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On The Election of Donald Trump Options
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:45:07 AM

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progpen wrote:
Hope. I see hours of work in these replies and I have to wonder...why? Every one of your responses contains information that disproves (again) the statements FD makes. FD has access to the same information we all do, but it isn't the information that FD desires. He wants that warm fuzzy of having something to fear and someone else to blame. This has come up in multiple threads and we know there is research behind it. Facts and data will not phase FD. It's all about the FEEELZ.


Why? Because truth is important.

When something is written from purely one slanted point of view glossing over details and facts to make the argument, then the opposite point of view needs to be presented. There are always two sides to any story and objectivity is paramount. And if something incorrect is said often enough, people will begin to believe it. However, I am sure FD believes every word of what he wrote and I am not questioning his sincerity. And it is interesting to look at things from a historical POV.

I said I would give his story consideration and I kept my word as that is important to me. In fact, I delved right in, did the research, and found the other sides to the story. For instance, I found that facts that were gathered as the story went on about what happened with Black Lives Matter were left out.

It is a well known fact in psychology that when people's beliefs become their identity, facts will only make them dig in more. So I have no illusions thst the three remaining 45th supporters and any who still read will change their minds from anything I write. Only experiencing the consequences of what happens will do that, if indeed they ever change their minds. That is why I asked if there was a breaking point, a deal breaker.

But there may be those who read who are teetering on the edge and when FD writes the same stereotypical accusations about Progressive Liberals over and over again, they may begin to believe them. Perhaps truth and facts and a more objective point of view will be of some use there.

From a personal point of view, I think I should have been a researcher, as I love ❤️ it. I learn at the same time! Plus, a couple of the courses I took were about Critical Thinking, Reasoning, and How to Argue, so in a way I guess I am practising what I learned. And it is easy to write with my iPad on my lap while I sit in my Perfect Chair while half watching TV. I am a multi tasker. Better than knitting. lol. I just wish I could be more succinct.




What I will never understand is why anyone, not just FD, continuously is willing to accept stereotype and generalization as fact. Edited - An example right now is confusing all Muslims with extremists who are using Islam to do evil deeds.






Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
progpen
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 10:32:22 AM

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Hope, I understand the need to research and I agree that offsetting the incorrect information with facts is the only way to move forward. My confusion is with replying directly to them when we know they don't care a whit about any facts or resources we bring to the conversation. When we reply directly to them and try to have a logical conversation, we lend credence to and a sort of pseudo legitimacy to them and the incorrect information they post. If we just post the correct information without referencing the person, we take away that credence and do not run the risk of giving them that legitimacy they require.

With that said, I know I feed the trolls as much as anyone. Not necessarily to move a conversation along, but to let the other person understand that pacifism has nothing to do with timidity or letting bullies run rampant. If insults and disrespect are received, then insults and disrespect are given in return. Bullies are only emboldened when the target does not defend them self.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2017 10:50:02 AM

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You have a point, Progpen, about referencing the person.

Or two or three points. :)

I learned at the age of five that you do have up to stand up to bullies. It felt good even if the teacher punished me. lol. And the bloody nose to one of the twin boys worked, too. They didn't bully me again. (Edited - not a reference to any one person on the Forum.)

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Romany
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:06:36 AM
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I've also spent months and months researching and that's why I, personally, no longer respond directly to our Gang of Three.

Living in China was also something which helped me understand: it's difficult indeed to to combat those who have been propagandised - often since birth. That's why it's such a powerful tool. One is not talking with an individual, but with a collective mind-set. Those who are the product of total propaganda speak with one voice, think with one mind. It's not just misinformation which one has to battle, but a different way of being, and of seeing and experiencing life.

