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Don't believe all negative "news" about the United States Options
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 7:52:21 AM
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Dear fair-minded international friends:

When you hear negative "news" about the United States, please do NOT immediately believe it.

As you all know, human beings are notorious liars.

Wait until there is a fair investigation before you believe something negative about the United States (or any other country)!

*****

A few days ago, a young lady in New York City claimed that she was mistreated on the subway by some supporters of President-elect Trump. The men supposedly said unkind things about her religion and did not treat her clothing with respect.

She now admits that it was a total lie.

She made it up because she was out partying and didn't want her strict parents to know.

*****

I once read that a good police officer never believes anyone at first. A good police officer waits until ALL the facts are in before forming an opinion.


Some people want to make the United States look bad.

That is why they lie.

American children have this saying: Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!

James Morris
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:35:25 AM
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How true. I can relate this to what I learned in a writing class among some fellow military veterans. One day, the discussion turned to the idea that leaders, to get soldiers to hate the enemy, vilify them. As I researched different cultures, I discover there is no basic hatred for anybody except when there is conflict, and that conflict has to be created. Further there seems to be somebody's vested interest in stirring up animosity for the enemy by the powers that be that profit from the conflict of others. Trouble is, when this happens, logic and straight thinking vanish. I see this in the example of spreading negative news, "false news stories." There is another old American word for this, which might be well known world wide. It's called "spreading gossip." Further, it seems that only a small number of people, as in the case of the trump supporters attacking those not in their camp, that go around stirring up animosity. A word for people of this ilk are called hatemongers. A good thing I've found when I run into hatemongers and gossipers is to just walk away and then observe all the friendly people who aren't displaying hate.
James Morris
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:56:20 AM
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Interesting how this can work two ways, the one's that spread hate for others and then there is the people who make false reports about being harassed. Some stories are true and some are false. Waiting for the case to be investigated by authorities does seem to be the best solution. I just wish the new media would wait for the investigation to be done before making the report.
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:25:55 AM
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James Morris wrote:
I just wish the new media would wait for the investigation to be done before making the report.



I do, too, Mr. Morris.

But the media think that they should report everything (including rumors, etc.) as soon as possible.

The media claim that they are the first draft of history so that it's OK to publish stuff that later turns out to be untrue.

The media are especially vicious about embarrassing people.

My local paper thought it was newsworthy to humiliate a TV star of the 1970s because she was accused of driving drunk. They even published an unflattering photo.

Of course, it never did have the decency to let us know about the disposition of the case.

If, in fact, the authorities decided that there was no case against her and let her go, then the paper should never have embarrassed her in the first place.

(I can understand why "certain" countries censor the news. It does prevent a lot of lies, rumors, and downright cruelty on the part of "journalists.")

*****

I recently read that the son of the first female member of Parliament was jailed because of a very embarrassing incident. Since she was a member of the British Establishment, all the newspapers agreed NOT to publish the news about her son. I think that the newspapers did the right thing. What had happened to her son was nobody's business.

Some people speculate that print newspapers (those printed on paper) are losing readers NOT because of the Internet. But because readers are smart: They know that most newspapers do not dare report the brutal truth about what is happening in the country and in the world.


Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:16:08 AM

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I know this as the "Third Party Law"

Two people (or groups) can disagree - this is not a problem - but for actual conflict, a third party must exist unseen and must develop the conflict.
It is very easy to see that two in conflict are fighting. They are very visible. What is harder to see or suspect is that a third party existed and actively promoted the quarrel.

Simple disagreement:
I don't agree with Joe's choice of political party. I tell him so. He tells me why he chose that party, I tell him why I chose the opposition. We discuss things.

Conflict:

I don't agree with Joe's choice of political party. I tell him so. Bill tells Joe that I've been spreading lies about Joe.
Joe refuses to talk to me. Bill tells me that Joe said that my party eat children. I go to see Joe and accuse him of lying. Joe accuses me of lying. It becomes a fight.

If you were to ask both sides "Who said 'they' were bad" - then go to the people named and ask the same thing - again and again, eventually you would find someone on that 'chain' who lied about BOTH sides, and who cannot name anyone who told them.

One of the troubles with the media is that they spread this "Third-party disinformation" and refuse to reveal sources. Each lie (as well as some truths!) appear in twenty different newspapers at the same time as 'facts'.

One reporter being told by a friend over a drink "A little old guy in Keokuk, who had once met a friend of a girl who once went out with Robert Kennedy, told a friend of mine that he'd heard that President Kennedy was gay." ends up in all the national newspapers the next day as "Kennedy was Gay!"

***************
Of course, another point is - would "the authorities" actually investigate, or would they use smoke and mirrors to cover everything up?

***********
Rumour-monger
Gossip
Spreader of hearsay
Scandal-monger
Muck-spreader
tattletale
cat (though a 'cat' is normally more overtly spiteful - the others are covert)

************
Edited to add:

I just remembered this thread, which gives very similar ideas (a slightly different viewpoint, but rather similar).

I have the idea (not FACTs or even surveyed statistics) that the actual originators of these lies are very few - maybe a couple of percent of the population, if that.
But then there are a much larger number of 'sheep' who react automatically to - and repeat - any 'news' which opposes a group which they oppose (much more than to news which supports the group which they support).

I think that most people are more discerning, but with the (what will calls the) 'drip-drip effect' wears everyone down.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
srirr
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 6:01:22 AM

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TheParser said:
But the media think that they should report everything (including rumors, etc.) as soon as possible.

