The Free Dictionary  
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Writer's group Options
wercozy
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:44:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
Do you have something you want critiqued but you know your friends and family won't be entirely honest because they love you too much?

Try it here...

I'll start:

Her eyes were iceberg blue, illuminated softly by the midnight moon.

You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

uuaschbaer
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:55:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/2009
Posts: 1,368
Points: 4,133
Location: Europe
I'd be overestimating my friends and family or myself if I felt the need to contribute something original to this thread but I'm never one to leave untaken any opportunity to viciously eviscerate hopeful, daring, or ambitious new writers. However your sentence is fine; any way I could critique it would be arbitrary, wherefore the resulting critique should only be used to look at your phrase from a different point of view and not be followed. With that in mind:

You make a modernly worded start: Her eyes were iceberg blue,. The fact that you compare her eye colour to icebergs rather than, say, sapphires comes across as jesting, not the least because most readers would never have seen an iceberg. The reason why one would go into eye colours ordinarily is romance, but unless iceberg blue eyes are the new rose red lips this would have to be a parodic romance. It seems likelier in this case that the eyes are involved to suggest particular character traits, especially innocence and youth. For some reason one never hears a nonagenarian described by the colour of their eyes––or lips for that matter––,which is a shame because If you did you would quite ironically hear that their lips are blue and their eyes red.

Anyhow onto the next: illuminated softly. Suddenly after this ice cold fresh and modern––and Germanic I might add––start we delve into the warm depths of Romanic origins in our encounter with 'illuminated'. It appears to be standing there so proudly in the middle of the sentence as if it's just usurped his evil little brother 'lit' who has been forced to trade his hometown for a cave after his wife was turned into a pillar of sult.

(Sorry, it's the time of night when I find these things unspeakably funny.)

As I was saying, the soft view that we are asked to take of this girl delineates a soft character. It shouldn't be this way, but it is; at least in my mind, I couldn't imagine Hitler in soft light for instance. This may be what you're after however, so time to move on.

by the midnight moon. Moons are fine; you can have early moons in the 1940s in China, late moons 440 BC, but midnight moons are restricted to gothic graveyards behind castles in Eastern Europe between 1896 and 1898 and your last name is Stoker. Also doesn't midnight moonlight tend to be harsher than early and late moonlight? (My personal record of nitpicking I'm sure but soft illumination may fit better with low moons.)

At risk of sounding even more like the kind of person you would take pleasure in strangling I'd like to suggest moving the blue bit to the end of the sentence. It's easier to imagine the effect of blue eyes shimmering in the dark knowing in advance of seeing the eyes that it is dark. That is because unless you tell me that it is dark I'm going to assume that it is not dark when you tell me about the eyes. So if you tell me about the eyes first and then about the darkness my imagination depicts first a bright scene with bright blue eyes and then a dark scene with rather disappointing blue eyes whereas the other way round I assume the darkness first before there appear two softly blue eyes. Either way I have trouble imagining them as iceberg blue in the dark, though. Maybe that description is best reserved for situations in which bright light can actually show the iceberg-blueness of the eyes so that it is more than just this random fact floating around that is nice knowing but which we don't have to imagine right now.

Softly lit by an early moon were her eyes that were also blue. This is what my personal and unjustifiably ill-supported preference would amount to. I hope it can be only half as helpful as it undoubtedly is offensive.

The opposite of hatred is love; the opposite of tyranny is love; the opposite of censorship is love; the opposite of evil is love; the opposite of politics is love; the opposite of war is love; the opposite of god is love.–– Salman Rushdie
Broadly speaking, it is held that getting money is good and spending money is bad. Seeing that they are two sides of one transaction, this is absurd; one might as well maintain that keys are good, but keyholes are bad. Whatever merit there may be in the production of goods must be entirely derivative from the advantage to be obtained by consuming them. –Bertrand Russell
Never believe a liar. Papa, angry people burn our home.
excaelis
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 9:44:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 5,697
Points: 17,030
Location: Canada
The only thing I'd change is to substitute ' lit ' for ' illuminated '. There's an internal alliteraton of the '-ly lit ' that reflects, as the eyes do the light, the alliteration of ' midnight moon ' as well as the '-berg blue ' pairing. I tend to admire simplicity in writing so I generally have a prejudice for simpler words. Oh, and I like the lilt of ' softly lit ', echoing the seascape which frames ( in my mind ) the image of the iceberg.

