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Should gays kiss in public? Options
eraigames
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 7:10:06 PM
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progpen wrote:
Take a quick look through the thread and you will see that Marco is the only one throwing personal insults like candy from a parade float.


While I do not share Marco's fear that Muslim immigrants will turn Belgium into a theocracy, I did not notice him/her making any personal insults in this thread. Marco did make a snide comment that once the Muslim community in Belgium stages a successful coup, the ultraconservative among them will form a government which will use violence to silence or remove progressives including Lotje.

That is not a personal attack against Lotje's character unless you consider placing her in the "progressive" camp to be offensive, but I think that she would embrace such a characterization.
eraigames
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 7:33:39 PM
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Lotje1000 wrote:
eraigames wrote:
Even if we all accept that kissing in public is allowed, do we really want anyone and everyone to be allowed to do it?

Yes, pretty much. So long as other laws are respected (consent, no public nudity etc.), I see no reason to deny some members of the public their rights.
What's the alternative? We'd deny someone a basic right to express their love, just because some of us get a little uncomfortable?


Also to Progpen-


I don't think that you quite understand what I meant. For example, I don't think that any of us would allow an adult to tongue kiss a child (whether done in public or in private). I certainly would not condone such a thing, but I must admit that that is, in itself, an arbitrary decision that many (maybe most) modern societies have made. Some cultures may not feel the same way, and (probably) all of our ancestors bred at a much younger age up until the modern era.

Allowing straight but not homosexual couples to kiss in public is also an arbitrary distinction. That said, if we accept the theory of social evolution, perhaps we should just stop fighting it and let homosexual couples kiss in public then just wait to see if society implodes or not. I'm betting that it will have a negligible effect if any effect.
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 8:19:49 PM

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progpen wrote:
So, even though I'm not gay, I do thank you from the bottom of my heart for calling me gay.

You're very welcome! But I still think you're gay...

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
Lotje1000
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 2:45:37 AM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
progpen wrote:
So, even though I'm not gay, I do thank you from the bottom of my heart for calling me gay.

You're very welcome! But I still think you're gay...


They often call this wishful thinking.
Lotje1000
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 4:17:18 AM

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eraigames wrote:
For example, I don't think that any of us would allow an adult to tongue kiss a child (whether done in public or in private). I certainly would not condone such a thing, but I must admit that that is, in itself, an arbitrary decision that many (maybe most) modern societies have made.


The main issue with this scenario is not so much that an adult kissing a child makes us uncomfortable. The reason it's illegal is because a child is not old enough to consent to this. It might claim it is or the adult might make the claim, but it's scientifically proven that a child cannot make these kinds of decisions. (Where the line for age of consent should be drawn is a different tricky matter.)

This does not apply to people of the same gender kissing in public. Sure, it might make people feel uncomfortable, but as long as they're two consenting adults, it's none of anyone's business.
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 9:13:11 AM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
Sure, it might make people feel uncomfortable, but as long as they're two consenting adults, it's none of anyone's business.

Oh, but that's where you're wrong, Monsieur Lotje... What you do in public is everyone's business. That's what society is.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
Lotje1000
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 9:17:29 AM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
Oh, but that's where you're wrong, Monsieur Lotje... What you do in public is everyone's business. That's what a society is.


It makes me uncomfortable that you're talking like this in public. That doesn't, however, make me claim you should be lashed.
CatCat
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 1:47:51 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Fascinating. If you've just tuned in, PC fans, Marco Polo has thus far endured the gauntlet of Progressive invective, erect, undamaged, and unbowed. What will they throw at him next?...stay tuned...



Such a brave man, trolling the internet under a pseudonym, insulting minorities. My hero.
CatCat
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 1:49:05 PM

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eraigames wrote:
...I did not notice him/her making any personal insults in this thread...


After a quick search, I think perhaps you should look a little closer, eraigames. Here are just a couple of direct quotes from the great intellectual debater, Marco Polo 1:

"One final question for you, OnTheVerge... On the verge of what? ...A mental lapse? ...A psychotic episode, perhaps?"

"and that, Tunaafi, is the ranting of a delusional paranoiac. It could be highly beneficial for you to learn the voice of reason, friend."

Sounds personal to me.
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 2:00:07 PM

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CatCat wrote:
[quoting MP]"and that, Tunaafi, is the ranting of a delusional paranoiac. It could be highly beneficial for you to learn the voice of reason, friend."


It's not the 'delusional paranoiac' that bothers me; it's the 'friend'!

