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Should transgender people choose ANY restroom? Options
TheParser
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:05:19 AM
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The dictionary defines a transgender person as, for example, a person who was born a male but considers himself to be a female.

Such persons may feel more comfortable using a women's restroom (toilet) or a women's locker room (where there are showers).

Some American cities or states have passed laws that permit this option.
Some American cities or states have passed laws that prohibit this option.

Proponents of this option say that any kind of discrimination is wrong.
Opponents of this option say that it is not discrimination to require people to use the restroom or locker room that corresponds to a person's gender at birth.

Many people feel that this issue will have to be eventually settled by the Supreme Court.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:52:51 AM
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Well it's not exactly a conundrum that has turned the rest of the world upside down. We've sorted it: so I guess you guys will do so too, in the end.
redgriffin
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 12:12:23 PM

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I believe that nature is not perfect and it can make mistakes too. If a person believes that they are a different sex then they are Identified as by the world that the have the same rights as that sex including the use of a specific restroom. I do look forward to a day when we don't have these absurd divisions and we can do away with Men's and Women's Restrooms, Locker Rooms and even separate sleeping accommodations in the military.
hedy mmm
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 12:19:21 PM

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I had a 'transgender' student 40 years ago...he looked and dressed like a woman (a very pretty one at that) he would use the ladies room. The students reported it to the President of the school...the President summoned me to his office, (I was also newly appointed Director of Student Services), He asked if he/she should continue to use the ladies room....my response was "She p___ standing up", thus, she was allowed to use the faculty bathroom....we sorted it out, case closed.

As Romany states, ".....it's not exactly a conundrum for sure".......

To respond to redgriffin...God makes no mistakes....He is perfect


"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 12:25:56 PM

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Well, I would like to use the ladies' shower - there's more space for dressing than in the men's one.

Perhaps I should scream "discrimination" if I'm not allowed to.

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
progpen
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 12:27:44 PM

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Yup, another non-issue. North Carolina is the only state that has decided to make themselves an international disgrace, but the push back has been sufficient to even have them thinking twice about the return on investment of their gamble.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
hedy mmm
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:28:44 PM

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DragOnspeaker wrote:
Well, I would like to use the ladies' shower - there's more space for dressing than in the men's one.

Perhaps I should scream "discrimination" if I'm not allowed to.

I agree...we should scream "discrimination", your gender SHOULD have bigger shower/dressing rooms AND my gender SHOULD have bigger pay checks (remove the glass ceiling),

but alas, it ain't gonna' happen......Brick wall

"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:31:38 PM

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No waiting in lines at the men's! Dancing Dancing Dancing Nearly always a line-up at the women's. The men have fewer stalls, too! And we have no urinals. No equality here for either sex. lol Whistle

I've used the men's the odd time when no men were around and the women's was tied up. Imagine! Whistle

Why all the gay and transgender interest lately, anyhow? We seem to be talking about sex (or politics) here a lot!

ETA - Hedy, you posted while I wrote. Good answer..

A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes there is no virtue but on his own side. Addison
boneyfriend
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:34:24 PM

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Loved Hedy's answer to this. Applause

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. Ben Williams
hedy mmm
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:58:56 PM

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Hope123, we are on the same wavelength...if I have to go to the 'John' (yes, I still call it that)., and the ladies room is occupied, I go to the men's room...so, I CAN imagine, Whistle guess bright minds think alike...better embarresed than standing.in a puddle...(maybe TMI?)

Thanks boneyfriend and Are You?
Think

"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:07:48 PM

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Hell no!

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:24:05 PM

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I'm glad we're all in agreement then! Whistle

Hey boneyfriend - you got rid of the boney_friend alias, then! Dancing Dancing

Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
Allana
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 3:08:19 PM

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I am already uncomfortable with the fact that my local council thinks it is acceptable to have men cleaning the ladies loos (the few that have not yet been turned into restaurants). I don't think I could handle having men use them as well.
This has nothing to do with right, wrong or indifferent. It is merely my personal comfort levels. I just want a reasonable degree of privacy.



Don't be afraid to be wrong. You learn more. (Me)
hedy mmm
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 6:42:41 PM

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OK, I know I don't participate much on the forum, (don't have the time), however, did I miss something? Marco Polo 1 wrote, "Hell no!". Does this have anything to do with my response, or this thread? Think

I was waiting for boneyfriend to ask me what did I mean by 'Are You?'
What I meant was "Are you a 'Boney' friend"...meaning, are you slim...bony... I was trying to be funny...sorry, I guess I won't quit my day job. Whistle



"God graced us with today....don't waste it." hedy
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Saturday, March 26, 2016 8:54:31 PM

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hedy mmm wrote:
OK, I know I don't participate much on the forum, (don't have the time), however, did I miss something? Marco Polo 1 wrote, "Hell no!". Does this have anything to do with my response, or this thread? Think


No, Hedy, I apologize if you were offended by my post. I wasn't referring to you, I was simply replying briefly and emphatically to the OP's question. I don't believe in "transgenders," much less their right to use whichever facilities they choose.

