The Short List of Conspiracy Theories Trump and His Supporters Believe

Birther Movement
The election is rigged.
The media is the "enemy of the people". (He probably doesn't even know the historical
significance of that phrase.)
Obama tapped his phones
The Russia enquiry is a witch hunt against him
Hillary Clinton was to blame for everything that went wrong with his campaign
The media does not report terrorist attacks - "Trump, it seems, got the conspiracy theory that
the media won’t report on terrorist attacks from InfoWars, the far-right conspiracy theory
outlet headed by Alex Jones."
Muslims celebrated 9/11
Hillary Clinton was on drugs
Media changed the photos showing the numbers that attended his inauguration
Massive voter fraud
Justice Scalia May Have Been Murdered and it was covered up
Not-So-Subtly Implies President Obama Is a Secret Muslim - "something going on with him that
we don't know about - after the San Bernardino terrorist attack and that he didn't want to
condemn all Muslims by saying "radical Islamic terrorism
Etc.

:::::::

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-debate-conspiracy-theories-women-rigged-elections-psychologist-bizarre-a7353886.html

"It is in these unscripted comments, delivered in town halls or in late night tweets, that Trump’s affinity for conspiracy theories is most clearly revealed.

Look beyond the slogans such as “Make America great again!” or the promises of more jobs and better trade deals, and you will find a terrifying world of malign plots, machinations, corruption and murder, of America on the brink of apocalypse. " End quote.





Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2017 12:58:40 PM

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Former Obama deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes tweeted in response that presidents can't order wiretapping.
"No President can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you," he said in his Twitter post.

Trump accuses people of doing things because he knows he has or would do them himself?

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
almo 1
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 12:10:38 AM
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Hope123 wrote:
You decide. :):




You're almost always at the bottom of threads.




Well done!



TheParser
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 5:43:15 AM
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Joined: 9/21/2012
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To: Fair-minded members and (especially) guests:

Please wait for all the facts before you make up your mind about this matter.

Here are some things for you to consider:

1. Does President Trump have proof that "someone" was listening to his phone conversations?

2. Can he prove that President Obama gave the orders?

3. Is it possible that "someone" in President Obama's administration did it without President Obama's permission or knowledge?

4. Is it possible that "someone" in a foreign country did it? (With or without permission from President Obama or his administration?)

5. Just because President Trump says something so shocking does not mean that it is a lie.
6. Just because President Trump says something so shocking does not mean that it is the truth.

7. Many "dirty" things happen all the time. We ordinary people do not know about them. Sometimes the media (if they know about them) do not report them because they feel that they would harm the nation's welfare.
a. We learned only a few years ago that the government has the ability to listen in to every telephone conversation in the United States and, presumably, in most foreign countries. (For example, the American government listened in on the conversations of Germany's leaders.)

8. President Trump has made a very serious charge.

9. He must offer some proof. (At least enough proof that does not endanger national security.)

10. If he doesn't, then both Democrats and Republicans would be right to criticize him.

11. If it is shown, however, that "someone" did listen to his conversations, then a Congressional investigation must be held by both parties.

12. Fair-minded people agree that President Trump was very irresponsible in making such a charge without providing (so far) any proof. He should NOT have mentioned President Obama's name.


Let's see if the White House clarifies the situation this coming week.





Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 6:13:14 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
Trump accuses people of doing things because he knows he has or would do them himself?


The key to understanding tRump, the tRump Rosetta Stone, was provided by Tony Schwartz author of The Art of the Deal. On July 27, 2016 he tweeted...

https://twitter.com/tonyschwartz



progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 8:08:47 AM

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Oscar and Hope have both hit on the deflection that the current president uses.
http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversation/excusing/deflection.htm

When accused, deflect the blame by pointing at others. Say that it was not you and that whatever happened was caused by other people or other things.
You can point directly at specific culprits or you can infer that others are to blame by more subtle means, such as indicating that they had motive, were in the right place, and so on (and that you were not).
When being direct or vague, consider the implications if you could be found out by the people you are blaming. If there may be recriminations, then be less direct.
You can also blame circumstances, the weather and inanimate objects.


The personality issues of the current occupant of the White House have been identified many times and they do answer quite a few questions about why the country has poisoned itself. The current occupant's use of deflection has been well documented.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 1:48:48 PM

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How to derail DT's misinformation and deflection -

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/3-strategies-derail-donald-trumps-dangerous-misinformation-campaign

Disconnect from him. Unfollow.