Sanity is not statistical
jcbarros
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 9:48:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/2010
Posts: 1,416
Points: 4,260
Location: Argentina
Very hard a critic you were U. Did´nt you, perhaps, were withering a writer´s call?

Your alternative does lack poetry. Maybe icebergs are not blue at all, but who cares?

The important thing is the picture, not the words. If you can convey the former the latter are trivial,
ludic
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:00:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/7/2010
Posts: 1,148
Points: 3,457
Location: India
If you consider the sentence symbolic, you can imagine the iceberg as a harsh, callous, cold person; whose good side is being educed by the beauty and light of a gentler, more clement person: someone in whose aura everything looks, or even becomes something better.

वसुधैव कुटुम्बकं - हितोपदेश The world is my family.- Hitopadesh


.....................
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:11:33 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
"Her eyes were iceberg blue, illuminated softly by the midnight moon."

To me the beginning phrase doesn't go with the second phrase. There is something jarring about it. Personally it is hard for me to imagine iceberg eyes of any color being softly illuminated. I think of ice, coldness and the color white. I guess it is the image of an iceberg that comes to mind, not eyes. When I think of ice bergs, I think of a looming mass of white ice...I guess I just can't get beyond the ice to warm up to the second part of the sentence.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:15:41 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
To Ludic: That might be a good way of looking at it.
Romany
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:29:13 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 2,443
Points: 7,183
Location: China
I also have a hard time with the two pieces of the sentence.

No problem with the ice-berg blue...but that particular blue is a light, almost phosphorescent colour. As a blue iceberg is cold, sharp, glittering I'm getting an image of cold eyes (especially that creepy light blue iceberg colour which I always associate with serial killers or Nazi torturers!)

So, for me, the next part simply jars: illuminated softly by the midnight moon is, as someone said, a romantic phrase and its hard for me to imagine that the soft light of that moon would do anything at all to those (imagined) pale, glittering (serial-killer) eyes.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 10:52:07 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,910
Points: 59,736
Location: Helsinki, Finland
BTW, most Finns have grey or green eyes ;-)




I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:07:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
When I think of "iceberg blue" eyes, I think of the White Witch in C.S. Lewis's Narnia tales (The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe) who holds Narnia under an eternal winter without Christmas or Spring or Summer...In the film the White Witch was portrayed really good. Exactly how imagine iceberg eyes and the type of person who has them.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:13:45 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
To J.J.
( I like your picture.:)

I hope you do not think that I am implying that people with gray or light blue or green eyes are cold, unfeeling people...I don't think the color has anything to do with it. In fact I think that these colors are very beautiful for eyes.
kitten
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:15:07 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/2009
Posts: 2,466
Points: 7,414
Location: the city by the bay
Her eyes were iceberg blue, illuminated softly by the midnight moon.


Her iceberg blue eyes were softly illuminated by the midnight moon.


I do think of cold hard eyes when I see 'iceberg.'


peace out, >^,,^<


The poor object to being governed badly, whilst the rich object to being governed at all. G.K. Chesterton
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:17:57 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
To J.J.

BTW your monster has black eyes.:)
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:39:54 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,910
Points: 59,736
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To J.J.
( I like your picture.:)

I hope you do not think that I am implying that people with gray or light blue or green eyes are cold, unfeeling people...I don't think the color has anything to do with it. In fact I think that these colors are very beautiful for eyes.




My eyes are dark green-grey-blue, so dark the girls thought they were black or dark brown when I was young and rock&rolling in the discotheques ;-)


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:41:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
A beautiful example of blue eyes that are the antitheses of iceberg eyes.

And what about your disco days...?:)
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:47:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,910
Points: 59,736
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oh, those disco times, sigh!




I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
wercozy
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:03:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
Thank you uuaschbaer for your careful consideration of my humble sentence. I was not offended by your comments and I feel your critique was stellar.

excaelis, I originally had back-lit instead of illuminated, but changed it because my husband thought it sounded corny as if the light were coming from behind the eyeballs. I also originally incorporated blue moon but changed it to midnight moon. You are right, simplicity works better.

Nice symbolism ludic.

JJ, that's it... that's the color I was thinking of.


Thank you one and all. As you can see creative writing is not easy, and it's even more difficult to get an honest critic.

WHO'S NEXT?

