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Life requires death or not? Options
Ebenezer Son
Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2016 6:47:40 PM
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I was watching a movie and two persons spoke of life from different point of view, which quite baffled me a lot. One said life requires death. And the other said life does not need death, but love is the true key to enlightement. Obviously, I was inclined to belief what the former said, because as far as I know humans life come to an end at death which explicitly implies that, life requires death. I'm however inclined to disbelieve what the latter said, because if life does not need death why do we[humans] die in the first place? Please what do you say in response?
Many thanks

I know only one thing - that is that I know nothing.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:24:03 PM

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Hi Ebenezer.

There are many different ways to look at this.

1. From a purely 'biological' viewpoint, bodies wear out, joints become worn and frayed - so it can become extremely uncomfortable to live too long.
However, with improving medicine, replacement parts and so on, there could come a time when (from that viewpoint) infinitely long life could be possible.


2. From a Gaian viewpoint, the Earth can only support so many people. With very efficient agriculture and aquaculture, and with cooperation between all men, with the current technology, the Earth could support more than ten billion.
Above that, the death rate needs to equal the birth-rate.

3. From a Christian/Muslim/Jewish viewpoint (if one of those is your 'thing'), how would you ever meet God if you didn't die?

There are other ways to look at the question - those three are the ways I know best.



Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
mactoria
Posted: Friday, December 02, 2016 6:19:32 AM
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Ebenezer: thanks for posting this. As for life requiring death or not, as DragOnspeaker indicates, it's really a personal belief as to whether to agree or disagree I think. It also depends on how one interprets the statement, since it was in a movie it would be considered "literature" and as such leaves interpretation open to the listener/reader. The thing that caught my attention was the second part of the "not" side: "but love is the true key to enlightenment." That may be (or not, depending on your belief), but it seems like a non sequitur in the life/death discussion. Life requiring death or not, doesn't seem to be related to "love is the key of enlightenment." Just my reaction. Maybe one just had to see the movie to get the connection of the two different thought....
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2016 12:41:39 PM

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One said life requires death.
The question is 'Does life require death?' "require' is not proper word. It should be 'Does life follow death?'.
The answer is 'yes'.
And why, its known to the one who gives life.
And who is He? There are many myths and theories but nobody knows the exact sequence.


Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
Epipactis
Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 8:15:30 AM

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Savior told sinners not to sin, even though they were dead in their trespasses.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 9:17:48 AM

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I think if you understand "life" as presence of a body in the physical world, then it does require death. Because, whatever unbelievably advanced the design of biological creatures is, it is the very nature of the physical world that complex systems tend to decay. So the body does wear out over time, at some rate, inevitably. And at some point ceases to function, i.e. dies.

But then of course there is what we call one's "soul". This is a non-material structure, I think it relates to the body the way software relates to hardware in a computer. It's a set of information and logical links. As such, it can exist independently of the physical body. Just like a computer program can exist in a programmer's mind even without or before being installed on any computer. So it's an idea or set of ideas.

Now, the question has of course always been whether that mass of ideas and information developed by an individual human being over his/her lifetime (i.e. his/her soul) ceases to exist with the death of the physical body, or is it subjected to some kind of scrutiny, or, as some believe, gets "reincarnated" in another body,or something... This we will probably not know for sure for quite a while even in the best case scenario Speak to the hand
Verbatim
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 12:05:28 AM
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To be true to life, before death, life requires living it.
Dreamy
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:35:49 PM

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Ebenezer Son wrote:
I was watching a movie and two persons spoke of life from different point of view, which quite baffled me a lot. One said life requires death. And the other said life does not need death, but love is the true key to enlightement. Obviously, I was inclined to belief what the former said, because as far as I know humans life come to an end at death which explicitly implies that, life requires death. I'm however inclined to disbelieve what the latter said, because if life does not need death why do we[humans] die in the first place? Please what do you say in response?
Many thanks

"All life suffers death", is more to the point.

Paul the Apostle wrote:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1Corinthians 15:22)


All those who are "in Christ" are free of the curse of death, which disobedience has brought upon Creation.

Moses the Prophet wrote:
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.(Gen 2:16-17)


By faith Christian's acknowledge Christ as their Redeemer who has paid the price to set them free from the law of sin and death.

Paul the Apostle wrote:
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree:
(Galatians 3:13)


From Notes On The Bible by Albert Barnes:
The redemption of the body - The complete recovery of the body from death and corruption.

The particular and striking act of the adoption in the day of judgment will be the raising up of the body from the grave, and rendering it immortal and eternally blessed. The particular effects of the adoption in this world are on the soul.

The completion of it on the last day will be seen particularly in the body; and thus the entire man shall be admitted into the favor of God, and restored from all his sins and all the evil consequences of the fall. The apostle here speaks the language of every Christian.