Seek the truth

Fight back. Go to Breitbart, take photos of ads and send them to the company, asking them if they know they are supporting Breitbart. There is a link called Sleeping Giants that I clicked on that shows how to do it. They say most companies will be grateful you showed them that they are there.

Clicking on a link puts money into pockets. We should all remember that.


This is their Twitter link.

https://mobile.twitter.com/slpng_giants?lang=en

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 2:54:24 PM

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Location: Princeton, Minnesota, United States
Hope123 wrote:
How to derail DT's misinformation and deflection -

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/3-strategies-derail-donald-trumps-dangerous-misinformation-campaign

Disconnect from him. Unfollow.

Seek the truth

Fight back. Go to Breitbart, take photos of ads and send them to the company, asking them if they know they are supporting Breitbart. There is a link called Sleeping Giants that I clicked on that shows how to do it. They say most companies will be grateful you showed them that they are there.

Clicking on a link puts money into pockets. We should all remember that.


This is their Twitter link.

https://mobile.twitter.com/slpng_giants?lang=en


A Facebook page that seems to have the idea.
https://www.facebook.com/ignoretrump/

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 4:13:30 PM

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TheParser wrote:


5. Just because President Trump says something so shocking does not mean that it is a lie.
6. Just because President Trump says something so shocking does not mean that it is the truth.

7. Many "dirty" things happen all the time. [...]

8. President Trump has made a very serious charge.

9. He must offer some proof. (At least enough proof that does not endanger national security.)

10. If he doesn't, then both Democrats and Republicans would be right to criticize him.

11. If it is shown, however, that "someone" did listen to his conversations, then a Congressional investigation must be held by both parties.

12. Fair-minded people agree that President Trump was very irresponsible in making such a charge without providing (so far) any proof. He should NOT have mentioned President Obama's name.


Applause Applause Applause

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 10:11:34 PM

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Comey (FBI) Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-seeks-inquiry-into-allegations-that-obama-tapped-his-phones.html?_r=0


"Mr. Comey’s request is a remarkable rebuke of a sitting president, putting the nation’s top law enforcement official in the position of questioning Mr. Trump’s truthfulness. The confrontation between the two is the most serious consequence of Mr. Trump’s weekend Twitter outburst, and it underscores the dangers of what the president and his aides have unleashed by accusing the former president of a conspiracy to undermine Mr. Trump’s young administration."

Trump may have bitten off more than he can chew with this tweet. All he seems to ever do is fight with everybody. Anger problems?

I saw the president who left office with the lowest approval rating ever for starting a disastrous war and steering the country into financial disaster, namely Ex President George W. Bush, on Jimmy Kimmel this week. He looked and talked - well - strangely - presidential. Angel

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 05, 2017 10:31:53 PM

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There have been requests made that everyone should give the current resident of the White House the benefit of the doubt when he cries wolf. That is something the country cannot afford to do. The current resident of the White House has taken every opportunity given to him. He has taken every second and third chance we have given him, and pissed it down his leg. He has squandered any and all opportunities to build up good faith over the past couple of months.

So what does that mean if it does happen that someone is/was spying on him? What should that mean if by some incredible bit of Karma, that the current resident of the White House suddenly says something true and no one believes him?

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 11:42:08 AM

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Trump's Russia problem is of his own making - with his little fingers and big mouth, often referred to by supporters as the claim "he tells it like it is".

Also - Why else would his campaign have contacted the Russians BEFORE the election, BEFORE they had authority to enact any policy, if not to get their help and goodwill about something? Thinking they would be pleasing Trump. Who knows what he knew when.

"If Obama got a warrant to eavesdrop, then Trump probably did something wrong, the (Republican) South Carolina senator noted." Graham made clear that the latter form (legal) of wiretapping would be aimed at investigating “Trump campaign activity with foreign governments.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-donald-trump-wiretapping_us_58bb304be4b05cf0f40104e9

Obama's spokesperson and Comey of the FBI have already said the claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower is false.

::::::

Session's answer, "I did not have communications with the Russians" reminds me of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

A comment was made about Sessions claim as "His answer was, at best, inaccurate and inartful" and does not meet the definition of perjury.

Seems to me Clinton did not get away with semantics in his impeachment trial. They both lied.

