The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

My quotation of the day Options
TheParser
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 9:59:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
Calcifer kindly shares those beautiful characters with us, so I will share my collection of quotations.


No. 1

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out."

-- Cardinal Wolsey (1475 - 1530)
monamagda
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 10:58:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/4/2014
Posts: 4,898
Neurons: 3,081,692
Location: Bogotá, Bogota D.C., Colombia
TheParser wrote:
Calcifer kindly shares those beautiful characters with us, so I will share my collection of quotations.


No. 1

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out."

-- Cardinal Wolsey (1475 - 1530)



Perfect! Thank you!
Applause
Romany
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 12:32:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Wolsey, as one can see by the dates, did not speak Modern English. He was also an extremely erudite, cultured and educated man, so he would never have expressed himself as crudely as this.


George Will is a contemporary American. It was he who said this so, if you like it and want to use it, Monamagda, make sure you don't attribute to Wolsey but correctly assign it to Will.

Gary98
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 12:43:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/2014
Posts: 1,553
Neurons: 1,851,445
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Monamagda just quoted it.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 12:52:11 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Indeed he did, Gary. With the wrong attribution, which he also just quoted.
Dynamina
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:07:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2015
Posts: 112
Neurons: 2,585
Romany wrote:

Wolsey, as one can see by the dates, did not speak Modern English. He was also an extremely erudite, cultured and educated man, so he would never have expressed himself as crudely as this.
George Will is a contemporary American. It was he who said this so, if you like it and want to use it, Monamagda, make sure you don't attribute to Wolsey but correctly assign it to Will.


A quick google search attributes this quote to Wolsey and nobody else.
It is only fair to both Wolsey and Will (and Monamagda) to provide a reliable source for the alternate idea if there is one.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 1:37:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thomas_Wolsey

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Wolsey
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. Attributed to Cardinal Wolsey by columnist George Will, a line that he ...
Elvandil
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:15:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/5/2014
Posts: 291
Neurons: 116,072
Location: East Montpelier, Vermont, United States
Dynamina wrote:
Romany wrote:

Wolsey, as one can see by the dates, did not speak Modern English. He was also an extremely erudite, cultured and educated man, so he would never have expressed himself as crudely as this.
George Will is a contemporary American. It was he who said this so, if you like it and want to use it, Monamagda, make sure you don't attribute to Wolsey but correctly assign it to Will.


A quick google search attributes this quote to Wolsey and nobody else.
It is only fair to both Wolsey and Will (and Monamagda) to provide a reliable source for the alternate idea if there is one.


The diction in the quote is, as you say, far too crude for the Cardinal. However, he did, in fact, speak "modern" English, at least to the extent that Shakespeare did. After all, Shakespeare was born only 30 years after the Cardinal died, a long time from Chaucer.





(議思不の界世) pןɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo sɹǝpuoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝuo sı ǝpoɔıun
Dynamina
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:32:07 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2015
Posts: 112
Neurons: 2,585
Romany wrote:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Thomas_Wolsey

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Wolsey
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. Attributed to Cardinal Wolsey by columnist George Will, a line that he ...


Thanks for the quick reply. I am not doubting your idea. But the 2 sources you mentioned are really skimpy and would I hope never be accepted by any top university or whatever.
Your 2 sources are actually one and the same. One being a 2010 wiki talk page (ie. open for discussion) and the other the final wiki page. And this latter source even puts the quote attribute in a large ‘Disputed’ box.
Even more perplexing is your last line: …Attributed to Cardinal Wolsey by columnist George Will, a line that he ... Are you now attributing the quote to Wolsey?
What am I missing here?
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 3:49:33 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Dynamina,

As most people on TFD know, I am a University lecturer, historian and linguist, as well as being a writer. Linguistically, the English language broadly divides into Old English, Early Modern, Modern, and Contemporary. My periods of specialisation are the Early Modern (and, for the last 3 years now, the Regency.) Wolsey spoke Early Modern. The quote is Contemporary English. For that reason alone its attribution to a man who lived over 600 years ago is impossible.

Wolsey was one of the wiliest statesmen in English history. He was responsible for changing the entire course of English history - as well as its religion. He spoke/read Classical Latin and Greek, and his facility for language as well as his unparalleled Machiavellian mind were what enabled him to be the most powerful man in the land. In this context, the actual words of this quote are, indeed crude, unlettered and mundanely repetitious. Attributing them to him is impossible to the point of being insulting. The phrase "never, ever" and the repetition "very, very" leap out to underline this.

