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The usage of 'out of' ['A out of B' - a way of visually describing a statistic, or ratio] Options
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2017 6:16:32 PM

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leonAzul wrote:
Audiendus wrote:

Distinctions such as "going out of", "getting a whole thing out of", "getting raw material out of" etc are not really categories of the phrase "out of". They depend on the wider context, particularly the meaning of the verb they relate to, e.g. "come", "take", "make". These various meanings are not intrinsic to the phrase "out of". There are only a small number of different basic meanings of "out of"; the ones I can think of are:

1. from within (e.g. we came out of the room; I chose the first one out of this set).
2. outside (e.g. I am out of the house; we are out of danger; he is out of his mind).
3. lacking, [having become] empty of (e.g. we are out of sugar; they have run out of oil).
4. for the sake of/motivated by (e.g. the one who kills out of anger and suspicion).

You only need to know these basic categories. The context will give the exact meaning.


I agree with you, yet would suggest that most of the time the single word "from" could be acceptable as a synonym for "out of".

Out of Nowhere



Thanks a lot, LeonAzul,
I think 'into' is also the opposite of 'out of'/from'.
I watched the woman come out of the house and get into a car.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2017 6:27:27 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
1- Make a problem out of it = make a problem from (the material) within it.
2- Get the best out of the BBC = get the best from (what is) within the BBC.
3- Write out of joy for the English language = write joy from(the material) for the English language.

Before leonAzul answers your latest questions, I will just mention the following:

"Write" in (3) above (unlike "make" and "get" in (1) and (2)) is an intransitive verb. "Write joy" does not make sense.


Thanks a lot, Audiendus,
Although it is out of the topic, I would ask why you only decided that 'write' in (3) is an intransitive verb. However, 'make' in (1) and 'get' in (2) are transitives. I think that 'write' can be used as 'transitive' or 'intransitive'.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2017 8:57:35 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
I think that 'write' can be used as 'transitive' or 'intransitive'.


Yes, but if it is transitive it has a direct object. There is no direct object in "Write out of joy for the English language".
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, December 04, 2017 4:39:12 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
I think that 'write' can be used as 'transitive' or 'intransitive'.


Yes, but if it is transitive it has a direct object. There is no direct object in "Write out of joy for the English language".

Thanks a lot,
But, I think we can rephrase it as "get" and "make" where "a problem" and "the best" are the direct objects of "made" and "get" in order.
I write joy out of for the English language = write joy from(the material) for the English language.

Isn't "joy" the direct object of "write" in either format?
I think "out of" isn't combined with "make", "get", or "write" to build a two-word verb. (Phrasal verbs).
I now start getting confused with "out of" following a verb, but it isn't paired with it as a phrasal verb, and "out of" which is combined with a verb as a phrasal verb.

Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, December 04, 2017 8:05:22 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
But, I think we can rephrase it as "get" and "make" where "a problem" and "the best" are the direct objects of "made" and "get" in order.

No, "I write out of joy" cannot be rephrased with "make" or "get". It does not mean the same as "I make joy" or "I get joy".

A cooperator wrote:
I write joy out of for the English language

This makes no sense. You cannot say "out of for". Also see my comment below, about "write joy".

A cooperator wrote:
= write joy from(the material) for the English language.

No - as I said before, "write joy" does not make sense (except perhaps in a poetic context, as leonAzul said). You can write a word, a text, an email, a book, etc - but you cannot "write joy".

A cooperator wrote:
Isn't "joy" the direct object of "write" in either format?

No. In "write out of joy", "joy" is the object of the compound preposition "out of".

A cooperator wrote:
I think "out of" isn't combined with "make", "get", or "write" to build a two-word verb. (Phrasal verbs).

You are correct there.

A cooperator wrote:
I now start getting confused with "out of" following a verb, but it isn't paired with it as a phrasal verb, and "out of" which is combined with a verb as a phrasal verb.

I - subject
write - intransitive verb
out of joy for the English language - adverbial phrase modifying "write"
out of - compound preposition
joy - object of "out of" (not object of "write")
for the English language - adjectival phrase modifying "joy"
for - preposition
the English language - object of "for".
A cooperator
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 5:22:39 PM

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Audiendus wrote:
Quote:
A cooperator wrote:
I think "out of" isn't combined with "make", "get", or "write" to build a two-word verb. (Phrasal verbs).

You are correct there.


Thanks a lot, Audiendus,
But, you think that "out of" can always be compound preposition? Or "out of" can be a part of a phrasal verb, such as "get out of my house"- I only remember this. If it could be a part of a phrasal verb, then how to know if "out of" is a part of a phrasal verb or it is compound preposition as a standalone?


Whoever doesn't own what he promises to those who do not deserve must not promise it.
Audiendus
Posted: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 7:52:48 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
But, you think that "out of" can always be compound preposition? Or "out of" can be a part of a phrasal verb, such as "get out of my house"- I only remember this. If it could be a part of a phrasal verb, then how to know if "out of" is a part of a phrasal verb or it is compound preposition as a standalone?

You do not need to decide in each case whether "out of" is part of a phrasal verb or not. It makes no practical difference.

In some cases, there is no clear distinction between "out of" as a stand-alone compound preposition or as part of a phrasal verb. For example, "get out of my house" can be analysed in either of the following ways:

get - simple verb (= to go, to complete a movement, to reach a destination)
out of - compound preposition
my house - object of "out of"

or

get out of - phrasal verb (= to exit)
my house - object of "get out of"
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