If they don't legally do something about Sessions, it is just another example of hypocrisy by the Republicans. However, it would tie up resources and the government instead of doing business - and it would be Trump's own fault. He let his anger about Sessions recusing himself from the investigation cloud his judgment about tweeting such a serious accusation.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/05/politics/trump-russia-fallout/index.html

::::

Propgen, in reference to your last question, would that be classed as poetic justice? Anxious


Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
tunaafi
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 2:52:41 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
Why else would his campaign have contacted the Russians BEFORE the election, BEFORE they had authority to enact any policy, if not to get their help and goodwill about something? Thinking they would be pleasing Trump. Who knows what he knew when.


Let's be careful that we don't sink to the level of Trump and some of his claims, Hope. It is now clear, by their own admission, that one or two Trump supporters did speak to some Russians (despite what they originally claimed). Until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that what they spoke about was inappropriate/illegal/treasonable and/or whether Trump himself knew and/or approved of/instigated the contact, we can say little more.. A person is innocent until proven guilty. That applies to Trump as well.


Quote:
"If Obama got a warrant to eavesdrop, then Trump probably did something wrong,


I can't believe you wrote that. That is the 'There's no smoke without fire' smearing that I associate with some of Obama's opponents from the moment it became clear that he might become the Democrat. candidate. I like to think that some of us who Trump supporters like to label "liberals" (almost always in inverted commas) can do better than that.

Quote:
Obama's spokesperson and Comey of the FBI have already said the claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower is false.


Fine. Obama is innocent until proven guilty. Let's not, however start coming up with excuses for.what would be, if it were ever proven, illegal abuse of power. I, personally, firmly believe that Obama did not authorise any illegal tapping. I believe that Trump's claims are simply deflecting tactics. I really hope that Obama, as a private citizen, will sue Trump for slander and be awarded massive damages (if Trump is really as rich as he claims). BUT (an enormous 'but') we must judge these two men by exactly the same standards. Trump is, in my personal opinion, a really (expletives deleted) charlatan and Obama is (in my opinion) one of the most straightforward, honest politicians on the US scene for many years, My opinion, like yours, is worth nothing when it comes to what these men have actually done, or not done.

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
OnTheVerge
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 3:28:56 PM

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almo 1 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
You decide. :):




You're almost always at the bottom of threads.




Well done!





To me, that is because Hope usually THINKS about the things she has to say before putting, "pen to paper", so to speak!
We all, already, know who's on the progressive and who's on the conservative, side of this conversation.

So 'almo1', I ask you this, are you an American (citizen) living in Japan, or are you a Japanese (citizen) living in Japan?
If it's the latter then please tell us what makes you, personal beliefs aside, such a scholar on American politics and its inner workings?

I can't speak for anyone else, however, I for one would like to know. Because what toy have contributed so far has been, to my mind, little more than taking pot shots at ideas contrary to your own


Please wake up and remember you're dealing with people of all stripes, etc, etc, etc,......


While timorous knowledge stands considering, audacious ignorance hath done the deed
almo 1
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:05:47 PM
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I'm a Japanese citizen living in Japan, half American and half Japanese.

So it's about six in the morning.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:48:23 PM

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tunaafi wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Why else would his campaign have contacted the Russians BEFORE the election, BEFORE they had authority to enact any policy, if not to get their help and goodwill about something? Thinking they would be pleasing Trump. Who knows what he knew when.


Let's be careful that we don't sink to the level of Trump and some of his claims, Hope. It is now clear, by their own admission, that one or two Trump supporters did speak to some Russians (despite what they originally claimed). Until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that what they spoke about was inappropriate/illegal/treasonable and/or whether Trump himself knew and/or approved of/instigated the contact, we can say little more.. A person is innocent until proven guilty. That applies to Trump as well.

I asked a question, wondering if somebody had any ideas as to other reasons why. If you read it as an affirmative statement of guilt just because you know my general stance, that is your problem. I don't know myself. I'm waiting for answers like everybody else.


Quote:
"If Obama got a warrant to eavesdrop, then Trump probably did something wrong,


I can't believe you wrote that.

I didn't. If you look carefully there are quotes around it quoting a Republican who supports Trump. And read the two scenarios that were given. And read the posted link from which I excerpted the quotes. Naturally it is the one time I forgot to put "Quote" and "End quote" for people who miss the marks. That is exactly why I usually do that.

And yes, I would hope everybody could do better than to make accusations without proof or before reading carefully or even checking to see what a poster meant when the written word is so easily misinterpreted. I am responsible for what I wrote but not how you interpreted it.


That is the 'There's no smoke without fire' smearing that I associate with some of Obama's opponents from the moment it became clear that he might become the Democrat. candidate. I like to think that some of us who Trump supporters like to label "liberals" (almost always in inverted commas) can do better than that.


