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I would appreciate it if you could/would help me do my homework. Options
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:54:20 AM
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I would appreciate it if you could/would help me do my homework.

Which is the correct word?

Thanks.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:07:36 AM

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In my opinion, they both work well.

The basic question is really "Will you help me?"

All the 'peripheral' phrases are just making it more polite.

The first stage of politeness is making it 'modal/subjunctive'.
"Could you help me?" or "Would you help me?"

The next stage of politeness is disguising the request as a "wish" or "hope".
I would appreciate it if you could/would help me do my homework.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 12:08:38 PM
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Thanks, DragOnspeaker.
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:12:17 PM

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Koh Elaine wrote:
I would appreciate it if you could/would help me do my homework.

Which is the correct word?

Thanks.


Actually, "I would appreciate it if you could help me do my homework" is the right one.
Drag0n is right, but he forgot to say that the "would" version is only acceptable idiomatically, not grammatically.

It's called CONDITIONAL SENTENCES: There are many conditional sentences structures, I will, below, leave some:


Conditional 1: Present tense + Future tense

I will go out with you if you help me;
If you help me clear the hosue, I will help you with your homework.

Conditional 2: Past tense + Conditional

I would go out with you if you helped me;
If I were rich, I would buy a big house. (Were, not was, this is a rule of conditional forms with the past tense)

Condition 3: Past perfect + Conditional + Present perfect

I would have arrived earlier if I had not missed the bus;
If they hadn't been chosen, I would have been selected.


Take a look at this link, it explains it more detailed: http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/conditional_sentences.htm

I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:12:17 PM

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Location: Olinda, Pernambuco, Brazil
Koh Elaine wrote:
I would appreciate it if you could/would help me do my homework.

Which is the correct word?

Thanks.


Actually, "I would appreciate it if you could help me do my homework" is the right one.
Drag0n is right, but he forgot to say that the "would" version is only acceptable idiomatically, not grammatically.

It's called CONDITIONAL SENTENCES: There are many conditional sentences structures, I will, below, leave some:


Conditional 1: Present tense + Future tense

I will go out with you if you help me;
If you help me clear the hosue, I will help you with your homework.

Conditional 2: Past tense + Conditional

I would go out with you if you helped me;
If I were rich, I would buy a big house. (Were, not was, this is a rule of conditional forms with the past tense)

Condition 3: Past perfect + Conditional + Present perfect

I would have arrived earlier if I had not missed the bus;
If they hadn't been chosen, I would have been selected.


Take a look at this link, it explains it more detailed: http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/conditional_sentences.htm

I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
snafu22q
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:16:39 PM
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Location: Georgetown, Texas, United States
Just a comment in addition to Drag0's response...

The peripheral phrases he mentions are *probably* of a polite nature, as he says. However, one should realize when you ask "would", you are asking if they are willing to help - but when you ask "could" ... while it could be in relation to time limitations they have ("do you have the time to help"), it could also be they are asking if you are capable to help.

If someone writing a thesis on fusion theory asks if I can help - it would depend on whether they wanted help in formatting, wordsmithing, typing (all of which I could help with), or if they needed help with the content of their paper. I could not help them in that respect.

It may be obvious to English speakers, but I thought it might be useful to point out another way it could be interpreted. :)

ciao

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:36:14 PM

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snafu22q wrote:
Just a comment in addition to Drag0's response...

The peripheral phrases he mentions are *probably* of a polite nature, as he says. However, one should realize when you ask "would", you are asking if they are willing to help - but when you ask "could" ... while it could be in relation to time limitations they have ("do you have the time to help"), it could also be they are asking if you are capable to help.

If someone writing a thesis on fusion theory asks if I can help - it would depend on whether they wanted help in formatting, wordsmithing, typing (all of which I could help with), or if they needed help with the content of their paper. I could not help them in that respect.

It may be obvious to English speakers, but I thought it might be useful to point out another way it could be interpreted. :)

ciao


Acceptable.

However, I don't think if should be added in this kind of sense; I think in order to make it GRAMMATICALLY correct if should be removed, so the sentence would be like this: Would you help me do my homework? I'd appreciate it, or using simple past: I would appreciate if you helped me. - Both sound great and are also grammatically and idiomatically correct.

I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:13:08 PM
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[quote
However, I don't think if should be added in this kind of sense; I think in order to make it GRAMMATICALLY correct if should be removed, so the sentence would be like this: Would you help me do my homework? I'd appreciate it, or using simple past: I would appreciate if you helped me. - Both sound great and are also grammatically and idiomatically correct.[/quote]

I think it should be I would appreciate it if you helped me.
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:22:52 PM

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Koh Elaine wrote:
Quote:

However, I don't think if should be added in this kind of sense; I think in order to make it GRAMMATICALLY correct if should be removed, so the sentence would be like this: Would you help me do my homework? I'd appreciate it, or using simple past: I would appreciate if you helped me. - Both sound great and are also grammatically and idiomatically correct.