I use the word 'insulting' not in respect of anyone accepting the provenance of the quote, but of whoever thought it was possible that the "Wiley fox" (Wolsey's nickname) could have expressed himself thus in the first instance.

My views on Wiki - which is not permitted as a reputable source in Educational institutions - are also pretty well known. (It was also not accepted on TFD for the first few years). So I'm not about to defend whatever it says or lists, and I do apologise for shoving it in. However, as it seems now to be the only source many people consult, I thought it would carry weight amongst those who rely on it. The sheer impossibility (as briefly outlined above) of Wolsey having said this needs no further backing up to me or anyone who studies either History or the English language; so I didn't go any further than a source that I've seen many people accept before on TFD.

But hey, what any person chooses to believe is up to them. All one does as an educator is to give people choices between truth as we know it, and misconception. One doesn't dictate which they choose. As this is a Dictionary site and is consulted by people who are learning or interested in learning more, about the English language I've always done on here what I do with any student: present truths or alternative views to the best of my ability. What they do with this is entirely up to them.

There are people who still think that Marie Antoinette said "Let them eat cake" or that Churchill said ""If you’re going through hell, keep going."; that Washington said "I cannot tell a lie" or that Holmes said "Elementary, my dear Watson." All these people manage to go on living their lives quite happily and and successfully without it making a jot of difference to them. And so it is with this: to a lot of people it makes not a jot of difference who said it or when. All I wanted to do was ensure that the people who do care weren't misled.

ELVANDI: in linguistic terms Chaucer spoke/wrote Old English while Shakespeare spoke Early Modern. As I said, these are the broad categorisations; each of them, in turn, is then re-defined in terms of the age e.g. Elizabethan, Georgian, Regency, Edwardian etc.
TheParser
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 5:48:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 2 (all emphases are mine)


"The kindest word in all the world is the unkind word, unsaid."

-- author unknown
ithink140
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 6:28:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/4/2013
Posts: 2,454
Neurons: 17,922
Wolsey ‘…was also an extremely erudite, cultured and educated man’ and a hypocrite of the first order as well as a man of great greed and ambition. Who gives a fig for his erudition, education or so called culture. Better that he had been a decent man. Better that he had followed the humble path of the one he professed to be his master and saviour.


'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
Dynamina
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 12:05:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2015
Posts: 112
Neurons: 2,585
Romany wrote:

…I am a University lecturer, historian and linguist, as well as being a writer.


And I can add ‘and not very modest’. I am very impressed.
I know very little about linguistics. As I mentioned above, I do not doubt your theory. I am just interested in a reliable source. Not just from somebody cloaked behind an avatar.
I asked above for a source and you “shoved” in 2 wikipedia sources that you now admit are ‘…not permitted as a reputable source…’. I think this is called ‘flip-flopping’.

Romany wrote:

But hey, what any person chooses to believe is up to them. All one does as an educator is to give people choices between truth as we know it, and misconception. One doesn't dictate which they choose. As this is a Dictionary site and is consulted by people who are learning or interested in learning more, about the English language I've always done on here what I do with any student: present truths or alternative views to the best of my ability. What they do with this is entirely up to them.


This is a very noble idea not to ‘dictate’.
But you did instruct Monamagda to ‘… make sure you don't attribute to Wolsey but correctly assign it to Will’.
Back to square one. Come up with a ‘reputable’ source instead of using your academic achievements as ammo to bamboozle the issue.


Romany
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 2:13:52 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Dynamina -

You know what? Seriously?

You may think you are merely straight-talking, but unfortunately, to me, it sounds combative. And I simply do not want to argue.

As I have already said, above, a person can choose to believe whatever they want. If it matters to them they will seek their own facts; if it doesn't matter to them, why argue?

(Discussion, however is a whole other ballgame)



TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:26:16 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 3


"The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity."

-- Robert Anthony
Lotje1000
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:45:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 737
Neurons: 324,244
Location: Gent, Flanders, Belgium
I'd say conformity can be motivated by two things: 1) cowardice or 2) habit. Either you're too scared to break the norm, or you're so used to it all you hadn't even considered the option to break the norm.