Quote:
Obama's spokesperson and Comey of the FBI have already said the claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower is false.


Fine. Obama is innocent until proven guilty. Let's not, however start coming up with excuses for.what would be, if it were ever proven, illegal abuse of power. I, personally, firmly believe that Obama did not authorise any illegal tapping. I believe that Trump's claims are simply deflecting tactics. I really hope that Obama, as a private citizen, will sue Trump for slander and be awarded massive damages (if Trump is really as rich as he claims). BUT (an enormous 'but') we must judge these two men by exactly the same standards. Trump is, in my personal opinion, a really (expletives deleted) charlatan and Obama is (in my opinion) one of the most straightforward, honest politicians on the US scene for many years, My opinion, like yours, is worth nothing when it comes to what these men have actually done, or not done.


I quoted what was in the news as to how one might interpret the accusation of did Obama do it or didn't he. One side is that Obama did it. And I added the Obama negation to make sure two sides were given.

The two scenarios given by the Republican were that they (not necessarily Obama personally) may have been monitoring Trump legally because they knew he was talking to Russians for example, or Obama hinself did indeed do it illegally.

Have you not noticed that I try to give two sides to every story? After all, I am a Libra. Whistle


Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
Hope123
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 5:00:49 PM

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almo 1 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
You decide. :):




You're almost always at the bottom of threads.




Well done!





Since you included my signature I was not sure what this post of yours meant, Almo, so i just ignored it until OTV mentioned it. Do you care to explain? Do you mean I always get the last word? Whistle I shall ask my husband and see what he says about that. lol Whistle

:::

If it helps - My signature at the bottom "You decide. :): means to choose between a happy face and a sad face. :) :(

It depends upon which way you look at the symbols if you turn them sideway both ways. (Two sides to every story.)

Just as - Happiness in life depends upon whether or not you choose to be a negative type person or a positive type person who is grateful for life.



Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
Hope123
Posted: Monday, March 06, 2017 6:25:07 PM

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I just reread the thread except for the two links - goodreads from almo and the amazon one that followed from Progpen. (Equal opportunity. - lol)

Two afterthoughts.

Parser, I like your two-sides-to-every-story approach and this is not the first time that I have agreed with you. (Not that anyone's opinion on here really means anything in the grand scheme of things as Tuna has pointed out, but I wanted you to know that.)

Tuna, I do realize that there are many reasons for Senators to talk to Ambassadors. But when you do it the day after (or was it the same day) your president issues sanctions, it makes a person wonder if the topic might have come up.

Either way - But and a big but. His answer should have been, "Yes I talked with the ambassador about routine matters". Bingo. Problem prevented.

When everybody seems to be doing a cover-up it is what makes it look more as if the government IS on fire. You make yourself look guilty when you lie. And it still remains to be seen what Kushner and others talked about.

However, even with those extra facts, nobody knows yet what the whole story is. And since Trump refuses to give his sources and they have now dumped it on Congress and neither side is talking, we're not going to to hear anything for quite a while.

Edited to add - according to the Washington Post, the US news sources have been trying for months even before the election to verify a story by a British writer, Mensch, who says she wrote a story about money laundering (too long for me to tell so read the link if interested) but never said anything about wiretapping. Apparently that was added and possibly it was added by Breitbart.

If you want to know what they believe so far happened and what Trump's sources may be - read the story on the link.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/03/05/trumps-evidence-for-obama-wiretap-claims-relies-on-sketchy-anonymously-sourced-reports/?utm_term=.83df3359da5e




Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 2:32:56 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
"If Obama got a warrant to eavesdrop, then Trump probably did something wrong,


tunaafi wrote:
I can't believe you wrote that.


Hope wrote:
I didn't. If you look carefully there are quotes around it quoting a Republican who supports Trump.


My apologies. I did indeed miss the quotes.


Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere – The Master of Paddington.
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 4:26:36 AM

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Joined: 6/26/2014
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Is this wiretapping claim just more hot air and chaff meant to divert our attention away from something else?

Chaff - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chaff

3. Trivial or worthless matter: ignored the picky, unimportant criticisms that were just a lot of chaff.
4. Strips of metal, foil, or glass fiber with a metal content, cut into various lengths and having varying frequency responses, that are used to reflect electromagnetic energy as a radar countermeasure. These materials, usually dropped from aircraft, also can be deployed from shells or rockets.

Red Herring - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/red+herring

2. Something that draws attention away from the matter being discussed or dealt with.


So what is the tRumpster really trying to hide?