In both cases - the Chinese and the alt-right Americans - education plays a huge part. We've heard before the fairy-story of the alt-rights version of American history: fleeing 'The Tyrant' and religious persecution, the whole 'Wild West' b.s. which owes more to Hollywood than History, and the resultant 'Best country in the world', which is actually taught. In China it's also escape from Monarchy and traditions; the 'wonderful' Mao years....and the 'Best country in the world' that is also taught. In China it was the Cult of Mao through which people were manipulated, in the USA it's the Cult of Jesus.

My biggest indicator in China as to whether one is speaking with an indoctrinated person was by noting the common vocabulary they use; the identical phrases. Once I was alerted to the presence of the alt-right the use of exactly the same words by all of them; the identical methodology (or lack thereof?) employed to discuss issues, became immediately obvious.

I've also discovered that the alt-right, dismissed world-wide as 'crazy yanks', have been working on an agenda for years. One tool they have employed in areas where the education standard is good and veering away from The American Myth, is to educate their children at home. This is incredibly dangerous as, this way, children ARE tabula rosa - or blank slates. They will go through all their growing years and maturation never encountering any other ideas, ideology, or dissent. Coming up across it as adults is too late. They have been inculcated with a version of reality which everyone they have ever met agrees with and knows as Truth. Anyone who tries to mess with THEIR truth must, of necessity, be a whole pack of lies to them. And if one has never been taught the value of Truth then there's no point in banging on about it: - it's not a concept which has meaning. Truth is what THEY believe. Lies are what WE believe. And as they have no tools handy which allow them to support their Truth; discrediting, abusing, or physical attacks are the sum total of their armament. They have been given no others.

So yeah, I can see why Hope spends so much time researching the truth and presenting it...for others.

But addressing any of the Gang of Three personally is a waste of time: they've been brought up since childhood to ignore anything which differs from their world view, so they steadfastly ignore all evidence to the contrary as 'subversive' and so, by extension, the people who present contrary evidence are ignored and demonised. It's the only possible way to hang on to their peculiar ideas in an entire world - not just the rest of a single country - which thinks differently and has shaped the way the world is structured.


almo 1
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:46:24 AM
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Listening . . .
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2017 11:20:01 PM

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FoundIt,
Your synopsis follows a logical train of thought for me. Excellent work! Applause Applause Applause The pendulum, indeed, needed to swing back a bit (to say the least). Are we really moving forward when we pull one or two classes forward and shove others backward? Equality and fair treatment for all means... equality and fair treatment for all.


On another note: What exactly does everyone mean when they say "echo chamber"? I thought it meant a chamber where your words/thoughts are repeated back, thereby offering confirmation that your perspective is valid. But... if FoundIt is coming back to the echo chamber (as stated in other threads)....my understanding of an echo chamber as stated must be incorrect. When FoundIt speaks, he hardly hears his thoughts repeated or gains confirmation that his perspectives are valid. His perspective is certainly in the minority on this forum. I think most will agree on that point. So...when I read "echo chamber," how should I interpret use of that term? Eh?
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:56:00 AM

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Listening, labeling the "Political Forum" the "Echo Chamber" is FounDit's baby and it was echoed by Hedy. ( "the echo chamber" will continue their bêtise") I questioned the meaning too and because the usual meaning was not clear to me, assumed he meant it to be semi derogatory - that opinions were not original opinions, just one big echo. I accepted that his definition which follows is what he meant to convey.

Quote FounDit: "It is a fact that there are many more on the political Left on TFD than on the political Right, or the Populist Movement led by Trump. And when a larger group reinforces one another with a common political agreement, it becomes an "echo chamber", no matter which group is doing it."

But since we are putting people into boxes with labels Shame on you - On this thread alone we have Righties - FounDit, Dreamy, Hedy, Jeech, Listening, and on other recent threads azbnb, Parser, and perhaps Wilmar. (Mack and a couple of others and Chazlee were here ony for the election so I won't count them.) I don't know what box to put Almo in except he likes sexy women. 😀 Some like Drago, Thar, and others do not go on the Politics section much and remain Switzerland. Anyhow, that makes seven without Wilmar.

