The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

persimmon Options
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:04:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 999
Neurons: 313,060
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
They say it is an American word. But the fruit should have been known to the English BCC. My question is if there's any BCC word for it.



აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:39:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/3/2014
Posts: 4,420
Neurons: 53,312
Location: Karlín, Praha, Czech Republic
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1 wrote:
They say


Who are 'they'? If we want to speak of this fruit in BrE, we call it persimmon.
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:49:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 999
Neurons: 313,060
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
tunaafi wrote:
Who are 'they'?

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/persimmon

Quote:
[C17: of Algonquian origin; related to Delaware pasĭmĕnan dried fruit]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon

Quote:
The word persimmon itself is derived from putchamin, pasiminan, or pessamin, from Powhatan, an Algonquian language of the eastern United States, meaning "a dry fruit".

tunaafi wrote:
If we want to speak of this fruit in BrE, we call it persimmon.

The question is what you called it Before Christopher Columbus.



აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:32:21 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 12,847
Neurons: 39,161
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Xap - it's unlikely that we called it anything.

Persimmons are native to China and Japan, and, obviously, parts of the Americas. They grow in temperate to tropical climates. Unlike potatoes and corn seeds or cuttings would not have grown in the UKs cold temperatures.

Hence there was no name for them in English, as the English didn't know of their existence.
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:57:51 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 999
Neurons: 313,060
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
Romany wrote:
Hence there was no name for them in English, as the English didn't know of their existence.

Someone told me the English have used samovars since 'the beginnings of trade on the Silk Road'.

In Russian we use the word 'хурма', the same word is used in Georgian - 'ხურმა'. It is of Persian origin. And it grows in Georgia. :)



აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:27:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,761
Neurons: 63,007
you can move technology, ideas, and goods such as silk and precious stones along the silk road or any trading route. Fruit, not so much. Gets a bit rotten and stinky somewhere around Samarkand!Silenced
And not of high enough value to be worth the transport costs.
And nobody bothered to (or maybe was allowed to!) take some seedlings and wait years for them to grow, with no guaranteed market that anybody would want them!

You take the word from the people who make them (eg putchamin) or you invent your own word, from what you know. In Icelandic it is döðluplóma - date plum. (Neither of which grow in Iceland, but you can grow soft fruit in Norway, and there was trade with places they were grown, like North Africa, from a long way back.)
In England I believe Sharon fruit are more common, which I believe is the 'easy-eater' version of the persimmon?
EPT31
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:38:54 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/24/2016
Posts: 41
Neurons: 71,371
Location: Toulouse, Midi-Pyrenees, France
According to Wikipedia it would be date-plum in English too, for the sole variety of persimmon coming from south-east Europe:
Quote:
Diospyros lotus (date-plum)

Date-plum (Diospyros lotus), also known as lotus persimmon, is native to southwest Asia and southeast Europe. It was known to the ancient Greeks as "the fruit of the gods" and often referred to as "nature's candy". Its English name probably derives from Persian Khormaloo خرمالو literally "date-plum", referring to the taste of this fruit, which is reminiscent of both plums and dates.


Russian "Khurma" is indeed related to "Khormaloo". (I can't read the Georgian alphabet.)

[EDIT]By the way, TFD redirects "Date-plum" to "persimmon"
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:59:18 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 999
Neurons: 313,060
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
thar wrote:
In Icelandic it is döðluplóma - date plum.

EPT31 wrote:
According to Wikipedia it would be date-plum in English too, for the sole variety of persimmon coming from south-east Europe:
Quote:
Diospyros lotus (date-plum)

Thanks to both of you. I somehow missed it in Wikipedia.

EPT31 wrote:
I can't read the Georgian alphabet.

It's very simple. :) There's one-to-one match between sounds and letters. If you know it sounds exactly like the Russian word then you already know at least 5 letters.


აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
Харбин Хэйлунцзян 1
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:11:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2015
Posts: 999
Neurons: 313,060
Location: Dzerzhinskiy, Moskovskaya, Russia
thar wrote:
Gets a bit rotten and stinky somewhere around Samarkand!Silenced

By the way when dried it is still delicious and probably could make it to England.:




აბა ყვავებს ვინ დაიჭერს, კარგო? გალიაში ბულბულები ზიან.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:15:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 15,761
Neurons: 63,007
Yeah, but dried does not mean indestructible. Think I would still think it a long trip, many stages. It was a trading route, not a single transport. More to the point, though, that is a lot of effort to transport dried fruit to Europe. I doubt the economics of it would make sense.
georgieporgie
Posted: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:10:37 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2017
Posts: 61
Neurons: 303
Romany wrote:

Xap - it's unlikely that we called it anything.
That's most assuredly true. Whistle
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.