Maybe it's a case of the more pressure he feels, the more outrageous his counter attacks become? So Donny, why are you feeling all the heat? Are we getting too close to your affair with Russia?





Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 11:48:00 AM

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Apologies accepted, Tuna. I knew that was what happened as you are a reasonable man who just showed he can can admit where he went wrong. Applause Applause Applause

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:49:15 PM

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Rachel Maddow of MSNBC says the real story here is not the accusation. I am pharaphrasing her video but you can watch it.

Trump administration oversteps in outreach to Justice Department: http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-administration-oversteps-in-outreach-to-justice-department-892654147955

The story is that once again the White House has shown that it is willing to subject the top levels of the government such as the Justice Department that are supposed to remain independent from the executive Branch - to political partisan pressure.

Priebus leaned on the FBI to release details favorable to the White House in an ongoing investigation - that never should be done.

And now the White House Counsel admitted they would get the Justice Department to chase down whatever warrant Obama was supposed to have issued and give it to the White House. Just not how it works. Another official tried to clarify the original response but you don't do what he suggested either.

This is what happens to leaders who have no idea how a government works, or worse still assume they can subvert or get around the checks and balances that are there for very good reasons.






Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:04:58 PM

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Rachel Maddow is correct in going around the talk and concentrating on the actions. That does actually come into play with the discussion about giving the current occupant of the White House the benefit of the doubt (or a second chance). When we look not at the words, but at the actions of the current occupant of the White House, we see that the country, and even the world, have given him second, third and in some cases even fourth chances. This goes far beyond anything that the right wing extremists have ever given Obama or Clinton and encroaches on painfully gullible.

Of course the current occupant of the White House should be given the respect that he has earned. He should also be given every opportunity to tell the truth. He should also be given every opportunity to try to fix the damage he has done thusfar. However, that does not include a perpetual "benefit of the doubt" and/or "2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. chances" because that is exactly what he demands and it is exactly how he got this far and was able to do this much damage.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:07:17 PM

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Wilmar (USA) wrote:
No evidence that you're aware of, and, you can't trust Obama at all -- he's the dirtiest president we've ever had.


Wilmar, I'd love to hear why you think Obama was "the dirtiest president we've ever had". With evidence.

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:22:47 PM

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almo 1 wrote:



Stonewalled: My Fight for Truth Against the Forces of Obstruction, Intimidation, and Harassment in Obama's Washington

www.goodreads.com/book/show/20483097




My Computer’s Intruders


Reeeeeeeeeee.”

The noise is coming from my personal Apple desktop computer in the small office adjacent to my bedroom. It’s starting up.

On its own.

“Reeeeeee . . . chik chik chik chik,” says the computer as it shakes itself awake.

The electronic sounds stir me from sleep. I squint my eyes at the clock radio on the table next to the bed. The numbers blink back: “3:14 a.m.”

Only a day earlier, my CBS-issued Toshiba laptop, perched at the foot of my bed, had whirred to life on its own. That too had been untouched by human hands. What time was that? I think it was 4 a.m.

Some nights, both computers spark to life, one after the other. A cacophony of microprocessors interrupting the normal sounds of the night. After thirty seconds, maybe a minute, they go back to sleep. I know this is not normal computer behavior.

My husband, a sound sleeper, snores through it all. Half asleep, I try to remember how long ago my computers first started going rogue. A year? Two? It no longer startles me. But it’s definitely piquing my curiosity.

It’s October 2012, and I’ve been digging into the September 11 terrorist attacks on Americans at the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya. It’s the most interesting puzzle I’ve come across since the Fast and Furious gunwalking story, which led to international headlines and questions that remain unanswered.

Solving these kinds of puzzles is probably the challenge that drives me most. There’s nothing like an unsolved mystery to keep me at the computer or on the phone until one or two in the morning. Most mysteries can be solved, you just have to find the information. But too often, the keepers of the information don’t want to give it up . . . even when the information belongs to the public.

Now my computers offer a new mystery to unravel. I already had begun mentioning these unusual happenings to acquaintances who work in secretive corners of government and understand such things. Connections I’d met through friends and contacts in the northwest Virginia enclaves. Here, so many work for—or recently retired from—one of the “alphabet agencies.” CIA. FBI. NSA. DIA. They’re concerned about what I’m experiencing. They think something’s going on. Somebody, they tell me, is making my computers behave that way.