In the Lefties box - Andrew, Jerome, Progpen, Hope, Lotje, Romany, Will, and On the Verge. eight without "Sometimes Tuna".

I apologize in advance if you don't really belong in either box or I put you in the wrong one because of my understanding of comments you have made, or I left you out. I was looking mainly at this thread. I am only trying to make the point that it is NOT a fact that there are many more on the political Left than on the Politcal Right. (Some are not political at all but social Lefties.)

Listening, in case you have not seen two other threads, Parser says the Political Left is scaring the Right from speaking out on the Politics sub forum. With these statistics I do not believe that is so. And with these statisitics I think calling the "Political Forum" an "Echo Chamber", besides being unnecessary, is a misnomer if one group has to be larger than the other - unless you consider that there are definitely two points of view being echoed, along with many variations. For instance Progpen may be on the Left, but he has said he supported neither of the two main groups. Romany says she is neither. I have been both, have many Liberal beliefs, but also some Conservative ones you might be surprised at.

Nobody should feel they do not have freedom to speak their minds on any sub forum. And that means one has to accept that others are going to disagree, but we do mostly disagree without name calling or being nasty. Not reading a post because one disagrees means one misses out on something that just might make a little sense. (It is easier to keep one's temper if one does not take disagreement to be personal. - my advice to myself as my temper can get the better of me sometimes.)

I really do not like classifying people or anything as stereotypes. It would be a lot better for us and the world at large if we were just people with opinions and ideas and did not have to always be Righties or Lefties. We may disagree on some things, but agree on others. It is ok to say, "Good job" to a post even if you disagree but a good job was done. And when we work together instead of against each other, there can be harmony and things are accomplished. We discuss and learn a lot.

When we played 🎾 tennis, if our opponents made a good shot against us, we told them "Good shot" and they reciprocated. We all considered ourselves to be good sports and it felt better than always just being competitors who had to win.

Damn, here I am rambling again.




Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Dreamy
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:13:46 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
On this thread alone we have Righties - FounDit, Dreamy, Hedy, Jeech, Listening,

Well I do like to be right more often than wrong, but I wouldn't vote for a Trump or a Clinton so not sure where that places me in your scheme of things, Hope123.

Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:18:48 AM

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Dreamy, well then you are in the classy "good sport" section! Applause

Let's see who else I classified in the wrong section. Proving my own point about not liking to put people into boxes.

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Dreamy
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:22:54 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
Dreamy, well then you are in the classy good sport section! Applause

Why thankyou, ma'am. It's 8.21pm here in the Southern Hemisphere, just got dark. What is the time where you are?

Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:25:14 AM

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2:25 a.m. Think I should go to sleep?

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Dreamy
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:30:11 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
2:25 a.m. Think I should go to sleep?

Depends how old you feel. I'm looking forward to retirement when I won't have to get up early for work. Some posters do their best work in the wee small hours...:)

Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:27:31 AM

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Change the word "husband" to "Freedelphian" and you'll understand. We can't buy glasses for each other.



Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:41:39 AM
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Dreamy,

I would have bet money that you too were a-political. Somehow, politics isn't so all-important that side, is it? In fact I couldn't tell you what a single mate of mine's politics are nor, if they vote, would I know which candidate they voted for. necessarily.

I mean, sure, we talk seriously about all kinds of issues - but never from a background of political affiliation. And if I did find out that a friend of mine had voted for someone I personally didn't think would be a good choice, it would certainly not bring about argument or insults or family feuds.

I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around the current DEGREE of division in the USA. And then, as one can't help but think of it, one factors in the fact that both side of the Big Divide are not just running around with old double barrel shotguns: - but that some of the most sophisticated and powerful weapons in the world are sitting in people's private homes!

Bloody 'ell, mate.
OnTheVerge
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:52:58 PM

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Dreamy wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
On this thread alone we have Righties - FounDit, Dreamy, Hedy, Jeech, Listening,

Well I do like to be right more often than wrong, but I wouldn't vote for a Trump or a Clinton so not sure where that places me in your scheme of things, Hope123.