Assuming that's true, the opposite of bravery is still cowardice.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 4:31:20 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Lotje -

Yes, I see your point. And to take it one further: - if the opposite of bravery were indeed conformity then all those hundreds of people, who dress the same, do the same things, eat the same food, have the same haircuts; would not be brave soldiers/police/ etc. they'd just be conforming? (And where is conformity more inculcated than in the armed forces?).
towan52
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:03:21 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/2012
Posts: 1,623
Neurons: 148,483
Location: Midland, Texas, United States
Even if one trawls through all the resources on the internet, there is no guarantee of accuracy. It is best to treat information garnered from online sources with a degree of scepticism and a pinch of salt (that could be thrown over the shoulder if one felt inclined).

Romany - George Wills is a semi-retired political commentator who used to be found festering on morning television here in the US. A humourless long streak of misery is the best description I can give (it must be true because I didn't get that info off the internet). Foundit probably likes him!Shhh

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint."
Kerry.P
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:26:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/7/2012
Posts: 2,651
Neurons: 12,980
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Dynamina wrote:
Romany wrote:

…I am a University lecturer, historian and linguist, as well as being a writer.


And I can add ‘and not very modest’. I am very impressed.
I know very little about linguistics. As I mentioned above, I do not doubt your theory. I am just interested in a reliable source. Not just from somebody cloaked behind an avatar.
I asked above for a source and you “shoved” in 2 wikipedia sources that you now admit are ‘…not permitted as a reputable source…’. I think this is called ‘flip-flopping’.


Maybe I'm being pedantic here (and I know I'm not the resident pedant - that title has been cliamed by others much more knowledgeable than I!) but, I read Romany's statements as a list of, well facts.
The list does not include any adjectives or other qualifications to modify the level or quality of these facts.

For example, compare the following statements:
1. I am an Australian and a technical writer.
2. I am a sun-bronzed, goddess-like Australian and a first-class, highly-paid technical writer.

Regarding sentence 1: Despite none of these facts being immediately verifiable they are not boasts; they are just simple statements of fact.

Regarding sentence 2: If you accept the simple facts as true, this sentence does contain embellishments that significantly qualify the categories of nationality and profession.

Although all the facts in sentence 2 could be true Liar , the critique of 'and not very modest' could be levelled at this sentence, but not, I believe, at sentence 1.

However, I have been wrong before (I won't go into unnecessary details here) and I am willing to accept comments pointing out any weakness in my argument. (Also spelling, grammar, syntax - whatever the hell you want to throw my way.)
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:26:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 4 (all emphases are mine)


"I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers."

-- Kahlil Gibran (1883 - 1931)
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 5:35:39 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 5.


"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."

-- Thomas Szasz (1920 - 2012), American psychiatrist
Romany
Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 2:20:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Kerry,

Thanks, mate. This is the second time I've been accused of boasting or making much of myself, merely by stating what it is I do.

However, the times I have mentioned the other strings to my bow - that I am also a painter, plasterer, brick-layer and wall-maker - nary a murmur has been heard.

Being a Dictionary/English forum it was, I've always felt, quite unremarkable that there used to be quite a lot of Academics/Educators/professionals, who always knew far more than I about SO many things. Yet, for some reason, I've never seen any of them, both former and current members, get accused of 'showing off' when they've mentioned what they do or what their field is.

Unless they were women.The reason so many of our female academics (Remember Ruth? Now SHE was one brilliant woman!) left was because of the flak they used to cop. It DOES get very tiresome after a while.

I just find it really curious that both the bitchslaps I've had have been from women. And both from America.

It would seem, then, that there is a very different concept towards Acadaemia in America: - there it's considered aggrandizing to admit to being part of acadaemia, it seems.

In Oz and UK as you know of course, it can be instant death: - "Yer wot? One o' them poncy lot? Useless bloody shower" or, at the very least "Chardy-sipping effetes in their ivory towers." While in China- where you can't even work as a filing clerk or in a shoe-shop without a Bachelors - it's a yawn and a "Yeah. Who isn't!".

And the woman thing? Well perhaps they are ardent feminists who don't want their sisters to buy into all that male hegemony and the artificially constructed paradigms which permeate throughout acadaemia's very structure, and which reek of patriarchy?Whistle

P.S. And thanks for recognizing why I considered it relevant.Anxious
Edited.
towan52
Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 3:28:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/2012
Posts: 1,623
Neurons: 148,483
Location: Midland, Texas, United States
Romany wrote:
Kerry,

Thanks, mate. This is the second time I've been accused of boasting or making much of myself, merely by stating what it is I do.