I understand some transgendered people are actually born with indistinguishable gender. I'm unconcerned with those legitimate cases. However, some seem to accept that anyone who decides they don't like their gender are entitled to switch, e.g. Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner. That guy doesn't need a sex change... he needs a mental exam.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:05:57 AM

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Transgender people have used public bathrooms millions of times all over the world every single day and no one notices. You all have most likely used public restrooms with transgender people more than once and you never even knew it.

If you are a female, do you check under stall doors to make sure they don't have any extra equipment?

If you are a male, do you check under the stall doors to make sure they do have the extra equipment? Do you check out the others standing at the urinals to make sure they aren't faking it?


Non issue people. Quite simply a distraction to keep people from focusing on the discrimination that transgender and LGBTQ people experience every day.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 5:59:14 AM

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progpen wrote:
Non issue people.

Applause
Lotje1000
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 1:57:39 PM

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I think a lot of our gender-related issues would disappear if we stopped being so binary about it. Can't we just create one bathroom for everyone?

On that note, maybe we should stop being binary with regards to clothes, too. Are feet so different that I shouldn't be allowed to shop in the men's shoe section?
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 2:07:57 PM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
Are feet so different that I shouldn't be allowed to shop in the men's shoe section?

There's nothing to stop you shopping there if you want to.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 3:25:21 PM

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Lotje,

Single room unis are fine.

But sorry men, I don't even like watching men with their backs to the camera during 'urinal' scenes on TV. Would men even be able to function? If you eliminate the urinals the men would have line ups too. And if they go into a stall and 'spray' standing up...

There are good reasons why we have separate facilities. Dancing

A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes there is no virtue but on his own side. Addison
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 5:01:44 PM

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progpen wrote:


Non issue people. Quite simply a distraction to keep people from focusing on the discrimination that transgender and LGBTQ people experience every day.


Well, Progpen, it may not be an issue where you're from. Minnesotans aren't especially noted for sound judgment... After all, it was Minnesotans who elected the ex-wrestler, Jesse Ventura, as their governor, and the buffoon, Al "because I'm good enough..." Franken, as their state Senator. One grave mistake may be overlooked as a lapse in judgment, but two? Well, that's an indication that all is not well in the good state of Minnesota, my friend. But, as I was saying, to many people, in many states, this is an issue.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 5:24:02 PM

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Marco, I do feel sorry for you. Sincerely. However, the rest of the country will not let your fear and malice dictate how LGBTQ people should be treated. Your fear and malice are your own.


Oh, and I almost forgot:
Happy Easter Marco!

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 5:41:03 PM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
Minnesotans aren't especially noted for sound judgment.


So. no prejudice there, then. We know we are in for sound, reasoned, logical points.
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:13:17 PM

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tunaafi wrote:


So. no prejudice there, then. We know we are in for sound, reasoned, logical points.


Yes, sound, reasoned, logical points... but then, one man's logic is another man's absurdity, and one man's reason is another man's madness. By the way, such a pretty blue font! Are you an artist, by profession, perhaps?

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:16:08 PM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
tunaafi wrote:


So. no prejudice there, then. We know we are in for sound, reasoned, logical points.


Yes, sound, reasoned, logical points...


Waiting with bated breath Marco. Please proceed.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:21:00 PM

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progpen wrote:
Marco, I do feel sorry for you. Sincerely. However, the rest of the country will not let your fear and malice dictate how LGBTQ people should be treated. Your fear and malice are your own.

Oh, and I almost forgot:
Happy Easter Marco!


Please, don't feel sorry for me... I have neither fear nor malice. I really don't think asking mentally ill people to use the facilities specified for the natural gender of a person qualifies as "dictating." Everyone has rules to follow in a society.

By the way, thank you, Prog... Happy Easter to you too!

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
progpen
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:27:23 PM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
progpen wrote:
Marco, I do feel sorry for you. Sincerely. However, the rest of the country will not let your fear and malice dictate how LGBTQ people should be treated. Your fear and malice are your own.

Oh, and I almost forgot:
Happy Easter Marco!


Please, don't feel sorry for me... I have neither fear nor malice. I really don't think asking mentally ill people to use the facilities specified for the natural gender of a person qualifies as "dictating." Everyone has rules to follow in a society.