Perhaps with the VAST MAJORITY of us Dreamy, the vast majority! Think

OTV





The world will never starve for want of wonders, but only for want of people who wonder.
OnTheVerge
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:06:30 PM

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Romany wrote:

Dreamy,


I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around the current DEGREE of division in the USA. And then, as one can't help but think of it, one factors in the fact that both side of the Big Divide are not just running around with old double barrel shotguns: - but that some of the most sophisticated and powerful weapons in the world are sitting in people's private homes!

Bloody 'ell, mate.


It's not so hard to grasp when one lives, breathes, and eats politics like many in the USA do. It is disturbing that the divisiveness and the venal use of power have led our corrupted Government officials to fight for their own interests first and their constituents last, if at all!

Give 'em all hell, that's what I say!

OTV





The world will never starve for want of wonders, but only for want of people who wonder.
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 4:04:21 PM

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Listening wrote:

FoundIt,
Your synopsis follows a logical train of thought for me. Excellent work! The pendulum, indeed, needed to swing back a bit (to say the least). Are we really moving forward when we pull one or two classes forward and shove others backward? Equality and fair treatment for all means... equality and fair treatment for all.


You are correct. And this was what was established with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The law made is clear there was to be no discrimination on any basis: race, color, creed, religion, etc. All were to be treated with equality and fairness, except the political Left was brought to power by focusing on this very thing -- race, and so they have clung to that as a means of keeping power. This is why to this day, any time they disagree with someone, they throw out that label – racist. It has worked for a very long time, but now has become a rather stale tactic.

Quotas were set up in law to “remedy” past discrimination. This made is legal to discriminate in order to “make up for” past discrimination. It’s the old “eye for an eye” rule that the Left says they hate – except when they practice it. Then it’s fine.

The Left sees the world through race-colored glasses: everyone who is not Caucasian is “a person of color”, and therefore, someone who has been abused and discriminated against. An interesting side note is the Muslim question. The Left is predominately atheist in their beliefs, but go to great lengths to cover for Muslims which begs the question – why? It’s not the religion, it’s the skin color. Muslims fall into the category of “people of color”, so therefore, they are “victims” and need the protection (i.e. power) of the Left. So the Left just has to stay in power to protect all these “victims” of white Americans.

By dividing the population into such groups, Blacks, Hispanics, Women, Gays, Trans, etc. they play the game of identity politics. All these groups, in their minds, have been taken advantage of by Whites. Never mind that few, if any, of those people today are guilty of doing so. This gave the Left, and has kept the Left, in power for the last 50-odd years. At least it did, until now.

And that’s why they are squawking like plucked chickens today. They see their power eroding and don’t know what to do about it. They “strain(ed) at a gnat, and swallow(ed) a camel” and now it’s too late to stop what is inevitable. They went too far, demanded too much, yielded not an inch, and now they have boxed themselves into a corner they can’t get out of. This is, of course, a very broad view of the last 50 years, but having lived it, there is no doubt that is happened. But rather than look at that, the Left would rather focus of tiny facets and ignore their contribution to the problems of today. They would rather blame someone else than accept any responsibility. From a historical/political perspective, it’s very fascinating, kind of comical in a way, but intensely interesting to observe.





A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:34:05 PM

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Dreamy wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
2:25 a.m. Think I should go to sleep?

Depends how old you feel. I'm looking forward to retirement when I won't have to get up early for work. Some posters do their best work in the wee small hours...:)


I've always been a night owl, but lately it is getting ridiculous. I got to sleep at three. Awake at 8.

I posted again because I wanted to say: "Don't wish your life away. Retirement will come sooner than you think!"

But good luck till then.

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:31:26 PM

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Romany wrote:
So yeah, I can see why Hope spends so much time researching the truth and presenting it...for others.


