Just the opposite of what my mother used to say: we must keep "our little world" in order before we go and start a revolution. Or join the peace movement, because that was what triggered the discussion with my parents and made her say this.

I think both have to go hand in hand. "Society" has a great impact on how people are and vice versa.

Doesn't it depend on the degree attached to the word 'reform.? I tend to agree with GBS. Most of us can reform ourselves only peripherally given the amount of self-knowledge we must supress in order to keep sane. [Psychologcal essay needed here]. In other words, we can be objective about society - within our personal subjective limits - but much less so about ourselves. Moreover, some of our faults are caused directly by society's ills, e.g. correlation between lack of opportunity and - often - lack of meaningful education = limited capacity for objectivity. Therefore, the education system, say, needs reforming before ourselves. Finally, who is trying to 're-forming' society? Nelson Mandella or Adolf Hitler? Damn, I feel an essay coming on but my brain hurts!

GBS must have been a Democrat.

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"Supposin' I was to go to work and learn how to... to read writin'. Well, how'd I know that the feller that... that wrote the writin' was a writin' the writin' right? See it could be that he wrote the writin' all wrong. Here I'd be just a readin' wrong writin', don't ya see? You probably been doin' it your whole life, just a readin' wrong writin' and not even knowin‘ it." Festus

'We must reform society before we can reform ourselves'

I think the statement of George Bernard Shaw is considered too lightly.
What is interesting in it is, I think, the use of the modal and 'can'

As some of you have said, we are all part of a society and thus, all living in a codified world.
Rules are made to 'shape' human beings into citizens, say, into people who agree with the rules and and develop their vision of the world according to them.
Shaw statement emphasises the omnipresent tension between individual and Society.
To reform something is to go back to its roots and modify the basis in order to transform the whole thing. Governments, for instance, have to do it more or less regularly to adapt society to the needs of the time.
So, what does reform mean when applied to someone? To change someone's understanding of the world (his hierarchy of values for example)

Shaw tells us plainly that nobody cannot really derive from society, cannot be out of it. We have to come along with it.
To be really different, one have to modify the society. Otherwise, we are just a product of it.

Men can but live under rules to live in community.

Indeed, men do need rules to govern communities.

I am sorry if I have not made myself clear but, what I meant was that men could by no way change without society. I have not insisted on the importance of the verb "reform". In society, a reform is a strong change at a large scale. Even if individuals can kick-off social evolutions (in manners for instance), only society would be at the origin of a reform concerning people.

Such a topic could be seen as a play on words: Society can reform us (change us radically and at a large scale: millions of people)
Individuals can change us (modify us and at a small scale: thousands of people)

I just wanted to highlight this distinction. This is what is interesting in Shaw's statement.

But, once again I agree with you: we do need rules.

Once again, it seems I did not express what I intended to

"How horrible woud be to live in a society in which all people behave and think as a unit ."

Advertising businesses dream!

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Little drops of water~Little grains of sand~Make the mighty ocean~And the pleasant land~So the little moments~Humble though they be~Make the mighty ages ~Of Eternity/by Julia Fletcher Carney

To Fred: ....Keep dreaming folks, resistance is futile..........

Awful and dreadful pictures, DO ROBOTS HAVE HEART ? Do they Feel nature ? Are they loved for someone?
Many people will keep on dreaming and working for a better society and human beings harmonious and happy but free to choose in a kindness world. A loved Pope said "el amor es màs fuerte " LOVE is the strongest force for humanity. Intelligence and kindness will improve the Law. Men are the MASTERS not computer algorithms. Kisses.

You do not know what you are thinking. This is obvious to all.

Fred : Who are the all ? .If I registered only a month ago in this Forum . I don´t think I´m so famous for my thinking. Sorry , If I hurt your “ego” , but my intention is not to discuss with anybody, but to learn and expose what I think sincerely about a theme.
I´m not against you as a person but against what you think about robotic society as a unit , very comfortable for those people who don`t have a serious conmimtment with his environment and governments.”Let´s other people worry about that “ at the end we have dictatorial government. I ask myself ,so many illuminated an extraordinary human beings do we have through centuries and we can´t even achieve a christian world in which “love” be its essence,or the compassion of buddhism, or the harmony of taoism.
“You want a national government, benefactor to shape and control individuals for their betterment , we will behave and think like a unit.” The world has had that kind of government and only suffering war and disaster have been the result.” Latin America have had a lot of those “ benefactors “ . who have impoverished our rich land and slaved those who think different. I DON`T WANT THAT !
That ´s my thinking and I´m proud to express it , many human beings can´t.

Fred, Fred. “What words to say to a young lady !!! You will be assimilated !!!

You scared me ! Now I know ,what Sarah Connors felt when T-800 tried to kill her, in “Terminator “ film. Thanks God you´ll never find me. Please Fred, don`t promise anything, my mother taught me not to believe in men` promises only in deeds / facts. So, I free you from that commitmemt.
I`ll answer your message: “Missy” I`ve never heard or seen that word before, so I`ve had to look it up in my dictionary. Missy = (Inf ) used as familiar term to address to a young woman or girl.- You guess.- I´ll be twenty years old at the end of October. I´m Scorpio (Zodiac sign ) don´t be afraid. But I don´t know why I suspect that there is an incisive meaning not good for me. I don`t trust in you.
But Fred , “rogue upturns “ too much for me . I´m depressed – Rogue = A dishonest person, without principles. I swear for all my ancestors , I´m honest and assertive.
Upturns , may be, sometimes.
Fred, your message sounds like those of Castro, Chavez and others you know very well
What a pity ! No communication. But perhaps If you read this book of Patricia May a famous Chilean anthropologist “Todos los reinos palpitan en tí” Grijalbo edition, you might change just a little. I don`t know if it presses in English. It´s a scientific book
about evolution, the meaning of life , etc.-but the most important, she says that thoughts are living realites “ psi field”and the Noosfera a layer, above us where thoughts have its own field of energy.if we remind something the brain is only a decode of thoughts,they exist far from the existance of brain ,this is in short. Throw good thoughts, perhaps world might be a better place.

Oh! Post-Datum: What kind of specimen you are!!...... but I like extravagant and witty people. Only that ,I´ll never be assimilated !!! I swear ,cross to heaven.

I take GBS's quote with a grain of salt. GBS also wrote "Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you - their tastes may not be the same."