You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

jmacann
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:07:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/2011
Posts: 1,297
Points: 3,887
Location: Spain
Beautiful eyes indeed. Sorry, but tend to think of livor... when in the wavelength of blueish shades -not that there are signs of any purplish red discoloration of the skin, which would not show in the eyes. I know, but...
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:03:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
To wercozy:

I really like the picture you posted of the iceberg. It is one of the best pictures I have seen. I especially like the deep and muted colors of the sky and water. It actually seems as if one is looking at an iceberg at night in the shadows of the moon. But one also has a sense of "atmosphere" about it." It has changed my mental perception of icebergs at night.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:38:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,910
Points: 59,736
Location: Helsinki, Finland
An icy blue picture of Finnish winter by Kari Liimatainen:




I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:53:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 19,910
Points: 59,736
Location: Helsinki, Finland
... and couple of pics of my own. We call the late afternoon light just before and after sunset the "Blue Moment". It can last more than an hour and if you're lucky you have a camera with you when at the right place at that moment.

From Lapland, last Janyary



From our sauna balcony, last December



From our "beach"




I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
wercozy
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:49:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
Does anyone else have any written work they would like critiqued? Here's your chance to grow as a writer.

Maybe someone can explain a "peach/golden moment" just before the sun goes down. Here's some inspiration:


You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

fayalso
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:39:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/1/2009
Posts: 147
Points: 444
Location: Connecticut
wercozy wrote:


Her eyes were iceberg blue, illuminated softly by the midnight moon.


I realize that you've moved on but I want to add one thing. I agree that the iceberg blue seems at odds with soft moonlight, but I see it as a contrast that strengthens the image of cold blue eyes.
OK, that's all. Go ahead and move on to golden peaches.

"What is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or conversations?"
fayalso
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:41:15 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/1/2009
Posts: 147
Points: 444
Location: Connecticut
BTW, just looked outside, and the sunset here is quite peachy. (Not offering this sentence for critique. Just an observation.)

"What is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or conversations?"
wercozy
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:32:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
Did anyone notice the reflection of the helicopter in the water to the left of the surfer? You can see the body of the helicopter along with the silhouette of the door and windows. To the right of the surfer is the rotor and blades. Behind the wave in the foreground are waves created by the powerful spinning blades. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but only words can tell what the untrained eye misses.

You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

Kikker
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:26:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/2011
Posts: 509
Points: 1,516
wercozy wrote:
Did anyone notice the reflection of the helicopter in the water to the left of the surfer? You can see the body of the helicopter along with the silhouette of the door and windows. To the right of the surfer is the rotor and blades. Behind the wave in the foreground are waves created by the powerful spinning blades. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but only words can tell what the untrained eye misses.


I think wercozy is seeing ghosts. Due to the laws of geometrical optics a reflection of the helicopter should be right beneath the camera, but that part of the water is outside the picture. It also can't be a shade of the helicopter because the sunlight is comming from behind the surfer. Even if you would be able to see a reflection of the helicopter the reflection of the rotorblades should be above the helicopter and can never be on the right- or leftside of it. The only thing I see is a reflection of a monster just infront of the surfer! Eh?


Diagram of specular reflection

If you turn the diagram 90 degrees clockwise the mirror is the horizontal surface of the water. "P" the position of the helicopter + camera and "Q" the position where the reflection can be seen. Only if the surface of the water would be tilted in such a way that it is in an angle of 90 degrees to the sightline of the camera it is posible that the camera can see the reflection of the helicopter. Maybe the surface of the big wave is in that tilted position, but the curved form of a wave will disturb the image.
wercozy
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:20:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
No ghosts, I assure you. I'm not referring to the darkened area you refer to as a "monster." Because the light is behind the wave, it becomes an optical illusion mirror. Look at the peach colored part of the wave -- maybe you need glasses.

You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

Kikker
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:03:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/2011
Posts: 509
Points: 1,516
wercozy wrote:
-- maybe you need glasses.

Nooo... need no glasses, have more than a pair of them. Maybe need more fantasy?
wercozy
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:55:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Points: 3,480
Location: United States
I'm sure glad the tread took the path of the OP....
Good bye!

You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. Jonathan Swift

Kikker
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:59:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/2011
Posts: 509
Points: 1,516
wercozy wrote:
...but only words can tell what the untrained eye misses.