Whistle
eraigames
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 2:02:08 PM
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Lotje1000 wrote:
The main issue with this scenario is not so much that an adult kissing a child makes us uncomfortable. The reason it's illegal is because a child is not old enough to consent to this. It might claim it is or the adult might make the claim, but it's scientifically proven that a child cannot make these kinds of decisions. (Where the line for age of consent should be drawn is a different tricky matter.)

This does not apply to people of the same gender kissing in public. Sure, it might make people feel uncomfortable, but as long as they're two consenting adults, it's none of anyone's business.



While there may be a rationale for drawing a line at *some* age, I think that we all need to recognize that it is a line that society has drawn. As for where exactly the line is drawn, I would saw that it is somewhat arbitrary given our history as a species. In every culture that I know of, humans typically reproduced at a MUCH younger age (12-16) than what is now acceptable. Nowadays most of us seem to agree that this sort of thing should happen much later, but that is probably just a change in social mores and not a scientific necessity since our species clearly survived just fine before the modern era.

I don't see how deciding which gender/sex combinations get to kiss in public is that much more arbitrary. Yes we can argue that the age distinction is designed to protect kids, but then conservatives would argue that disallowing homosexuals to kiss in public also protects kids. I'd argue that those people are letting their religion cloud their judgment, but a similar argument could be made regarding the age distinction. Speaking of arbitrariness, American society's enforcement of the age distinction is rather suspect given that two 14 year olds will be allowed to make out in public but an 18 year old who makes out with a 17 year old will go to jail for 15 years which, in most states, is a MUCH harsher sentence than a rapist would get.
CatCat
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 2:07:03 PM

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tunaafi wrote:
CatCat wrote:
[quoting MP]"and that, Tunaafi, is the ranting of a delusional paranoiac. It could be highly beneficial for you to learn the voice of reason, friend."


It's not the 'delusional paranoiac' that bothers me; it's the 'friend'!

Whistle


Haha, of course. I fully empathise.
Lotje1000
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 2:19:44 PM

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eraigames wrote:
Yes we can argue that the age distinction is designed to protect kids, but then conservatives would argue that disallowing homosexuals to kiss in public also protects kids.


In the first example, the kid is the victim because they're being forced into a kiss. In the second, they're just bystanders. It doesn't hurt them any more than watching heterosexual couples kiss (ewww cooties!).

I already said that the age distinction is a difficult question. Still, consent is a clearer line to draw than "it makes me uncomfortable to watch two arbitrary people kiss".
eraigames
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 5:18:26 PM
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Lotje1000 wrote:
eraigames wrote:
Yes we can argue that the age distinction is designed to protect kids, but then conservatives would argue that disallowing homosexuals to kiss in public also protects kids.


In the first example, the kid is the victim because they're being forced into a kiss. In the second, they're just bystanders. It doesn't hurt them any more than watching heterosexual couples kiss (ewww cooties!).

I already said that the age distinction is a difficult question. Still, consent is a clearer line to draw than "it makes me uncomfortable to watch two arbitrary people kiss".


Ha, cooties!

Ahem, [putting my grown-up hat back on] as someone who works in law, I can, with no small measure of confidence, state that the age question and consent question ARE the same thing. This is an example of legal scholars and politicians deciding that people under a certain age are incapable of giving consent regardless of whether they actually are or are not. The law was created in such a fashion purely out of a desire for judicial efficiency (i.e. a large number of such cases were anticipated so it was deemed too costly to judge the merits of each case).

Ultimately it strikes me as odd that a lot of people are getting so up in arms about this one distinction (homosexual kissing) while most people remain unopposed to so many other arbitrary distinctions.

This reminds me of a show which I saw a brief clip of. Some guy from the American Revolution somehow survived until modern times (maybe he was a vampire??) and paired up with a modern detective to solve crimes, because American television is that silly I guess. Anyway, the clip I saw featured the duo walking past a coffee shop where they saw two presumably homosexual men holding hands. The old guy displayed revulsion and the modern detective, assuming that it was in response to the public display of affection by two homosexuals, moved to scold her partner only for her partner to reply that he was dumbfounded that someone would have the audacity to wear a hat indoors.
progpen
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 5:37:22 PM

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CatCat wrote:
Is Marco Polo 1 and his archaic and backward ideas really worth wasting this much time and space on? He is clearly in the minority and nothing intelligent people say will brighten such a dimly-lit mind. TFD's quote yesterday was from Charlotte Bronte, "Misery generates hate". I guess that explains much of it.


Applause Applause Applause

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 10:25:19 PM

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progpen wrote:
TFD's quote yesterday was from Charlotte Bronte, "Misery generates hate". I guess that explains much of it.

It certainly does... especially the hate we see coming from leftist liberal socialists, e.g. the beautiful peace-loving intellectuals at Costa Mesa last week. See Youtube for an hour-long demonstration of liberals' love of peace. The hate-mongering leftists on this thread are no different.



Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
Lotje1000
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:15:13 AM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
progpen wrote:
TFD's quote yesterday was from Charlotte Bronte, "Misery generates hate". I guess that explains much of it.

It certainly does... especially the hate we see coming from leftist liberal socialists, e.g. the beautiful peace-loving intellectuals at Costa Mesa last week. See Youtube for an hour-long demonstration of liberals' love of peace. The hate-mongering leftists on this thread are no different.



Whereas you only deal in repulsion and public lashings. That's much better.
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 4:46:27 AM

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Hey - I'm a delusional paranoiac and a hate-mongering leftist. What next I wonder?
progpen
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 7:43:11 AM

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We are also either terrorists or terrorist lovers.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:07:38 AM

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And I lack proficient reading skills. Have we forgotten anything else ? I am updating my cv, and I'd hate to miss any important points. You can add 'suspected gay' to yours, but I'm afraid I can't - yet.
March Hare
Posted: Friday, May 06, 2016 4:47:26 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
And I lack proficient reading skills. Have we forgotten anything else ? I am updating my cv, and I'd hate to miss any important points. You can add 'suspected gay' to yours, but I'm afraid I can't - yet.


Actually, remember this post?

Marco Polo 1 wrote:
Tunaafi... stand in front of my home while making out with your boyfriend in front of my children and I'll truly teach you the voice of reason.


I wonder if he doesn't simply think everyone is gay, unless proven otherwise through homophobic statements (although, ironically, it has already been pointed out that those are often the hallmark of the closet homosexual).
Tovarish
Posted: Friday, May 06, 2016 6:27:34 AM

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'erect, undamaged and unbowed', now you have my attention.

I'd like to see that.
TheParser
Posted: Friday, May 06, 2016 8:00:29 AM
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tunaafi wrote:
I'm a hate-mongering leftist.



As your #2 victim, I thank you, sir, for your frank admission (finally!).


*****

Your No. 1 victim, of course, was that poor guy in the "Grammar" forum whom you carved up many months ago.

He had no idea that he would be running into someone like you.



Have a great day, my friend.































Maryam Dad
Posted: Friday, May 06, 2016 9:11:12 AM

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I hope you two will be BFF Boo hoo!



Kindness is a mark of faith. and whoever is not kind has no faith.
progpen
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 8:35:35 AM

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"Hate mongering leftist." = Anyone who disagrees with a hate mongering conservative.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Lotje1000
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 8:51:37 AM

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progpen wrote:
"Hate mongering leftist." = Anyone who disagrees with a hate mongering conservative.


The hate mongering still confuses me. Objecting to someone hating gays enough to publicly lash them is suddenly hate mongering?
progpen
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 8:55:21 AM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
progpen wrote:
"Hate mongering leftist." = Anyone who disagrees with a hate mongering conservative.


The hate mongering still confuses me. Objecting to someone hating gays enough to publicly lash them is suddenly hate mongering?


I don't think it was ever supposed to make sense. It sounds good on Fox News, so that's what counts.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Lotje1000
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 8:58:47 AM

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Maybe we're hate mongering because we make them hate us more?
progpen
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 9:00:20 AM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
Maybe we're hate mongering because we make them hate us more?


Oh, that's bang on.Applause

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
tunaafi
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2016 2:33:09 PM

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Maryam Dad wrote:
I hope you two will be BFF Boo hoo!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQGVYliLlQc
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2016 3:34:23 PM

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Haha, I step out awhile and come back to find Tunaafi and his fellow liberal lulus fellating each other and congratulating themselves on their intolerance and lack of morals.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
FounDit
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2016 3:39:39 PM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
Haha, I step out for awhile and come back to find Tunaafi and all of his liberal buddies fellating each other and congratulating themselves on their intolerance and lack of morals.


Uh, oh. Now you'll be taken to task for failing to use gamahuche so as to include males and females...tsk, tsk,...Shame on you

A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
CatCat
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2016 5:24:34 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Marco Polo 1 wrote:
Haha, I step out for awhile and come back to find Tunaafi and all of his liberal buddies fellating each other and congratulating themselves on their intolerance and lack of morals.


Uh, oh. Now you'll be taken to task for failing to use gamahuche so as to include males and females...tsk, tsk,...Shame on you


The two of you are clearly into mathematics. You add antagonism, subtract goodwill, divide people, and multiply ignorance.
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2016 5:51:53 PM

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Oh my! Isn't that WussWuss so clever and witty? I'll bet he's a poet.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 09, 2016 7:51:14 PM

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Marco, your mommy must be so proud. Maybe one day you will even move out of her basement.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ― Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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