By the way, thank you, Prog... Happy Easter to you too!


And thank you Marco. I do appreciate it when others make my points for me. Saves me so much trouble during debates.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Marco Polo 1
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:53:41 PM

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You're very welcome, Prog! And by the way, people do not turn off their "logic circuits" at the word socialism, they turn off their hearing... because most people are learned enough to know that socialism entails more force and less freedom. Of course, people from Minnesota would not be expected to understand that, but, rather than getting into a lengthy dialogue, you should probably go back to watching your Conspiracy Theory reruns.

Every Socialist human being is a moderate moron. ---Marco Polo
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2016 7:15:54 PM

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Marco Polo 1 wrote:
You're very welcome, Prog! And by the way, people do not turn off their "logic circuits" at the word socialism, they turn off their hearing... because most people are learned enough to know that socialism entails more force and less freedom. Of course, people from Minnesota would not be expected to understand that, but, rather than getting into a lengthy dialogue, you should probably go back to watching your Conspiracy Theory reruns.



Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you

A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes there is no virtue but on his own side. Addison
Lotje1000
Posted: Monday, March 28, 2016 4:52:12 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
But sorry men, I don't even like watching men with their backs to the camera during 'urinal' scenes on TV. Would men even be able to function?
Arguably, your discomfort probably comes from there being a binary system and you're not used to seeing them pee. And them hypothetically not being able to function would be down to habit as well.

And if they go into a stall and 'spray' standing up...
They could, you know, sit down...? Also, there's enough gross women's bathrooms with urine on the seat, because some women don't want to sit down on 'dirty' toilet seats while they go about their business.

There are good reasons why we have separate facilities. Dancing
I genuinely don't see them, outside of our habit with the way things are now. Initial discomfort is normal when something changes.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, March 28, 2016 8:11:05 AM

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To each his own in public, Lotje. Been married for 54 years and had a son and a brother. Have seen men and boys urinate once or twice. I wouldn't like to watch women with open stalls either. Some things are meant to be private. (Never been to France.)

Children use the washrooms too. And then there is the problem of perverts...

As for the OP, it is a non issue as has been mentioned. Govt should stay out of bedrooms and washrooms and the rights of either sex to do what they want with their own bodies, including with reproduction. It is none of their business.

If more people minded their own business, we'd have fewer problems in the world. (Not that I've never said that before. Whistle )

A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes there is no virtue but on his own side. Addison
MelissaMe
Posted: Saturday, April 2, 2016 11:06:55 AM

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Hope123 wrote:


If more people minded their own business, we'd have fewer problems in the world. (Not that I've never said that before. Whistle )


Applause Yeah, verily!!! Applause

I dislike anyone micturating on my toilet seat, no matter what their gender! Sick

This is my only now.
eraigames
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2016 4:10:41 PM
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Firstly, there is a difficulty in determining whether someone has a legitimate transgender issue or not. As far as restrooms are concerned, allowing everyone to use a single type of restroom may not be much of a problem most of the time, but it may occasionally become a problem as it did in the following example:


There was a guy recently who was convicted of -among many other things- several counts of rape, assault, battery, and murder of women. He was sent to prison and has been there for some time. Recently, he claimed that he was/is transgender (he thinks that he is a woman) and that, therefore, he should be A) transferred to a women's prison, B) allowed to bathe and relieve himself with women, and C) be given a sex-change operation which would be payed for with public funds.


I doubt that society will ever know if the guy truly thinks that he is a woman or not, but it seems quite a convenient claim to make. I do recall reading somewhere that the guy has been beat up quite a bit in his current prison which further casts doubt on the truthfulness of his recent "revelation".

Given the way the law works in this country, the state government (or the Federal Government if it chimes in) could set a precedent if it gives in to any of this guy's demands. Imagine how many convicts would just love to get into a women's prison for nefarious reasons. That could cause a lot of trouble for the government since it is impossible to know whether someone is lying about this kind of thing or not. Say that the government does cave and gives the guy what he wants. The government may be responsible if the dude strangles a woman (again). Of course there are plenty of overly politically correct people lining up to lambaste the government if it doesn't give into the guy's demands so society is between a rock and a hard place.
towan52
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2016 4:45:57 PM

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This thread is beginning to wash me off - I really don't give a shower - it's not that important! Whistle

"Today I was a hero. I rescued some beer that was trapped in a bottle"
progpen
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2016 8:24:30 PM

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@eraigames I say give him the sex change on our dime and that will save everyone lots of consternation. If we can be forced to pay for organized religion, wars for oil and for corporate handouts, I think we can afford to give every person in the country a sex change (everyone who wants one).

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
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