I understand and agree. My methods are markedly different than yours and Hope's, but we are working toward the same end. Providing facts to those who are curious.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:57:36 PM

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Romany wrote:
I've also discovered that the alt-right, dismissed world-wide as 'crazy yanks', have been working on an agenda for years. One tool they have employed in areas where the education standard is good and veering away from The American Myth, is to educate their children at home. This is incredibly dangerous as, this way, children ARE tabula rosa - or blank slates. They will go through all their growing years and maturation never encountering any other ideas, ideology, or dissent. Coming up across it as adults is too late. They have been inculcated with a version of reality which everyone they have ever met agrees with and knows as Truth. Anyone who tries to mess with THEIR truth must, of necessity, be a whole pack of lies to them. And if one has never been taught the value of Truth then there's no point in banging on about it: - it's not a concept which has meaning. Truth is what THEY believe. Lies are what WE believe. And as they have no tools handy which allow them to support their Truth; discrediting, abusing, or physical attacks are the sum total of their armament. They have been given no others.


Home schooling in the US, or anywhere, is as good as the parents are conscientious. I grew up with home schooled friends, friends who attended public school and friends in private school. I never saw one as being better than the others, only different. Home schooling as a political statement is a relatively new thing here in the US, but it most certainly damages the children and gives homeschooling a bad name.

Education in the US has become highly politicized (huh, go figure) to the point that the public school system is called Socialism and school teachers are considered subversive for teaching science in many parts of the country. We have education wastelands where only the wealthy are allowed a meaningful education. We also have some of the deepest digital divides of any 1st world country.

Education has become yet another weapon used by the Republican party leadership.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 11:03:45 PM

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Progpen,

What is this country and what have they done with the United States I thought I knew?

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:41:04 AM

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Progpen, I think the Repubs are going to implode all by themselves. It just keeps on piling higher and deeper. Is this scary or what?

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/14/14609980/donald-trump-own-worst-enemy

(Video at the end shows in charts and statistics that trade deals are only part of the long picture of job loss since the 1940's and that he doubts what Trump thinks will fix it is going to work. I can't capture the link of just the video itself.)


One - Most important one is Foreign Relations - He backed down with China. Iran, North Korea, and his supposed friend, Russia are challenging him.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/13/sitrep-trumps-response-to-korean-missile-launch-flynn-in-trouble-chaos-inside-the-national-security-council-chinese-aircraft-carrier-news-rockets-rain-on-baghdad-russian-sanctions-and/

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/russia-cruise-missile-spy-ship/index.html

Two - he banged on and on about Hillary's emails and yet his security is very lax. He has held on to his insecure Android phone, from which he tweeted when he was about to sit down with Abe of Japan. When the crisis about North Korea came up over the weekend, no security precautions were taken. They kept on eating dinner. The paying guests and servers were allowed to watch. The meeting was actually posted on Facebook and later taken down except for a photo of the guy with the "football" (nuclear codes)

From Trump’s Mar-a-Lago to Facebook, a National Security Crisis in the Open! Guests had their phones and could have been electronic eavesdropping. His handling of a national security crisis has been called at the very least amateurish and dangerous. North Korea timed their missile and then knew exactly what was happening in the American government. All they had to do was look at Facebook.

It is being called the "Wedge issue because when word of the launch reached the U.S., T and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe were eating iceburg wedges in a dining room full of paying customers at the president’s private Mar-a-Lago retreat. And the launch didn’t interrupt their dinner. According to a report from CNN, the guests, who paid the president $200,000 for the proximity, were able to watch as White House aides poured over government documents and made hurried phone calls while they briefed the two leaders who continued to dine by candlelight in the center of the room. Later, the president would drop in at a wedding being held at the estate, telling guests how much money the wedding party had paid him."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/mar-a-lago-north-korea-trump.html?_r=0

Three - http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/14/investing/janet-yellen-dodd-frank-trump/index.html