They’re also worried about my home phone. It’s practically unusable now. Often, when I call home, it only rings once on the receiving end. But on my end, it keeps ringing and then connects somewhere else. Nobody’s there. Other times, it disconnects in the middle of calls. There are clicks and buzzes. My friends who call hear the strange noises and ask about them. I get used to the routine of callers suggesting, half-jokingly, “Is your phone tapped?” My whole family’s tired of it. Verizon has been to the house over and over again but can’t fix whatever’s wrong.

On top of that, my home alarm system has begun chirping a nightly warning that my phone line is having “trouble” of an unidentified nature. It chirps until I get out of bed and reset it. Every night. Different times.

I’m losing sleep.

I’m the one who tries to get information from the keepers and I can be relentless. That kind of tenacity doesn’t always make friends, not even at CBS News, which has built an impressive record for dogged reporting in the tradition of Edward R. Murrow, Eric Sevareid, and Mike Wallace. But that’s okay. I’m not in journalism to make friends.

My job is to remind politicians and government officials as to who they work for. Some of them have forgotten. They think they personally own your tax dollars. They think they own the information their agencies gather on the public’s behalf. They think they’re entitled to keep that information from the rest of us and—make no mistake—they’re bloody incensed that we want it.

The Benghazi mystery is proving especially difficult. The feds are keeping a suspiciously tight clamp on details. They won’t even say how long the attacks went on or when they ended. What they do reveal sometimes contradicts information provided by their sister agencies. And some of the most basic, important questions? They won’t address at all.

For months, the Obama administration has dismissed all questions as partisan witch-hunting. And why not? That approach has proven successful, at least among some colleagues in the news media. They’re apparently satisfied with the limited answers.




Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi! Blood on her hands! Hours, hour, hours. Money, money, money. But No 🔥 fire!

Yemen. Huh, what's that? Wasn't my fault they kept on going when they knew they were compromised. It's the generals fault. No - better still - It's Obama's fault. He started it. We don't need an investigation. I ’got nuttin' to hide. Besides, we got information. Kids, a Navy Seal, equipment - just collateral damage. No need to investigate. No need to investigate my campaign - they didn't collude with Russia.

Besides, Obama had a wire "tapp" on me.

What is his obsession with Obama anyhow? He started with his birther movement years ago and he can't let go.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-obama-obsession-isnt-doing-the-white-house-any-favors




Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:12:08 PM

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So now, apparently, the current occupant of the White House did not mean what he said. It was apparently just a metaphor.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39262158?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=%2AMorning%20Brief

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:54:16 PM

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From an interview he gave yesterday, it was reported that T got the idea from an article in The New York Times in January. I think Snopes said the twentieth. I guess he still believed them when he tweeted on March 7. Whistle He did not get it from any briefing according to the article. But apparently Levin and then later Breitbart picked up the story on March 3rd but connected a series of events that were not connected.

The title used the word "wiretapping" but one of the authors says only an "obtuse misreading" of the article would lead anyone to believe that it meant that Trump was under surveillance. For one thing, I see the word "unclear" twice. Only part of the article is visible as it is continued on a later page.

http://www.snopes.com/nytimes-wiretap-articles/

When the paper reported later there was no proof of wiretapping, they were accused of changing their story and Snopes says that is false. They didn't.

It seems it would be a good idea if this president turned off the media and his Twitter account and stopped playing at reality TV??

He is no longer a private citizen who can express an opinion. He is the president of the US.

Quote - "the article stated that intelligence agencies were monitoring Russian officials, and that some of the conversations they intercepted in the course of their investigations may have also involved Trump aides:"

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Buddha
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 2:28:05 PM

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http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/17/at-white-house-trump-campaigns-while-merkel-champions-western-order/

When asked about whether or not he still stands by his accusation he said, "As far as wiretapping by, i guess, this past administration, at least we have something in common, perhaps" while gesturing to Chancellor Merkel. Chancellor Merkel's reaction was almost as good as Japan's Prime Minister Abe's reaction to the handshake.
https://twitter.com/ditzkoff/status/842808611634102274

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 18, 2017 2:36:38 PM

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And then the current occupant of the White House took it one further and said that Obama ordered the UK's GCHQ to wiretap him.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14957068/britain-spies-trump-wiretapping-nonsense-obama-spicer

I've listened to a few reactions from the UK about this and they have been entertainingly direct and to the point. Words like absurd, ridiculous and nonsense have congested the airwaves and other communications medium. This may have resulted in Sean Spicer apologizing and then not apologizing.
http://gizmodo.com/sean-spicer-reportedly-apologizes-to-britain-for-talkin-1793366293

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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