The Christian has joys which the world does not know; but he has also sorrows; he sighs over his corruption; he is in the midst of calamity; he is going to the grave; and he looks forward to that complete deliverance, and to that elevated state, when, in the presence of an assembled universe, he shall be acknowledged as a child of God.

This elevated privilege gives to Christianity its high value; and the hope of being acknowledged in the presence of the universe as the child of God - the hope of the poorest and the humblest believer - is of infinitely mere value than the prospect of the most princely inheritance, or of the brightest crown that a monarch ever wore.


"For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." (Rom 8:22-23)



Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
Listening . . .
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 4:37:18 PM

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I just read this quote and, although it doesn't reflect an answer to the OP, I wanted to share. Beautiful and sad, a reminder I think.

"The great tragedy of life is not death, but what dies inside of us while we live." ~ Norman Cousins
Dreamy
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 3:22:27 AM

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Listening . . . wrote:
I just read this quote and, although it doesn't reflect an answer to the OP, I wanted to share. Beautiful and sad, a reminder I think.

"The great tragedy of life is not death, but what dies inside of us while we live." ~ Norman Cousins

The more I think about the title of this thread the more it occurs to me how very close it comes to encapsulating the gospel.

Jesus said:
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
(Mat 16:25)"


A disciple of Christ would be familiar with the New Testament references to the "old man", which is an expression used "to denote our sinful and corrupt nature; the passions and evil propensities that exist before the heart is renewed. It refers to the love of sin, the indulgence of sinful propensities, in opposition to the new disposition which exists after the soul is converted, and which is called “the new man.” " (ref. Alfred Barnes: Notes On The Bible.)


The concept of the old man being "crucified", "put to death", and "put off", personifies all that is corrupt, deceived, and exploited by fleshly desires in each of us, and portrays these propensities as no longer envigorated, but inoperative, powerless, and eventually annihilated by the Christ's finished work on the cross.

PART ONE:
Paul the Apostle wrote:

Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(Rom 6:3-7)


PART TWO:
Paul the Apostle wrote:

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God.
Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
(Rom 6:8-14)


I hope this goes some way to edify those who have an interest in this excellent topic.


Job 33:15 "In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, In slumberings upon the bed;" Theology 101 "If He doesn't know everything then He isn't God."
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 3:16:52 AM

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Joined: 10/4/2016
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Listening . . . wrote:
I just read this quote and, although it doesn't reflect an answer to the OP, I wanted to share. Beautiful and sad, a reminder I think.

"The great tragedy of life is not death, but what dies inside of us while we live." ~ Norman Cousins


Great, thanks for this quote, Listening.

The whole point of life is developing our souls and applying them to make the physical world better. Since in the physical world "complex systems decay" if let alone, this world requires constant maintenance and development / building / improving.
Strong and healthy body only buys a man/woman relatively more time to do that.
Ebenezer Son
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 3:05:18 PM
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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
One said life requires death.
The question is 'Does life require death?' "require' is not proper word. It should be 'Does life follow death?'.
The answer is 'yes'.
And why, its known to the one who gives life.
And who is He? There are many myths and theories but nobody knows the exact sequence.


Thank you everyone.
Your answer is unclear to me. Are you saying after after death is life?
Please elaborate.
Many thanks.

I know only one thing - that is that I know nothing.
Ebenezer Son
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2017 3:12:00 PM
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Joined: 5/23/2013
Posts: 679
Neurons: 3,215
mactoria wrote:
Ebenezer: thanks for posting this. As for life requiring death or not, as DragOnspeaker indicates, it's really a personal belief as to whether to agree or disagree I think. It also depends on how one interprets the statement, since it was in a movie it would be considered "literature" and as such leaves interpretation open to the listener/reader. The thing that caught my attention was the second part of the "not" side: "but love is the true key to enlightenment." That may be (or not, depending on your belief), but it seems like a non sequitur in the life/death discussion. Life requiring death or not, doesn't seem to be related to "love is the key of enlightenment." Just my reaction. Maybe one just had to see the movie to get the connection of the two different thought....


The wrath of Vajra--that is the title of the movie.

I know only one thing - that is that I know nothing.
Gotterfunke
Posted: Friday, April 21, 2017 9:41:46 AM
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Joined: 4/21/2017
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I think you are looking at this question from the wrong viewpoint, from a philosophical one, but life and death are purely biological questions. The first question is, what constitutes life. Is a mere cell life for you, or does it have to be a combination of many cells, that form a body?

Life doesn't require death, as in theory you could life forever. But in an ever changing universe and on a planet with evolutionary pressures shaping life, death is just a natural consequence. In biological terms, you are just a resource to be exploited by other beings. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's how it is.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Friday, April 21, 2017 12:48:34 PM

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Life is a sexually transmitted disease, enjoyable by fortuante humans, but certainly ends in death.
-Anonymous

Me Gathering Pebbles at The Seashore.-Aj
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