Four - Russia and Law Breaking - Flynn had to resign. Trump knew about it for three weeks. Now it is known that the campaign members had been in contact with Russia during the campaign. The FBI knew but said nothing - didn't want to influence the election. Ha ha.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-dossier-on-trump-gaining-credibility-with-law-enforcement/

Five - attacks on judiciary raise safety concerns.
SEATTLE -- When a judge who helped derail President Trump’s travel ban was hit with online threats, the abuse raised safety concerns among jurists across the country, and experts are worried that the president’s own attacks on the judiciary could make judges a more inviting target.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-attacks-judiciary-safety-concerns-judges/

Six - courts call immigration ban unconstitutional

Seven - Call for Evidence of Election Fraud Claim
"A commissioner on the Federal Election Commission called on President Trump Friday to provide evidence that backs up his reported claim that a widespread voter fraud scheme was committed in New Hampshire in the 2016 election. In a statement, Ellen L. Weintraub alluded to reports published Friday that say Mr. Trump has alleged that a voter fraud scheme occurred and that as a result, he lost the state in the election, as did incumbent GOP Sen. Kelly Ayotte.
“The scheme the president of the United States alleges would constitute thousands of felony criminal offenses under New Hampshire law,” Weintraub said in her statement. “The president has issued an extraordinarily serious and specific charge. Allegations of this magnitude cannot be ignored,” she said.

Weintraub then said that she calls on the president to “immediately share his evidence with the public and with the appropriate law-enforcement authorities so that his allegations may be investigated promptly and thoroughly.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fec-commissioner-calls-on-trump-to-provide-evidence-to-support-voter-fraud-claim/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=34400353


Eight - there are still people questioning why he won't produce his tax returns. This video is interesting.

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-cay-johnston-donald-trump-tax-returns-election-president-2016-10

Nine - costs of security for three places plus for all his family. Costs of trips to FL on Air Force One every weekend.

Ten - Costs of wall and who will build it if he deports all the Mexicans. Whistle


Eleven - battle with the press - recall Nixon?

Twelve - ones I missed

Thirteen - tomorrow's crisis

(I didn't need to spend much time on this - it was all right there.)


Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:42:55 AM
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My son and I have been screeching with laughter this morning: Trump's choice for Ambassador to Austria - chosen because he's watched The Sound of Music "like, 75 times".

"Respect", anyone?

almo 1
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:40:21 AM
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Romany wrote:


My son and I have been screeching with laughter this morning: Trump's choice for Ambassador to Austria - chosen because he's watched The Sound of Music "like, 75 times".

"Respect", anyone?





I thought that your son remained in China with his girl friend, according to my memory.




Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:53:19 AM

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Romany wrote:


My son and I have been screeching with laughter this morning: Trump's choice for Ambassador to Austria - chosen because he's watched The Sound of Music "like, 75 times".

"Respect", anyone?



Trump pick "happens to be" a fan of Sound of Music. This is slightly different than "due to" his love for Sound of Music. d'oh!
Previous Ambassador to Austria chosen for her ... hours and hours of participation in Track and Field? Anxious https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexa_L._Wesner
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 8:10:52 AM

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The present administration has taken all of the old stereotypes about government and the White House in particular, and exaggerated them to comical proportions. Presidential appointments are bought and paid for. Qualifications take a back seat to how much money you have given them.

Security is on display for all to see. Maybe next time we will actually get a guest filming the President opening the football, just to show off to "donors".

Surreal just keeps coming to mind as the only word that fits.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 10:56:22 AM
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Listener -

One point is that we weren't GIVEN any reason apart from that.

The overarching point is what kind of mind even thinks an obsession with 50 year old movie has any relevance at all to a political appointment.

And what on earth does that say to the Austrians themselves - that their new Ambassador expects them all to be prancing around dressing in curtains? That the position itself is unimportant? That America has no respect for Austria?

Geez, these guys aren't just operating amongst themselves - they HAVE to have some idea of how the world works outside of the USA - or else retire from it completely.