I have a different point. Media do not report everything; they just report which can be sold. Some surveys report levels of freedom of press in different parts of the world. Some state the authenticity of the press reports in different countries. But what I have felt (especially in my part of the world) that earlier media used to report "facts" or "actual news". Sometimes these news were falsely reported by correspondents or common men because of their personal interest or rivalry. But mostly the reports were based on facts.
Nowadays, the press reports are not made to state the fact or truth. These are made for "purely business". Anything that can sell should be the media coverage. The report should be moulded and fabricated and tweaked and distorted just to fit in the selling points. It hardly matters whether that report is presenting the actual "truth" or not. Simple money-making business.


We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. ~ Swami Vivekanand
TheParser
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2016 6:57:47 AM
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srirr wrote:

Nowadays, the press reports are not made to state the fact or truth. These are made for "purely business".



What a coincidence!

Five minutes ago, I was watching a TV discussion in which a fair-minded "conservative" (think Republican Party) said that the "liberal" (think Democratic Party) newspaper New York Times has lost its mind.

It seems that the NYT had a big headline (albeit in a section devoted to views) that the United States of America was in mortal danger because of the election of Donald J. Trump. The NYT questioned whether the republic would survive.

That "conservative" commentator was beside himself with outrage at such stupidity!

As you said, however, the NYT knows its audience: they are mostly "liberals."

They want this kind of talk, so the NYT (which is begging people to subscribe, at least to its digital edition) is giving its readers what they want.

*****

People in other countries have heard that the NYT is the best newspaper in the country (or even in the world!).

That is NOT true.

It is still living on its reputation from years ago, when MAYBE it actually was a bit more objective than other newspapers.

If any international member / guest wants to know what is REALLY going on in this country, do NOT waste your time and money reading the NYT.

I do not know, however, what IS a good source of accurate information about this country.

Maybe there isn't any American source.

Maybe the best source is a foreign source, although I do not know of any.




EPT31
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:35:31 AM
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Une rumeur et un démenti, ce sont deux informations - Pierre Lazareff

A gossip and a denial make two news.

Pierre Lazareff was head of many French newspapers from the '30s to the '60s.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 5:51:12 AM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
EPT31 wrote:
A gossip and a denial make two (items of) news.

Yes - the refutal (in the media) of a lie merely spreads the lie.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
TheParser
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 11:28:19 AM
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TheParser wrote:
Dear fair-minded international friends:

When you hear negative "news" about the United States, please do NOT immediately believe it.






If you are following the news in your country, you will have heard a lot of negative news about the U.S. recently.

Please do not believe it.

President Trump is simply trying to make sure that dangerous immigrants do not enter the country.

Some judges disagree with his methods.

The matter will be eventually settled by the courts, probably the Supreme Court.

That is how things work here: The President, the Congress, and the Supreme Court share power. They work together in accordance with the Constitution.

Please remember: those protesters in the street do NOT represent good Americans who believe in respecting the results of elections and who believe in expressing their opinions in a civil manner.

Hope123
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 3:04:59 PM

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This thread now belongs in the "Politics" section. Parser, it would be nice if you would request Admins to move it.

But I must challenge your last statement - protesting is a form of free speech protected by the Constitution. These protesters have been doing it civilly and peacefully, in spite of fake news to the contrary.

For instance it is true that an ambulance was caught in the traffic, but it is not true that the protesters purposely blocked it. Fortunately the person is fine. There are videos. Now Spicer is saying that the protesters are paid. There is no evidence for this at all. Besides, nobody could afford to pay all the millions of protesters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/06/the-white-house-and-fox-join-forces-to-undermine-anti-trump-protests-as-violent-and-fake/?utm_term=.813db925512a

We don't believe all the negative news nor do we believe all the positive news. We can figure out what is what.





Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. Anon
Hope123
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 7:34:52 PM

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When the White House, Congress, and Senate are all lead by the same party, the Courts are the only check. And when the White House leader attacks a Judiciary member on Twitter, how well does that go over? This is not the first time he has attacked a judge.

"I think it is best not to single out judges for criticism," said the Senate's top Republican — Mitch McConnell of Kentucky — on CNN's State of the Union.

It is called Trump's most bone chilling tweet for this reason -

"Let's be blunt, because the stakes demand it: An independent federal judiciary is our last, best hope at preventing Trump from violating the US Constitution and illegally grabbing power. And Trump has to understand that, hence his attempt to undermine it.

The President truly appears to be leading a master class in transforming the United States into a dictatorship. Trump -- and it's fair to assume it is by design -- has sought to undermine anyone or anything that tries to counter him."

The author said he gave the title a lot of thought before he used it and it was not done easily.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/opinions/donald-trumps-most-bone-chilling-tweet-obeidallah-opinion/

Only the first tweet is quoted below - a spokesperson says this is exactly the disruption that the supporters voted for, don't be surprised, and it is not going to change. Posters here seem all for what he is doing.

I only know what I have heard the Constitutional Law experts say, I can see points on both sides, but I am mostly expecting T to win. But still - calling a federal judge "so-called" and his ruling ridiculous...

"Feb 4
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!"

No fake news here - I got it right off his Twitter account. Then I always check several other media sources here and overseas. That is how you find out what is really happening.

And don't think foreign leaders are not watching his Twitter account too - and may react having a head's up as to what he is thinking.

Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. Anon
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 5:03:48 AM
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Please!! RESTRICT POLITICS TO THE POLITICS THREAD.



Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 10:02:10 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Ro, I'm waiting for Parser to do the right thing and ask for it to be moved. It was started in December and since we have discussed this since then, should not have been added to now. However, I could not let what was already said go uncorrected. I do agree with you about restricting Politics to the Politics sub forum, Grammar to Grammar, Religion to Religion etc. That is how it is organized.

Sometimes the longest way around is the shortest way home. Anon
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