Wercozy, I've been a light engineer and light designer for 25 years. So don't try to fool me with reflections that are not there and than telling me that my eye is untrained or that I need glasses.
If you want to proof your superiority above us, find a better way to do so.
Bye
spellcheck
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:06:17 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 31
Points: 93
Location: United States
.
Eagerness bestowed upon the young

Not to be wasted, but labored

Energies that have no off switch

Chasing all of lifes dreams

Effortless is the call to play

Up a staircase,down a hall

Entering doorways, laughter

Bargaining for the latest hour

Escaping for just a few more

Time has caught up with this day

Enveloped in moonlight, stars

Sleep turns off the switch

Every dream will be an adventure


Not alone, nor am I present
spellcheck
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:45:15 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 31
Points: 93
Location: United States
A woman, wife, mother, my friend

Joanne asks for a miracle as others ask why

Helpless as this life meets a sudden end

In a room with her love, a man once so strong

Keeps her bright smile as she comforts others

"I love you", Jo says, the words still belong

He speaks them himself, in a whisper for her

They kiss on the lips, a love not lost, nor ended

Joanne tells Bill to get rest and remember

"I'll be back tomorrow ", as he drifts off to sleep


Not alone, nor am I present
Alias
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2011 7:07:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 672
Points: 1,978
Location: Australia
The (illuminated) part of the wave is to the left of the surfer and to the surfers right... Is that right? err now whats left ...?? oh yes ...thats right, the writing!...Well thats it then all thats left is to write something...about the picture..d'oh!

Actually I am more concerned about the 5 metre white-pointer shark that is currently just out of shot..Anxious

Picture This

I went out for a surf one day
the waves were peachy keen
The light reflected off the bay
painting a beautiful scene

A helicopter flew overhead
but none could prove it there
The idea was just in my head
a thought I could not bare

Then a shadow just out of shot
a leviathan appeared anew
Its powerful jaws not hard to spot
chomp chomp and then.. adieu !!!Anxious


BTW Kikker..How about if there are two helicopters and the second helicopter is taking the pics and the first helicopter is reflected in its lens...?????? Think

A Genie told me I could have one wish...Either a large Penis or a Long memory...I forget which one I chose. :)
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2011 8:30:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,252
Points: 3,693
To Alias:

In your poem, I don't understand the second verse about the helicopter. I'm not sure how you are tying to tie it into the first verse of your the poem in which the surfer who went out for a surf, or its meaning in the last verse. In your last verse, I don't understand how a surfer is taking a picture--the shark being just out of shot. I guess I just don't understand the meaning of the helicopter and and taking a picture.

Are you trying to say you didn't see the danger because of your limited perspective? You didn't look at the big picture, only what was in front of you?

I think it could still be a good poem if you chose to leave the above out. But you should get more opinions from others who might have a better understanding and sense for poetry. Ruth P. is good at understanding things. Maybe she will voice an opinion.
Alias
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2011 11:44:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 672
Points: 1,978
Location: Australia
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To Alias:

In your poem, I don't understand the second verse about the helicopter. I'm not sure how you are tying to tie it into the first verse of your the poem in which the surfer who went out for a surf, or its meaning in the last verse. In your last verse, I don't understand how a surfer is taking a picture--the shark being just out of shot. I guess I just don't understand the meaning of the helicopter and and taking a picture.

Are you trying to say you didn't see the danger because of your limited perspective? You didn't look at the big picture, only what was in front of you?

I think it could still be a good poem if you chose to leave the above out. But you should get more opinions from others who might have a better understanding and sense for poetry. Ruth P. is good at understanding things. Maybe she will voice an opinion.



Thank you for caring enough to read and respond to my trite dribblings Marissa...
Ok here is the explanation:

The description is a direct response to the echange between Wercosy and Kiker regarding the photo of the surfer Wercosy posted... The reference to Peachy was initiated earlier by WC and then I added a little observational wit regarding the dissent between WC and Kiker over the possibility of a helicopter being reflected in the wave in the picture.

The reference to the shark is just me being even sillier...I suggested earlier in the discussion that although a helicopter may or may not be hidden in the photo of the surfer, there was a shark just outside of the frame of the shot (picture)that was about to enter the idyllic scene and reek havoc!!!

Furthermore I deliberately chose the term "adieu" not merely to rhyme with "anew" and to suggest the demise of the surfer at the jaws of the "leviathan" but also because the term "adieu" means goodbye in French...I placed it at the "end" of the poem... Which was a cheeky slight to WC and Kiker who both curtly signed off with a cutting "goodbye" as a closing riposte to each other....

Hmmmm I know, I know I am just so obscure!!! ha ha..

As for my ryhming it is not much more than doggerel but can be lots of fun if used in this way...Thanks again for commenting Marissa. Angel

A Genie told me I could have one wish...Either a large Penis or a Long memory...I forget which one I chose. :)
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.