That's what diplomacy is all about.

towan52
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:45:46 AM

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The Kindergarten administration of the US keeps on surprising us - just when we though it couldn't get any worse.....?

Chelsea Elizabeth Manning for Secretary of State
Mike Tyson for Defense Secretary
Bernie Madoff for Secretary of Commerce
David Duke for Ambassador to Israel
Charles Manson for Secretary of Health & Human Services
Paris Hilton for Education Secretary
Dylann Roof for Head of Homeland Security
Sweeney Todd for Attorney General
David Petraeus's Mistress for National Security Adviser
Beyoncé for Press Secretary
Hillary Clinton - Head of Secure Communications

More suggestions welcomed!



"Today I was a hero. I rescued some beer that was trapped in a bottle"
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:56:44 AM

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Romany wrote:

Listener -

One point is that we weren't GIVEN any reason apart from that.

The overarching point is what kind of mind even thinks an obsession with 50 year old movie has any relevance at all to a political appointment.

And what on earth does that say to the Austrians themselves - that their new Ambassador expects them all to be prancing around dressing in curtains? That the position itself is unimportant? That America has no respect for Austria?

Geez, these guys aren't just operating amongst themselves - they HAVE to have some idea of how the world works outside of the USA - or else retire from it completely.

That's what diplomacy is all about.



I think the trick to the pick is the campaign donors or ... friends with the President, in the case of Ambassador to Austria. Obama appointed campaign donors, too. I don't remember any outrage over his pick for Ambassador to Hungary who had little knowledge of the country he'd be living in ... he was a soap opera producer. Anxious https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-ambassador-nominees-prompt-an-uproar-with-bungled-answers-lack-of-ties/2014/02/14/20fb0fe4-94b2-11e3-83b9-1f024193bb84_story.html?utm_term=.e491c547833b

http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/news/a9575/patrick-park-trump-austrian-ambassador/


Remember the media skews the news....reading more than one article will clarify that Trump did not pick the Ambassador to Austria for the reason that he watched The Sound of Music. Choosing for such a reason would be ridiculous and, I am sure, Trump would find that reason ridiculous, as well.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:17:29 PM

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There was no outrage over Obama's picks because the people he chose actually had verifiable "EXPERIENCE".

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:13:21 PM

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/database/ Updated yesterday.

Many vacancies still to be filled! It is a big job, especially when many don't want to ruin future ambitions with being associated with this administration - plus the Dems have to approve some of them.

::::

Listening, I get no hits from mainstream US media sites about the appointment to Austria, and don't trust the other sites. It is Australia and the UK media that are reporting it. His experience is not his taste in films - it is being IN with T.

Love this quote in comments on the above website -

"Not to worry. It's a government of the 1%, by the 1% and for the 1%. All others please take a number."


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/trump-friend-and-sound-of-music-fan-park-to-be-us-envoy-to-austria/news-story/0825f0885053addddaa65b98c87d4797


"A lifelong fan of The Sound of Music is set to say so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye to Florida after being appointed US ambassador to Austria by his friend President Donald Trump.

Patrick Park, 63, a concert pianist and real estate businessman, has no diplomatic experience but has seen the musical film starring Julie Andrews as an Austrian governess so many times that he knows all the words by heart."

:::::

Austria should be glad - rumors are that if she can see Canada 🇨🇦from her window and can find us, the Canadian ambassador might be Sarah Palin! 😱😱😱That is when you HOPE it is fake news.


Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:59:27 PM

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I guess if playing golf and hiring undocumented immigrants is all the experience you need then the current administration has an embarrassment of riches to choose from.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:10:14 PM

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I am sure that it often is who one knows that gets one the job in many cases. But they should at least have some rudimentary qualifications.

Others knew Flynn's background and questioned the appropriateness of his appointment before it happened, but T did not listen.

There is an accumulating perception of lack of judgment and competency, and of ineffectiveness in this administration. They seem to have an inability to see real 🌎 world consequences of the decisions coming from the White House.