I think it should be I would appreciate it if you helped me.


I would appreciate ' if you helped me

I = Subject
Would = Auxiliary Verb
Appreciate = Main verb

If you helped me = Direct object of the verb Appreciate.

Having two objects would seem weird, wouldn't it? Haha.

If you were to say it again, just in case someone didn't hear you, then you could say:

I would appreciate it.

It = If you could help me.

It happens a lot when people don't want to repeat all the object, sometimes because it's big, sometimes because they are lazy.. Whistle - Like:

You: I would like to buy a car that has a big front bumper!
Your friend: Would you really buy it?
You: Yes, I'd buy it! = It = a car that has a big front bumper.


Another mistake that native spekers usually make is: I hate it when people use it this way

I hate ' when people use it this way

I = Subject
Hate = Verb
When people use it this way = Direct Object of the verb Hate.

Therefore, It and When people use it this way are two direct objects which can't be used together unless there is one preposition linking both. But this is another story.

I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:34:42 PM
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I would appreciate it if you helped me.

I was taught that the it is mandatory.
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:48:08 PM

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Koh Elaine wrote:

I would appreciate it if you helped me.

I was taught that the it is mandatory.


It's a normal mistake, just like "I hate it when...."

Check a simple sentence structure:

He (Subject) - Likes (Verb) - When I do it (Direct Object of the verb Likes)

Many natives or leaners would say: He likes it when I do it; however, it's actually wrong since the object has already been mentioned.




I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
thar
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:23:00 PM

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Edited
I'll try to find a source for this, in grammatical terminology.
You know who I am
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:37:00 PM

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thar wrote:
I have to jump in here - you need the pronoun.

The sentence without it is wrong.

I think I can give a grammatical reason.


You appreciate something. It is always transitive.

Either a noun
I would appreciate your help

Or a participle phrase
I would appreciate your helping me.

Or a pronoun.
I would appreciate it.
I would appreciate it if you helped me.

What you can't have is a conditional phrase.
You can for an intransitive verb
I would applaud if you could help me (not good language, but grammatically correct. The only example I could think of.)
I would excel if you could help me.

You can for an adjective
I would be grateful if you could help me.

But you need to appreciate something. An 'if' clause doesn't do the job. You need an unspecified 'it' as the object.
I'd appreciate it if you'd help me.
I'd like it if you' could help me.


Re the other point
He likes it when I do it.

Again, you need the object. Because it is not the same object.

He likes it - 'it' is not a real object.

There is a difference between liking something, and liking it when something happens.
Eg
I like it when it rains.
Ie
I am happy when rain is falling.

But
This is my painting. I like it.
Ie
This is an object I like.

You also need it to show the 'do' is not the positive auxiliary verb. As a main verb, it is transitive (you do something). It needs an object - when you do it / when you do that.





thar, I'm a little bit confused.

I don't really think "it" is necessary since the object has already been mentioned; otherwise, the author could be possibly referring to two objects (which is impossible in that clause), Transitive verbs need to take at least one object, "When I do it" is a noun claun which is acting as an object, so, what's the main problem?

I am the way, and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me. - John 14:6
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:53:54 PM
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Joined: 7/4/2012
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thar wrote:
Edited
I'll try to find a source for this, in grammatical terminology.


Is the following link good enough?

https://blog.harwardcommunications.com/2010/11/18/showing-appreciation/
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:00:29 PM

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What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:11:10 PM
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Joined: 7/4/2012
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Thanks, FROSTY X RIME. Is there a link to that information?
FROSTY X RIME
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:27:44 PM

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Koh Elaine wrote:
Thanks, FROSTY X RIME. Is there a link to that information?


Yes!

"it" is mandatory.

What should be shall be-The fellowship of the ring-
Koh Elaine
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:31:38 PM
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Joined: 7/4/2012
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FROSTY X RIME wrote:
Koh Elaine wrote:
Thanks, FROSTY X RIME. Is there a link to that information?


Yes!

"it" is mandatory.

Thank you.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 5:43:39 AM

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The logic behind that rule is this:

"If you could help me" is the "if-clause" - it needs a conditional clause.

"I would appreciate" is not a full clause, it is missing an object.

"If you could help me, I would appreciate" doesn't work, therefore "I would appreciate if you could help me." doesn't work either.

"If you could help me, I would appreciate it", "I would appreciate it if you could help me."

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Koh Elaine
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 10:28:24 AM
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Thanks, DragOnspeaker, for the very logical reply.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:46:13 AM

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Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
'could' implies capability, 'would' implies willingness. IMO. Simple explanation.

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
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