However, the times I have mentioned the other strings to my bow - that I am also a painter, plasterer, brick-layer and wall-maker - nary a murmur has been heard.

Being a Dictionary/English forum it was, I've always felt, quite unremarkable that there used to be quite a lot of Academics/Educators/professionals, who always knew far more than I about SO many things. Yet, for some reason, I've never seen any of them, both former and current members, get accused of 'showing off' when they've mentioned what they do or what their field is.

Unless they were women.The reason so many of our female academics (Remember Ruth? Now SHE was one brilliant woman!) left was because of the flak they used to cop. It DOES get very tiresome after a while.

I just find it really curious that both the bitchslaps I've had have been from women. And both from America.

It would seem, then, that there is a very different concept towards Acadaemia in America: - there it's considered aggrandizing to admit to being part of acadaemia, it seems.

In Oz and UK as you know of course, it can be instant death: - "Yer wot? One o' them poncy lot? Useless bloody shower" or, at the very least "Chardy-sipping effetes in their ivory towers." While in China- where you can't even work as a filing clerk or in a shoe-shop without a Bachelors - it's a yawn and a "Yeah. Who isn't!".

And the woman thing? Well perhaps they are ardent feminists who don't want their sisters to buy into all that male hegemony and the artificially constructed paradigms which permeate throughout acadaemia's very structure, and which reek of patriarchy?Whistle

P.S. And thanks for recognizing why I considered it relevant.Anxious
Edited.


Not very surprised about the nationality of the critics. Here, the term "brainiac" is given to intelligent people with a wide and worldly knowledge - and it's generally used as pejorative description. Ball-players and hunters are considered to be the role models here - and that's just for the gals! Whistle

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint."
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:34:26 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

I started this thread because I wanted to share my collection of quotations.

If you wish to leave a comment, it should be devoted to a particular quotation.

PLEASE do not post any comments about another poster's personality or character.

Let us keep the "Knowledge and Culture" forum a harmonious area.

(Many of us no longer read a certain other forum because it has become so full of anger and insults. Don't let such a misfortune happen to this forum.)
TheParser
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 7:43:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 6

"The boredom that a man feels when he is doing necessary though uninteresting work is as nothing in comparison with the boredom that he feels when he has nothing to do."

-- Bertrand Russell
Dynamina
Posted: Friday, October 21, 2016 2:53:11 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2015
Posts: 112
Neurons: 2,585
At last, a source:

Romany
Posted: Saturday, October 22, 2016 6:42:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 11,768
Neurons: 35,569
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom


Applause Applause Applause
TheParser
Posted: Saturday, October 22, 2016 6:56:23 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
Thank you, Dynamina, for that great contribution to this thread.


*****

No. 7


"She's able to see a rainbow where there hasn't been a storm."

-- Allan McTeer, father of actress Janet McTeer, commenting on her "vigor of mind."
TheParser
Posted: Sunday, October 23, 2016 7:16:54 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 8


"Whoever humiliates another person is considered as if he killed him."

-- attributed to a "Hebrew dictum."
TheParser
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 5:28:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 9


"It's so hard to forget pain, but it's even harder to remember sweetness. We have no scar to show for happiness."

-- Chuck Palahniuk
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 5:37:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 37,514
Neurons: 236,541
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland



In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
ithink140
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 10:57:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/4/2013
Posts: 2,454
Neurons: 17,922
'Boasters are often liarsLiar 'Anonymous

'I swam the English Channel at the age of six months'

'I was Prime Minister of my country before the age of two'.

'If you believe that you will believe anything.'Anonymous

'Take it with a large pinch of salt.'Corrupted English Idiom

'If I were to list all of my accomplishments then the list would stretch two times around the globeWhistle '




'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:31:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
Many thanks to those who are contributing interesting quotations, too.


*****

No. 10


"No matter what you say, your clothes say more."

-- Tom Kirby
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:05:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2012
Posts: 3,962
Neurons: 18,583
No. 11


"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

-- attributed to Maynard Keynes
NKM
Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:42:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 3,296
Neurons: 126,754
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
There are a considerable number of adjectives which I might use in describing Romany, but "immodest" is not one of them.

Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.