The Washington Post was the media that wrote a series of articles all week, forcing T to admit that the FBI knew BEFORE the inauguration and that he himself was told on January 26th, that Page, Stone, and Flynn had broken the law by talking to Russia. T KEPT it from his VP till it hit the media on Feb 9th. If I were Pence, I'd be mad as hell, letting him make a fool of himself. Good journalism, WP!

And what is up with the FBI seemingly being partisan? Trump is only complaining now when it affects him negatively.

But even worse to ME - is that the reason some Americans are upset, is not because of what Flynn DID but because he lied. I have seen this many times in the US that lying is worse than the crime committed, which makes no sense. And yet they are willing to accept lie after lie from T and even here where he kept vital information from his VP and did not fire Flynn, as he loves to do, life goes on today as if nothing happened. And we're off to the next discussion of another appointment to distract us.

Flynn was open to blackmail, and he opened fresh suspicions to T's ties to the Kremlin, yet when Flynn surprisingly talked to the Daily Caller, he said T expressed confidence in him. There again is T's lack of being able to judge character.

Not only did Flynn commit a crime and lie, his management was chaotic and his senior cabinet ministers were angry and out of the loop. He was the one who should have gotten the key members to a safer place in the "Winter White House" for their discussion on North Korea - but it never even occurred to him that security was important in what could be a national crisis. Allowing a photo of the guy with the nuclear codes "football" on FB? And of course we all know that an android unsecured phone being used by the president and allowing people with phones without clearance around classifed material where they could eavesdrop is not as bad as using your own email account.

After all Flynn was only the National Security Advisor

Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:13:46 PM

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"This isn't just about what happened with Gen. Flynn," Coons told MSNBC. "What did President Trump know? What did the president know and when did he know it?" Coons said, echoing a question made famous by the Watergate scandal, which forced President Richard Nixon to resign in 1974.

A timeline of events outlined by Spicer and a U.S. official showed that Trump had known for weeks about Flynn misleading the vice-president...

U.S. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer called for an investigation of potential criminal violations surrounding the resignation of Flynn and said senior Trump administration officials should face tough questions."

But they need the justice department or Congress and Ryan has sidestepped the question.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-flynn-national-security-1.3982329


Equality is when you see a person - not a label.
Listening . . .
Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:20:14 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/database/ Updated yesterday.

Many vacancies still to be filled! It is a big job, especially when many don't want to ruin future ambitions with being associated with this administration - plus the Dems have to approve some of them.

::::

Listening, I get no hits from mainstream US media sites about the appointment to Austria, and don't trust the other sites. It is Australia and the UK media that are reporting it. His experience is not his taste in films - it is being IN with T.

Love this quote in comments on the above website -

"Not to worry. It's a government of the 1%, by the 1% and for the 1%. All others please take a number."


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/trump-friend-and-sound-of-music-fan-park-to-be-us-envoy-to-austria/news-story/0825f0885053addddaa65b98c87d4797


"A lifelong fan of The Sound of Music is set to say so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye to Florida after being appointed US ambassador to Austria by his friend President Donald Trump.

Patrick Park, 63, a concert pianist and real estate businessman, has no diplomatic experience but has seen the musical film starring Julie Andrews as an Austrian governess so many times that he knows all the words by heart."

:::::

Austria should be glad - rumors are that if she can see Canada 🇨🇦from her window and can find us, the Canadian ambassador might be Sarah Palin! 😱😱😱That is when you HOPE it is fake news.




I don't agree with the method of choosing Ambassadors based on donations or friendships but, sadly, that seems to be the way it is. I provided links showing Obama did the same thing when choosing his ambassadors. Progpen seems to think Obama's choice for Hungary who was a producer of soap operas was qualified. Rather than complain about Trump's choice, the bigger issue seems to be that presidents can fill the position of ambassador who may not have valid qualifications for the job. This is not about Trump or Austria. It's about a method that needs to be cleaned up.
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